Fuel maps matter!

[lucian]

Fiinally got out on the griso today , 44 degrees and sunny. We've had a few rains and the roads are pretty clean again.and other than a few pott holes, it felt great. I just wanted to give a big THANK YOU to Vasco for sharing a map that transformed my bike. Oh my god, It didn't even feel like the same bike. It's an 09 and had the 01 map before, it had a shitty flat spot around 3000 revs and was snatchy at idle. Now it is as it should be, smooth all the way up through and idles perfect . I also balanced the tb's which were out both at idle and at 3500rpm's.reset tps and learn parameters and can't believe the result. Before I thought it was just guzzi character and that's the way it was going to be, man was i wrong. So thank's again Pete and Mark, I don't think that griso could run any better than it does now, it's fantastic.  ;-T


Happy Easter to all      Dave

[cruzziguzzi]

"Fuel maps matter!"

They certainly do, my Calvin still can't breath!

Todd.

[Vasco DG]

The work is all Mark's. I'm just the messenger. Which map did you use?

I'm currently running the Mistral Hi-Pipe/dbK in map and it really is a peach,even Mark describes it as his 'Best Work'. For his own bike he's even improved things further by clever manipulation of the narrow band input with a wide band sensor. I haven't ridden the result but I know that on the run up to Gloucester a couple of weeks ago he was consistently putting in a litre less fuel at every top-up. Bastard! ;D

Pete

[lucian]

Hey Pete, I believe the map was the fu 2, and i'm still in shock at the improvement. I'm running a termi with db killer. Am wondering what to expect on fuel mileage but it's definitely a lot less smelly at idle and it's still running on last falls ethanol. Tomorrow I'll get her some fresh high test and keep track and report back. Had the cooler baffle closed completely and it took 10 miles of riding in 44 degree f to get the oil up to 100 c. That's a cold blooded beast . Give Mark a big thanks  for me.

[Vasco DG]

The FU2 suffix is virtually universal. It's the checksum number that will identify it. If it is the 'Universal' cat-con+dBK map it's probably the current itteration. I don't think it's been updated in the last few months.

Yes, they are cold blooded. I found on the trip back from Long Flat in the pouring rain that even with the baffle fully closed I had to be going 70mph plus to get the oil temp up to 100 even with the baffle shut!

Oh, and make sure your valve lash is set accurately at six thou inlet and eight exhaust. You'll be amazed how much even tiny discrepancies will make to how the engine runs!

Pete

[smdl]

Same with my Stelvio!  I loaded Mark's map last weekend, and it was a significant improvement over both the stock map, and the Power Commander that was put on by the previous owner.  However, having just bought the bike, I wanted to check it over fully.  Good thing I did!  Valves were tight (below even the .004/.006!), and TBs were way out of balance at both speed and idle.  Once I got that sorted, the bike just ran so sweetly I wanted to weep!  The only remaining issue is an unsettled idle, so I started playing with CO Trim this afternoon.  -5 seems to make it much more responsive, but possibly a bit rough on on/off throttle transitions (might be imagining that).  I'll check it out further tomorrow.

Thanks, Mark and Pete for your maps and advice!   ;-T

Shaun

[lucian]

Valves are right there, I check them probably more than I should. I also put the ngk plug caps on and I see what you mean about the gaping hole above the exhaust ports. Guess I won't worry about the stock plug seals again. Also found that the breather line from the blowby tank to the air box was undone at the air box end so I reconnected it. Don't know what difference it will make, other than not dripping oil in front of my fricken rear tire! Maybe the breather system will work a little better we'll see. Hope to put some real miles on her this summer, sure is running sweet.

[Vasco DG]

Valves are right there, I check them probably more than I should. I also put the ngk plug caps on and I see what you mean about the gaping hole above the exhaust ports. Guess I won't worry about the stock plug seals again. Also found that the breather line from the blowby tank to the air box was undone at the air box end so I reconnected it. Don't know what difference it will make, other than not dripping oil in front of my fricken rear tire! Maybe the breather system will work a little better we'll see. Hope to put some real miles on her this summer, sure is running sweet.

