Yearly oil change-begining or end of Season ?

[markw]

I change my oil yearly as I don't do enough mileage to need more than this ,prob only 2-3000 mls PA and despite this being less than the recommended interval I at least "feel" confidant that the oil is up to the job ,but here's the question -is there a benefit in doing this at the beginning of the riding period or at the end ? or put another way ,is it better to have new oil put in for over winter and use this for the next riding period or change the oil at the start and leave in over Winter ? Perhaps due to the low mileage of the oil there is not much to be gained by either method but for those that do more mileage what do you do? I should add that I usually don't just do short hops so the oil always gets up to temperature,and finally , if it is changed after the Winter would it be better to do this cold as I do not start the engine throughout the winter so it has pretty much drained into the sump as much as its going to...Cant remember ever seeing any advise on this.....   

[Spuddy]

END. So contaminants don't build up / stay in the engine over winter.

[markw]

Well that's what I would have thought regarding any oxidants sitting over winter and presumably any condensation into the new oil will be harmlessly burnt of on first run (kept in decent garage but still expect there to be some..). :)

[John Ulrich]

I owned a Yamaha with a crankcase window for oil level.  One winter I got lazy and left "dirty" oil in it, I was rewarded with a white scum line on the sight glass the next spring.

[Kev m]

I would vote end, or neither, I.e. change it whenever the year mark is. As the op wondered, the mileage is probably not enough that either matters.

[kingoffleece]

By-products of combustion are in your oil.  Included are corrosive chemicals and acids.
You don't need to leave this in your engine over any extended layoff.  I've never known a professional mechanic who puts up any machine with anything other than fresh oil-and most other fluids if needed.  Also, it goes without saying that starting and letting it "warm up" every month or so is a bad practice.  You'll never get to the temps needed to vaporize the water vapor created by combustion.

[pete mcgee]

If it makes you feel better change the oil before winter storage, and that would in all probability would be the right thing to do.
I am currently in the process of pulling down a 1977 R100RS that was last run in july 1993 and then parked and left with the oil it had in it at the time.
I have found no corrosion or pitting on the crank, rings and only a rust stain on the top of the bores where it wasnt covered by the piston.
No white cheeze or water in the sump either and the oil still had lubricity.
Having said that Australia is generally warmer and drier than a lot of your areas, but it did spend 7 of thse years in a sub tropical area 7 miles from the ocean.
So your engine wont disolve over 1 winter if you dont change your oil, but its a half an hour out of your life for piece of mind, change it.
Cheers.

[Kev m]

By-products of combustion are in your oil.  Included are corrosive chemicals and acids.
You don't need to leave this in your engine over any extended layoff.  I've never known a professional mechanic who puts up any machine with anything other than fresh oil-and most other fluids if needed.  Also, it goes without saying that starting and letting it "warm up" every month or so is a bad practice.  You'll never get to the temps needed to vaporize the water vapor created by combustion.

The acids are neutralized by the oil additives.

If acids ARE there (I.e. the additive package is used up) then the damage is already done.

The oil additives don't know if it is winter layup or summer.

And now you know a professional mechanic who doesn't change the oil before winter if the year isn't up.

[kingoffleece]

There you have it.  First time for everything.

[kingoffleece]

http://motorcycles.about.com/od/motorcyclemaintenanc1/ss/Winter_Storage_2.htm

This will add to the conversation.  I'm not buying that oil has a base that will counteract the acidity produced by combustion.
I'll find a petroleum engineer who'll confirm that point, or not.

[Stevex]

Always change oil and filter before lay up; why would you leave dirty oil in an engine that's going to sit for months?

[rodekyll]

Always change oil and filter before lay up; why would you leave dirty oil in an engine that's going to sit for months?

Agreed.  It makes much more sense to let the new oil get precontaminated with water and leached out acids all winter so you can ride all summer, confident that while it wasn't running the oil was clean.

I change mine by the odometer and as part of my spring cleaning.  (retired certified, professional mechanic)

[Kiwi_Roy]

One option not discussed is to drain the oil and leave empty, I know a couple of guys that do that.

Me, I keep the bikes ready to go all year around, try to get out at least once a week, just change the oil when I remember

[Stevex]

Agreed.  It makes much more sense to let the new oil get precontaminated with water and leached out acids all winter so you can ride all summer, confident that while it wasn't running the oil was clean.

