Summer van project

[flip]

Flip, I got a cheap steel carrier from Discount Ramps.  600 lb rating.  This one:
http://www.discountramps.com/hitch-mounted-steel-motorcycle-carrier/p/MCC-600/

It weighs about 90 lb and so is kind of a pain to wrestle it around in the garage.

Thanks. I've been thinking I should get something like that and I like to check to see what people are actually using.

[Testarossa]

Well . . . Got the bulk of the wiring done. 220 amp-hour battery box with a switched power line to charge from the alternator, LED interior lights and the 12v cooler installed, with the drinking water dispenser above. Gail put in some carpet and curtains, and we're headed for the Bay Area again first thing in the morning. Not carrying the Triumph this trip because it's another parental care visit. We'll be packing and moving books, paintings, prints and so on, some of the load coming back to Colorado next week.

Next, in mid September, will be the solar panels (280 watts), charge controller, inverter and AC circuit, the kitchen cabinet with sink, tanks and stove top. Travel coming up to Aspen and Vail, and Boston (by air), Connecticut, NYC and NJ in early October.

[Testarossa]

We had another good trip out to the Bay Area and back. The van was very comfortable for sleeping and the electric cooler we used in place of a fridge didn't draw down the batteries much overnight.

Now that won't be an issue at all. Today I finally found time to mount the solar panels -- 280 watts, feeding the 220amp-hour battery bank. Fiddly because of the curvature of the fiberglass roof.  Every pedestal had to be shaped to fit a compound curve.  But it's on, and with only a single through-roof penetration for the wires.  Too hot to work now so I'll wire in the combiner box, charge controller and inverter tomorrow.  Eventually I'll build a wind dam for the panels.



Then, flying to Boston on Wednesday, for a rental-car road trip visiting family in Massachusetts, New Hampshire, Connecticut, New York and New Jersey. 

[oldbike54]

We had another good trip out to the Bay Area and back. The van was very comfortable for sleeping and the electric cooler we used in place of a fridge didn't draw down the batteries much overnight.

Now that won't be an issue at all. Today I finally found time to mount the solar panels -- 280 watts, feeding the 220amp-hour battery bank. Fiddly because of the curvature of the fiberglass roof.  Every pedestal had to be shaped to fit a compound curve.  But it's on, and with only a single through-roof penetration for the wires.  Too hot to work now so I'll wire in the combiner box, charge controller and inverter tomorrow.  Eventually I'll build a wind dam for the panels.





Then, flying to Boston on Wednesday, for a rental-car road trip visiting family in Ma
ssachusetts, New Hampshire, Connecticut, New York and New Jersey.

 Everything a man needs 

  Dusty

[Triple Jim]

Is that a Fantastic Vent Fan, or did you find something better? I also have a solar panel on my van.  It's a 36 watt panel connected to the battery with a charge controller, so I can let my Fantastic fan run all day without worrying about running the battery down.  It also helps that I put a cheap eBay PWM motor controller in the fan instead of the resistors it comes with, so it draws much less current on medium and low than it used to.

[Testarossa]

Everything a man needs 

Gail says "One more thing."

Yes, it's the basic Fantastic fan. When I shopped for this I couldn't believe the options.  You can spend more than $350 on these things with remote control, thermostat control, automatic rain detection etc. It's an electric fan!

[Triple Jim]

If you want a thermostat on the fan, they work better with a separate one anyway.

[Testarossa]

Installed the combiner, charge controller and inverter, so the solar array is running nicely. First cloudy day in weeks and we're putting 4 amps into the system.  The charge controller is half-way up the wall where it's easy to read, the combiner box with circuit breaker is near the floor (it will live inside a kitchen cabinet), and the inverter is bolted to the floor next to the battery array, under the bed. When the kitchen goes in, it will have a multistrip for AC plug-ins, including the stereo. Cables will hide behind trim and the controller will move to the side of a kitchen cabinet.