With the breather pipe to the airbox it is important it be on but more important is to not fill the sump to above half way between the 'Add' and 'Full' marks. It has been a continuous and on-going issue that the factory specifies too much oil for the engine so the case pressurises more than it should and too much vapour gets ejected through the breather system and overwhelms the condensor. This leads to oil droplets being expelled into the airbox where, if it isn't drained often, it will eventually get drawn through the TB's and stepper gumming them up and leading to a high or erratic idle. I know I bang on about this but the vast majority of high and/or erratic idle issues I see are down to TB's that don't close fully and therefore the TPS interpretation is wrong or steppers that are clogged up with oily smeg.

Pete

[lucian]

Thanks for that Pete, I have read some of your posts on that and will proceed with caution.

[brenwin]

Same with my Stelvio!  I loaded Mark's map last weekend, and it was a significant improvement over both the stock map, and the Power Commander that was put on by the previous owner.  However, having just bought the bike, I wanted to check it over fully.  Good thing I did!  Valves were tight (below even the .004/.006!), and TBs were way out of balance at both speed and idle.  Once I got that sorted, the bike just ran so sweetly I wanted to weep!  The only remaining issue is an unsettled idle, so I started playing with CO Trim this afternoon.  -5 seems to make it much more responsive, but possibly a bit rough on on/off throttle transitions (might be imagining that).  I'll check it out further tomorrow.

Thanks, Mark and Pete for your maps and advice!   ;-T

Shaun

Good to hear Shaun , I was wondering how it would turn out .  Mine is still a little rough after initial start up . Once warmed up it improves significantly , might need some tweeking next time I'm in Chilliwack but a great improvement over the map I purchased from Guzzi Tech .

[beetle]

The 'FU2' is exactly what it seems - a not so subtle go at the haters who said I couldn't do it.

Lucian, I'm pleased you like it. The 4 character checksum immediately prior to the date in the file name is how I identify map iterations.

Shaun, I've got a new 2-Lambda Stelvio map of you want to try it. Mpg should be improved, and the ride should be smoother. It was smoother on the test ride (not by me) apparently.

Any Norge 8V owners who read this, I'm going to apply the same type of tweak to the Norge maps to improve smoothnes and mpg. Stay tuned.

[smdl]

The 'FU2' is exactly what it seems - a not so subtle go at the haters who said I couldn't do it.

Lucian, I'm pleased you like it. The 4 character checksum immediately prior to the date in the file name is how I identify map iterations.

Shaun, I've got a new 2-Lambda Stelvio map of you want to try it. Mpg should be improved, and the ride should be smoother. It was smoother on the test ride (not by me) apparently.

Any Norge 8V owners who read this, I'm going to apply the same type of tweak to the Norge maps to improve smoothnes and mpg. Stay tuned.

Hi, Mark.

Yes, please,  I would like very much to try it.  Really enjoying the bike with the way it is running, but if additional improvements are possible, then they would be more than welcome.  Will send a PM with my email again.

Cheers,
Shaun

[Waterbottle]

The 'FU2' is exactly what it seems - a not so subtle go at the haters who said I couldn't do it.

Haha I suspected as much, that is so funny  :D  Not to try and steal the thread but, Beetle have you had a look at the Cali 1400 map yet. Has anyone talked of mods to this map ?

[beetle]

Not yet. It's a work in progress, shall we say?

[molly]

A couple of years ago all we had was an expensive reflash and bolt on gizmos which often did more harm than good, then along came Guzzidiag from  Pauldaytona and his software guru.
Mark and a couple of others picked up the ball and ran with it and now riders all around the world are reaping the rewards. Amazing and a well deserved pat on the back to all concerned.

