Stelvio CARC failure in Oz AND South Africa

[jacksonracingcomau]

Yes, as far as I could see. Would even slight damage be visible?

Yep, theory was good but Wayne destroying one without breaking swinging arm is pretty good test.
I've destroyed them too, mustn't blame the girl, it's the springs I should've changed. no further damage to the ol dunger
(broke more than one shock in it's life too, but never 2 at once).

Still not impossible it rock bottom just a few times really, really hard but I'm going off that idea,  metallurgist's view on crack / break should be on dealer, importer or factory's agenda.
What's official response like ?

[Guzzistaracing]

No matter of the the load the swingarm should not fail in any case!!

[sib]

Well, it's clear that Moto Guzzi has been unloading their defective reject products to backward third world countries like South Africa, Australia and Canada.  I think we're safe in the US of A as long as we remain in the first world.

[pauldaytona]

No, it's the right thing to do and it's also arse-covering. If I think there might be a problem and I've alerted the 'Powers That Be' nobody can complain I didn't pass on information. Arse Covered! An email trail is a useful thing.

And if there is a next case, it will be hard for them to do if it was the first case. Examining failed parts is a science. So I hope they do that serious with the one from SA

[MotoZA]

What's official response like ?

None yet, the bike only arrived at the local importer today. And they're not the original importers, it switched hand a year or two ago. Will keep this forum posted about the response.

[Chuck in Indiana]

Well after reading the details of both arm failures and seeing the pictures I would be drilling out the cable mount hole to the thread root depth and would then do a dye pen check (kit price around $30au) All being well I would then cold work the hole and use a rubber well nut to hold the cable clip.
Looks fairly clear to me the cable clip hole is most likely source of the crack propogation but even if its not the above wouldnt hurt.
Ciao

I'm with Phil on this. At any rate, that's what I'd do if it were my bike.

[O]

Well, it's clear that Moto Guzzi has been unloading their defective reject products to backward third world countries like South Africa, Australia and Canada.  I think we're safe in the US of A as long as we remain in the first world.

My first laugh out loud today.  Thanks for that!

Also, I believe the proper name is Murica.

[MotoZA]

Well, it's clear that Moto Guzzi has been unloading their defective reject products to backward third world countries like South Africa, Australia and Canada.  I think we're safe in the US of A as long as we remain in the first world.

I wouldn't group Australia and Canada in the same group as South Africa
Doubt the Italians have such sinister motives.

[Wayne Orwig]

Well, it's clear that Moto Guzzi has been unloading their defective reject products to backward third world countries like South Africa, Australia and Canada.  I think we're safe in the US of A as long as we remain in the first world.

I think the alcohol in the fuel is what saved us here in the US.

[Daniel Kalal]

...drilling out the cable mount hole...
...then cold work the hole...

cleaning out the threads makes good sense.

As to cold working: Is somebody really going to contact FTI and explain to them how you'd like to cold work an unknown aluminum cast alloy and to please send the mandrel and tools necessary?  If so, it would be more economical to set up a service shop and run every CARC through.  I've no experience with the results of doing this to a casting, but the high tolerance reaming required is going to take some robust tooling.

By the way, in aircraft landing gear trunions (forged aluminum), there are a couple of design options for routing the hydraulic and electrical lines: a hose-clamp-type affair and bonding of the holder to the aluminum.  You might drill a hole to attach the landing gear door rod, but never for this sort of thing; no f&dt engineer would sign that drawing.

[WitchCityGuzzi]

Seems like if that is indeed the weak point, then the best option would have been for them to cast a boss for the attachment and drill that, rather than have it penetrate the arm.

[molly]

Well, it's clear that Moto Guzzi has been unloading their defective reject products to backward third world countries like South Africa, Australia and Canada.  I think we're safe in the US of A as long as we remain in the first world.

Joking apart, big businesses have met their match in the US in the last few years. They often treat their customers with contempt in other parts of the world but are treading a lot more carefully thanks to the Americans.
To name but a few. HSBC, BP and FIFA.

[canuguzzi]

Seems like if that is indeed the weak point, then the best option would have been for them to cast a boss for the attachment and drill that, rather than have it penetrate the arm.

Yup, many options to hold wires and hoses including a tube of some kind to make things look very tidy and offer some protection from road debris.

Question is, does MG just fix actual failures one by one, at either ownersbexpwnse irbwarranty or do they analyze the failure and apply a fix to the batch or batches directly affected?

Then, what would considered a sufficient and reasonable time to make the determination and will it be made known to owners via official communications?

[Demar]

Question is, does MG just fix actual failures one by one, at either ownersbexpwnse irbwarranty or do they analyze the failure and apply a fix to the batch or batches directly affected?

I think if it's life-threatening and a potential for numerous lawsuits, as in the case of the Stelvio/Norge suspension link, MG will do a recall and fix the affected batch.