[Testarossa]

Put up the last of the insulation and all the interior paneling. We now have at least two inches of insulation all around, plus the reflectix layer, which means we're ready for winter camping.



Considering how few windows we have, it's very bright and pleasant inside thanks to the light birch ply and the semi-gloss finish.

It will look a lot better with the trim strips to even out the butted panels. Shelves and cabinets will hide the remaining steel rails. Still a lot of carpentry ahead, including the kitchen and shower.

[Testarossa]

Got the kitchen cabinet built and installed the sink with the temporary hand-pump faucet. Fresh water is in a 7-gallon plastic jerry can, gray water goes into a 6-gallon can, both stowed at the bottom of the cabinet and servicable through the barn door. Drop leaf makes the forward barn door usable for coming and going.


Finish carpentry skills are improving slowly.

Eventually the big tanks will go under the bed, and I'll have a water heater and pump under the cabinet. There'll be more shelves for cookery and cupboard items then.

[Triple Jim]

It's been a long time since I saw someone build a motor home from a bare van.  The last one started out as a '50s Bond Bread delivery truck and became a very nice camper.

[Testarossa]

November progress: The solar array works pretty well even on these short early-winter days, though it won’t really support heating elements on solar gain alone. But now that I’m traveling to Vail to teach skiing, I can count on a full charge for the first overnight, and recharge off the engine alternator during the 20-mile round trip commute from the campsite to the ski area parking structure. I can park in the sun on the top level of the Lionshead garage, and if the sky is clear the system charges at up to 6 amps around noon.

And I began work on the overhead cabinetry. The wall will be the back of the bathroom. All the lower-level cabinets — kitchen and fridge housings — are 3/4-inch birch ply. To save a little weight, the upper cabinets are of 1/2-inch birch ply. I’m getting pretty handy with the jig saw. Gail bought gray fabric and is sewing up a neat cover for the ugly belt-line, now covered with even uglier duct tape. That belt line channel carries the wiring harness, so I need access to it, so the fabric cover will fasten with Velcro.



The window in the lower wall provides a sightline to keep the rear-view mirror functional.

I’ll build a similar cabinet over the fridge and continue the round-corner door theme for the large storage area over the driver/passenger seats.

[charlie b]

Nicely done.

Just curious,what do you have that will need 110V?  I am slowly converting everything in out fifth wheel to 12V, including 'outlets' for powering things like tablets and phones.

[Testarossa]

110vac is more energy-efficient than 12vdc. Consider a 30-watt single-cup beverage heater -- you can buy these for a few bucks in either 12v or 110v versions. The 12v draws 2.5 amps, the 110v about .3 amps, even including a 10% efficiency loss at the inverter. I can run the 110v device eight times longer for the same battery drain.

Yes, 12v makes much sense for LED lights, charging phones etc -- applications that draw 1 amp or less. For items running 30-watts and up (laptop computers, electric blankets, televisions etc) you do better with AC.

Bear in mind I don't have a generator. All my boondocking power comes from the 280 watt solar array, stored in a 220 ah battery bank. 

[Triple Jim]

110vac is more energy-efficient than 12vdc. Consider a 30-watt single-cup beverage heater -- you can buy these for a few bucks in either 12v or 110v versions. The 12v draws 2.5 amps, the 110v about .3 amps, even including a 10% efficiency loss at the inverter. I can run the 110v device eight times longer for the same battery drain.

No, the 0.3 amps at 120v requires about 3 amps at 12v into the inverter, so the battery drain is a little worse.  A little worse because the inverter is not 100% efficient.

[LaMojo]

Looks good! I had a Dodge Maxivan I wanted to convert to a camper but never got around to it.  I'm curious as to how you braced the perimeter of the opening once the van's roof was cut away to receive the new cover.

[Testarossa]

No, the 0.3 amps at 120v requires about 3 amps at 12v into the inverter, so the battery drain is a little worse.  A little worse because the inverter is not 100% efficient.