I change mine by the odometer and as part of my spring cleaning.  (retired certified, professional mechanic)

Pre contaminated with water...in a heated garage? Leached out acids...from where? The old oil you've left in your engine over winter, or maybe a miniscule amount from my old oil, that's been absorbed into my clean oil over winter.   (Qualified aeronautical engineer...still working)

[rodekyll]

Pre contaminated with water...in a heated garage? Leached out acids...from where? The old oil you've left in your engine over winter, or maybe a miniscule amount from my old oil, that's been absorbed into my clean oil over winter.   (Qualified aeronautical engineer...still working)

Thanks, Steve -- that's my point.   :)

[Kev m]

http://motorcycles.about.com/od/motorcyclemaintenanc1/ss/Winter_Storage_2.htm

This will add to the conversation.  I'm not buying that oil has a base that will counteract the acidity produced by combustion.
I'll find a petroleum engineer who'll confirm that point, or not.

It's oil 101.

Byproducts of combustion (that reach oil from blow-by) react with moisture to create acids.

This happens ALL THE TIME in usage.

Parts of the additive packages of all oils are there to neutralize said acids.

Types of service (normal vs. severe, and the related differences in time and mileage recommendations are largely based on predictions for how much of this will occur and when it will be necessary to change the oil or risk damage).

Steve - I don't know about your winter, but mine isn't anywhere near 6 months. Even so, don't you leave "dirty" oil in your motor for 6 months (or longer) when it's NOT winter? what do you think the difference is?

Now RK et al - I'm NOT suggesting that if you're already at 10 months and 4k miles (on say a 5k recommended interval) that you leave that oil in the motor for another 4-6 months of winter (assuming you have such).

But on the flip side, if you changed the oil in say JUNE and only have 2-3k miles on the oil since (and again, a recommendation that is 5-6k), and winter = 2 or 3 months. Then WHAT ADDITIONAL ACIDS ARE GOING TO FORM? FROM WHAT?

Again, everyone's circumstances vary. Maybe some bikes will be stored in a place where temperature swings will be constant leading to condensation and the introduction of new moisture.

I'll tell you that in the only 2-3 months my bikes get laid up for winter there MAY have been condensation in the garage ONCE. The rest of the time moisture was low to non-existent and temperatures were steady.

YMMV - but there is a reason manufacturers give a mileage OR time recommendation, and if you're no where near it come winter, then I still say you don't HAVE TO change the oil.

That's not to say that you can't time it so your year is up each year at the end of the season, and if that's the case, then go for it.

Kiwi R - I don't understand empty. Though I guess as long as you ran the motor and distributed oil on the important surfaces before draining you COULD in theory do that.... but I don't see the benefit.

[dilligaf]

Always change oil and filter before lay up; why would you leave dirty oil in an engine that's going to sit for months?

:+1  :BEER:
Matt

[Stevex]

Steve - I don't know about your winter, but mine isn't anywhere near 6 months. Even so, don't you leave "dirty" oil in your motor for 6 months (or longer) when it's NOT winter? what do you think the difference is?

Kev, my winter varies but generally its between 4 and 5 months. That's how long my bike's are laid up for; I'd rather they sit for that long with clean oil in their engines than dirty oil. As for summer, well that's 7 to 8 months when my oil get progressively more dirty but there's no way round that unless I decided to do an oil change every month!
I just maintain my bikes to what I consider best engineering practice, within financial reason(ish); and it gives me a warm feeling inside :)
This winter I replaced all the Honda's fluids (engine / brakes / coolant / forks), re greased the swing arm bearings, cleaned the chain, fitted a grease nipple to the head stock and filled it with grease. I feel good about that.

[Kev m]

Steve that's perfectly reasonable, as long as you recognize that generally speaking that dirty oil does nothing in January to your bike that it wouldn't do in July.

[Lannis]

One option not discussed is to drain the oil and leave empty, I know a couple of guys that do that.

Oh, ouch.  I know what would eventually happen to ME if I made a practice of that every year .....  :o

Lannis

[John Ulrich]

One option not discussed is to drain the oil and leave empty, I know a couple of guys that do that.

Don't forget to refill in the spring.  Apparently I did that with my trusty Honda lawnmower.  I could not believe it.   :'(

[oldbike54]

 OOOOH goody , an oil thread  ;D Better than a MGNOC thread  :BEER:
 
  Dusty

[slowmover]

As my brain frequently misfires, Kev's logic is always enjoyable to observe.