[sib]

I think if it's life-threatening and a potential for numerous lawsuits, as in the case of the Stelvio/Norge suspension link, MG will do a recall and fix the affected batch.

In vehicle defects, as with politicians, it's not the crime that gets them in trouble, it's the coverup.

[John Warner]

cleaning out the threads makes good sense.

As to cold working: Is somebody really going to contact FTI and explain to them how you'd like to cold work an unknown aluminum cast alloy and to please send the mandrel and tools necessary? . . .

FTI?

I'm an Aircraft Engineer, we have all the necessary tooling at work . . . 
I'm sure it would be enough though to tap a Ball Bearing of the required size through the hole a few times to be honest.
Riveting does a similar job too, would be easy enough to machine up an Aluminium stud, with a plain shank to rivet into the hole, or fit a Rivnut.
 

Can anyone with a Stelvio post the allowable gross weight of the bike? Should be on a sticker somewhere.

Sticker on the Headstock of my '09 quotes [MAX WEIGHT 495KG]
Given the Bike weighs around 300, that doesn't leave a lot of leeway once you add Rider and Pillion, say 90kg each fully kitted out?
That leaves only 15kg for tools/luggage/extra fuel etc . . . 

[lucky phil]

FTI?

I'm an Aircraft Engineer, we have all the necessary tooling at work . . . 
I'm sure it would be enough though to tap a Ball Bearing of the required size through the hole a few times to be honest.
Riveting does a similar job too, would be easy enough to machine up an Aluminium stud, with a plain shank to rivet into the hole, or fit a Rivnut.

Yes Im from the aviation industry as well and when I made the suggestion I didnt think it would be all that hard either. You can buy Kline valve guide broachs in various sizes that would work but then again I like to focus on what can be done more than what cant.
Ciao 

[Daniel Kalal]

FTI?
I'm an Aircraft Engineer...

Not heard of FTI?

It is very likely (I'd say 100%), if you look at whatever cold-working equipment and mandrels and split sleeve bushings and so on that you have, they are all licensed and sourced from FTI.  These guys are the ones who have done virtually all cold work investigations and development work for aircraft use (they've got the patents).  The process was invented by Boeing (Seattle)--and FTI (then under a different name) came out of that work.  They supply all the OEMs.

I would not "tap a ball bearing through a few times."   Yes; swelling a rivet in the clean hole would help against a fatigue crack, but the reason that works is altogether different from the improvement from cold working. 

On the plus side, the hole does let you know you've got a seal leak.

[canuguzzi]

Not heard of FTI?

On the plus side, the hole does let you know you've got a seal leak.

That was how I discovered a seal leak before the rear end ran dry. There might be a better way but any fluid dripping out if those holes does give you warning something is amiss.

To clarify, the level was just a tad low but had I not seen the drip it would have gone too low at some point, even with regular checking.

[John Warner]

Never actually used the Cold Working kit myself, but have seen it in use some years ago.

[MotoZA]

Just a quick update: the local importer compiled a damage report on the bike, now we wait for Piaggio
No idea how long it will take.

[SteveAZ]

This conversation is what happens when men give up all hope of getting laid.

Where do you think engineers come from? 

When I was at Arizona State studying mechanical engineering, every night was a choice between trying to get laid or having a conversation like this one.

Usually, the latter scenario won out and eventually I graduated. I don't regret the times I chose the former though option though.....have you seen the scenery at ASU?

[Lannis]

When I was at Arizona State studying mechanical engineering, every night was a choice between trying to get laid or having a conversation like this one.

Every NIGHT?

Now you're just bragging .... you're not the only one that went to school as a young man ....     

Lannis

[kingoffleece]

Oh how I wish for every night again.............. .opps, sorry, boys.  Off topic!
What were we talking about, again?

[SteveAZ]

Every NIGHT?

Now you're just bragging .... you're not the only one that went to school as a young man ....     

Lannis

Ha ha...no read it again...

Every night was a choice between TRYING...not succeeding....or studying. My success rate on the nights I chose to avoid studying was a much smaller number than the number of nights I was out trying.

Maybe I was bragging a little ....but not that much. With my looks, nothing is a sure thing!

[Lannis]

Ha ha...no read it again...

Every night was a choice between TRYING...not succeeding....or studying. My success rate on the nights I chose to avoid studying was a much smaller number than the number of nights I was out trying.

Maybe I was bragging a little ....but not that much. With my looks, nothing is a sure thing!

Gotcha.  "Trying" all the time was a common occurrence.... 

[normzone]

Yes, but a quick google image search for ASU + women yields motivation to take a while to achieve your degree...

[Viker]

Oh how I wish for every night again.............. .opps, sorry, boys.  Off topic!
What were we talking about, again?

Shaft failure?

[John Warner]

Damn!
No like button . . .

[B24LongRangers]

Any good news from the trenches?