[smdl]

Absolutely  :+1.  We owe Beard, Paul, Mark, Pete (even though he won't take any credit, he has been an incredible enabler and advocate), and you, too, Dave.  Not to mention all the people who loaned their bikes for testing, and provided invaluable feedback.   Amazing work, and it represents a real treasure to the community. :bow  Can you believe that owning a Guzzi actually represents an advantage over others from a technical and support perspective?  We're becoming positively mainstream!    8)

Shaun

[lucian]

Hey Mark that map pete sent me is the fu2 -7799 nice work! Wondering how it compares to the factory 068 map?  Dave

[Vasco DG]

Hey Mark that map pete sent me is the fu2 -7799 nice work! Wondering how it compares to the factory 068 map?  Dave

I'll check to make sure that's the latest itteration in the morning, bear with me though as I've just succumbed to the flu bought back from Western Australia by my darling wife! From memory the spark map is the same or a mildly tweaked version of the 68S, the fuel side is radically different, the delta even more so but don't take my word for it I'm as sick as a dog. What I do know is that it's streets ahead of the 68S which was far and away the best of the factory maps for the Griso.

Pete

PS, just checked and yes, the 7799 is the latest G8-'Universal' Catcon/dBk map and was developed specifically for the Termi but will work with most 'Low' pipes with CatCon/dBk acceptably. Mark is gradually building up a library of custom maps for individual pipes but this takes time, lots of time, and of course 'Guinea Pig' bikes for logging purposes. In fact that is something I should post a separate message on but right now I need to go drown in a sea of mucous, please excuse me!

[MotoGoosy]

Awright you guys, what is a "MAP", and where do I get one for my 02 EV11?

[molly]

In short a  map is a serious of numeric tables used by the bike's ecu (electronic control unit) to calculate and supply the correct fuel via the injectors to the cylinders. The tables are influenced by the various sensors attached to the engine to monitor such things as exhaust CO content and engine temperature.

Someone here should be able to supply a map file via email but you need to obtain and be able to use the Guzzidiag software or find someone who can load it for you.

[MotoGoosy]

So how would one MAP the bike?  Is there a mapping tool/machine?

[MotoGoosy]

I'll answer my own question.  You need a Power Commander or similar.  Sounds like a dealer-do.

[molly]

No you need a laptop or pc connected to your bike via a couple of cables.
Read more info here http://www.grisoghetto.com/t349-beetle-tech-guzzidiag-howto
You may need to join the forum to see the pictures.

[Vasco DG]

No, you don't need a power commander.

Your bike uses the 15M controller I believe? I'm pretty sure that the Reader and Writer software will work with that but Mark and I have been concentrating on the W5AM. The software is controller specific.

Writing maps is neither simple or intuitive, so far I have only dabbled and my attempts have resulted in less than stellar results but to do this you need writing software like Tunerpro, (There are others.) that enables you to examine and modify the tables.

Actually uploading and downloading maps from the ECU is easy-peasy. Building a map? Not so much. As Dave says there will probably be someone here who can provide you with a map but it is very important that the map has been built for a machine identical to yours, any differences to things like pipes and airboxes will render that map unsuitable for it. It is also vital that the bike be properly serviced and tuned. Remapping is NOT a 'Magic Bullet' that will cure all ills. It is just a means of addressing obstacles that may present when modifications are made or shortfalls in the original performance of the factory's offerings.

Pete

[MotoGoosy]

Got it.  Thanks.

[nikwax]

Any Norge 8V owners who read this, I'm going to apply the same type of tweak to the Norge maps to improve smoothnes and mpg. Stay tuned.

I'm standing by 😀

[beetle]

Er..um...

Lucian, are you quite sure you are using the 7799 map?   ???
Um, that is an 1100 map. Full map name is Griso-FU2-4V-7799.2014.10.10.bin?  Please say no.

[beetle]

I'm standing by 😀

I need a volunteer. You it?

[lucian]

Hey Mark , that's it fu 2 -77992014 .10 10 I can flick it back to you if you like. Lol  still feels like a 1200 to me. Duh I geuss I should have noticed it says 4v

Take care of yourself Pete,  we need you!

[beetle]

Nah. PM me your email address and I'll send you the right map.