New engine under development for Moto Guzzi

[Americano]

Here is a technical drawing of the engine:

[fotoguzzi]

Is there a dyno chart ?

[Americano]

Is there a dyno chart ?

The engine continues dyno tuning but Steve tells me he expects at least 125bhp @ 8,500 rpm.
This is conservative. The engine could be tuned for racing application and yield much higher horsepower, however Steve wants to tune for streetability and reliability first. (I'm sitting here with Steve and Nik so getting driect responses from Steve)

[Vasco DG]

Love that timing system. Is the slave rocker using the same lobe as the inlet valve?

Pete

[Americano]

Love that timing system. Is the slave rocker using the same lobe as the inlet valve?

Pete

The drawing you see is the single cam head and there are 3 lobes on that cam. the middle lobe runs intake and outer lobes run exhaust. This is similar to the uni cam design of Honda dirt bikes, although the design of this engine head predates Honda's design.  In the 4 cam configuration the rocker arm is not used.

[Vasco DG]

Yeah, I was a bit confused by that as you'd stated it was a DOHC design.

Thanks.

Pete

[azguzzirep]

but thought it was twincam heads & water-cooled cylinders on a Guzzi bottom end, something which I think was pictured here in the past. Anyone else remember that?

I remember a watercooled Guzzi block being advertised someplace, but I cannot remember where right now.

If I can find it in my archives, I'll post it up here.

Tom

[Doppelgaenger]

Excellent work! I can't wait to see it running. Guzzi will watch this one...

[redrider]

Very well done! My experience with cooling is seat of the pants only so there is that. Have you discussed side mounted radiators and /or undertail radiators? I ask because for my Benelli Café Racer, heat is directed outward into the airstream, not at the already hot engine and me. I spent some miles on the Benelli Tornado with the under seat radiator and it also kept the heat away from the intake and me. There is no overheating issue here in the SE USA.

I really like your design a lot. Keep me posted, please.

[twhitaker]

Like the concept. Especially like the platform. Although you call it a 2004, to the best of my knowledge, in the US that color scheme was available only in 2002.

[kevdog3019]

Like the concept. Especially like the platform. Although you call it a 2004, to the best of my knowledge, in the US that color scheme was available only in 2002.

Yes... this is correct.

[mtiberio]

interesting to note... if you have ever tried to find a piston for a guzzi from another motor you will rapidly find that Guzzi has the valves pockets (and charge flow from intake to exhaust) parallel to the wrist pins. Most every motor has the valve pockets (and flow intake to exhaust) perpendicular to the wrist pins. How this manifests itself is a guzzi has the carb and exhaust fore and aft. the motor designed by the OP, the MAS12 shown above or the Motus (or even the V four shaft drive hondas, or gold wings, etc) have their intakes above, and exhaust below. You can even think in terms of just about any multicylinder, the flow is perpendicular to the crank. What this means is that if you want to adapt someone elses pistons to a Guzzi, you have to cut guzzi valve pockets on top of their already existing pockets, and it can make the top of the piston weak and funkly looking. I would think for optimal weight and strength, the piston blank would be cast different depending on where you want to place the valve pockets.

[Penderic]

Couple of pics I had...

[Americano]

Thanks everyone for your interest and encouragement.
We found out the stock exhaust crossover fits perfectly and we can make short header pipes to connect.

[cruzziguzzi]

Since I can just barely ignore the front to rear cylinder offset of Guzzis and BMWs due to their dual crank pins - I think the front cam drive on one cylinder and rear cam drive on the other would really bug me.
Is it just a developmental shortcut to commonality from left to right or will that follow through into production?
Just me I'm sure - even being one of the most outstanding motorcycle engines ever, my Yamaha XS850 drove me nuts with the left/right Jekyll/Hyde look.


Todd.

[Dogwalker]

Very interesting, thanks! ;D

For reasons of aesthetic and size, I think the better configuration in this case would be a single OHC with the camshafts over the intake valves.

[Americano]

We are getting closer to having it on the road.
Engine now in final stages of dyno tuning.
We need to install the 3D printed oval throttle body and fuel injection electronics.
We will have 3D printed valve covers with the logo and alternator cover.
(thanks to Nik Levy for the 3D printing design… Nik took a Ducati Panigale oval throttle body we bought on EBay and scaled it down and 3D printed it… custom sized for optimal flow)
Rob Cancilla is doing all the dyno tuning and flow bench work.
Steve Vergano is the chief mechanic and fabricator extraordinaire. Steve fabbed the front engine mount, the exhaust headers and is fabbing custom CF mufflers. Steve had the engine to trans adapter milled from billet.
The radiator is a curved unit off a GSXR.
A compact turbo Steve has sourced will fit neatly above the radiator behind engine mount.
Get ready for a 200 horsepower turbocharged Super Guzzi.
This engine is 34 pounds lighter than stock and shorter.
Liquid cooled DOHC 4 valves per. Engine has been road tested in a Porsche replica car but a motorcycle needs a whole different powerband.
Target date for test ride is February 2016.

[Silver Goose]

Very interesting and the product is great. What is the plan for the product? Will this engine be offered to Moto Guzzi or will it be offered as a stand alone product?

It takes a lot of money to bring a product like this to market, is there a plan for funding? Has a production target date been set? Where can more information be attained?

Good Luck

[Travlr]

Give me a V9 and one of these motors.

Mike

[Americano]

The engine has about $5 million of development investment.
The original intention for the engine was to power a small 3 wheeled vehicle but the company went bankrupt and one of the partners ended up with the engine and rights to it.
But since then the engine has gone through redesign and development by Rob Cancilla.
Investors have looked at this engine for use in hybrid vehicles.
This has fueled further development of the engine.
A full parts catalog with exploded diagrams is done for the engine.
It is ready for production and discussions with potential investors is ongoing.

For the Americano Super Guzzi we are in contact with Bruno Ghezzi who is watching our project closely.
Bruno has ties to Moto Guzzi.  Perhaps they would be interested if all tests well.
There are many potential uses for the engine but being motorcycle fanatics we decided rather than just have a static engine or a dyno mounted engine to show it would be awesome to have a working engine in a motorcycle. Moto Guzzi was the first bike that leapt to mind and I found a donor bike for the project. A perfect fit too.
Steve is in discussion with someone who is interested in building a transmission for the engine so it can be unit construction.
The transmission would utilize the latest patented technology. (Honda actually used this technology in some of their bikes however they do not hold the patent).
Lots of ideas.

[canuguzzi]

Make the motor available and to heck with Moto Guzzi, IMHO, the last thing anyone needs is an engine with this much R&D behind it only to get skunked by bean counters to make it as cheap as possible.

If this could be sold in a more or less (emphasis on more) upgrade, 6-7 grand for a complete setup would be manageable. The easier it would be to stuff in, the easier it could go to over 7.

I'd buy one. It would not need 200hp, about 125 would do just fine. I'd find a 2012 Norge that desperately needs engine work courtesy MG flat tappets and stick one in there. I like the 2013 as is.

Not about the money so if the $ moved a bit north, so what.

[Turin]

Pretty friggin cool. I want to see a video of it flying down the road!!!

[Americano]

Make the motor available and to heck with Moto Guzzi, IMHO, the last thing anyone needs is an engine with this much R&D behind it only to get skunked by bean counters to make it as cheap as possible.

If this could be sold in a more or less (emphasis on more) upgrade, 6-7 grand for a complete setup would be manageable. The easier it would be to stuff in, the easier it could go to over 7.

I'd buy one. It would not need 200hp, about 125 would do just fine. I'd find a 2012 Norge that desperately needs engine work courtesy MG flat tappets and stick one in there. I like the 2013 as is.

Not about the money so if the $ moved a bit north, so what.

We've actually thought about offering it as a kit and/or even doing the install.
Truth be told it was very easy to fit the engine in. It's smaller and 34 pounds lighter. To bolt engine in Steve fabricated new front mounts and had an engine to transmission adapter machined.
Steve fabricated the exhaust pipes. The throttle body and fuel injection system is custom.
Stock alternator mounts to the front which enables stock wiring. Radiator and mounts are required. In normally aspirated configuration the engine dynos at about 135hp which is still a significant increase over stock. Plus the bike becomes so much lighter.
If we had enough interest from people wanting a super Guzzi i think Steve would consider building them in limited production.

This engine is modular and can be made available in a variety of displacements. We are using the 1,000cc cylinders/heads.
This engine can also be made as a SOHC two valve per version for a completely different, more torquey powerband with less horsepower.
Our focus right now is getting this one on the road and working out all the kinks.  We know the donor bike chassis and running gear is good and the engine tests well on the dyno but we need to get the bike on the road and see if it meshes in the whole package.

[Americano]

PS: I have a cousin who owns a Ghezzi Brian Folgore and he wants us to put one of these engines in.
The Folgore is a beautiful bike but unlike the Guzzi V11 it has welded front engine mounts which means cutting the frame and welding new ones in.
I'm telling him to be patient and let us get this bike going first, then we can talk about modifying his Folgore.

[rboe]

So, any chance of making it a 4 cylinder and stuffing it in a sport tourer? Too much like Motus perhaps.

[HDGoose]

Retro fit to a Tonti frame could be interesting.