TripleJim: The specs sheet on my inverter says it's about a 10% efficiency loss. Why would .27 amp out require 10x more amps in? I'm not an electrical engineer, but this doesn't make intuitive sense. I'll put an ammeter on it and find out.

LaMojo: The steel roof is cut away to leave about a two-inch flange on the sides, about six inches at the rear, and of course the 30-inch shelf over the driver/passenger seats. The fiberglass top -- which is about as solid as a fiberglass boat -- has its own thick flange that attaches to the steel flange all the way around, with water-sealing adhesive and self-tapping screws about every six inches. The top appears to provide as much torsional reinforcement as the original steel roof and its cross-beams. It feels perfectly stiff and stable while driving, and is actually a lot quieter (especially with all that insulation) so I perceive it as more solid. On the other hand, it's just top-heavy enough to make you careful about sharp corners.

[Triple Jim]

TripleJim: The specs sheet on my inverter says it's about a 10% efficiency loss. Why would .27 amp out require 10x more amps in?

At 100% efficiency, inverter watts in= inverter watts out.  So at 120v, a 30 watt appliance draws 30/120=0.25 amps.  To produce this 0.25 amps at 120v, a 100% efficient inverter requires the same 30 watts of input power.  After all, it can't create power.  Since it's powered by 12v, it  draws 30/12=2.5 input amps.

Watts = Volts x Amps     Amps=Watts / Volts

[charlie b]

Ok, so needs are different.

Heating or warming things for me is with gas, not electric.

For me the tablet takes care of TV and computer duties.  It charges off of USB 5V, like my phone.

My experience with the practical uses of heating elements made for 12V is that they don't work well.  Probably due to them being really cheap appliances vs any difference in efficiency.  Otherwise a 12V heater should make the same heat as a 120V, just at a higher current.

[Testarossa]

Tags not working: At 100% efficiency, inverter watts in= inverter watts out.  So at 120v, a 30 watt appliance draws 30/120=0.25 amps.  To produce this 0.25 amps at 120v, a 100% efficient inverter requires the same 30 watts of input power.  After all, it can't create power.  Since it's powered by 12v, it  draws 30/12=2.5 input amps.

This makes sense.  Thanks for clarifying.

[Triple Jim]

You're certainly welcome, and I'm still following the thread with interest!

[charlie b]

I agree.  Want to see more as you go along.

[Howard R]

Another thing to be aware of on the inverter is that the efficiency rating is usually at full output.  For example, if it's a 300 watt output rating it might take 330 watts input to do that.  But it's not linear, there is usually an energy "floor" for running the circuits themselves (often called "housekeeping" power) that might be 5 or 10 watts. (I'm making up "typical" numbers here, but it should be somewhere in the neighborhood.)  So if the load is only 30 watts, it will still probably pull more than 33 watts from the battery bank, could be more like 40 watts.  You'll have to take some input current measurements at various loads under actual operating conditions to see what it's really doing.

Howard

[Testarossa]

I've been commuting to Vail in the van, about 120 miles over Vail Pass and thru the Eisenhower Tunnel. It's solid and stable on snowpacked roads and I can generally exceed the normal rate that traffic moves when traction is sketchy. I did have to upgrade the lighting for bad weather. Put in Hella H4 halogen headlamps and Hella 500 fog lights, a big help in blizzard conditions.

[LaMojo]

You did good! 

[mcguyver]

So envious of the cool vans you guys get over there. Over here in Australia the only thing that comes close  are grey import Mitsubishi Delica 4wd. Great looking things, but a little small and hard and costly to insure.

When I was in the states last year went to the overland expo In Arizona and was blown away by the sports Mobiles etc. Would love to Import one here but the Australian Peso is so weak against the $ that it would be too expensive. And then to convert to RHD. 

[Testarossa]

We got married in June, and will set off July 18 for a two-week honeymoon loop out to the Bay Area, up to Oregon, and home to Longmont via Yellowstone and Jackson, Wyoming.

First, I need to say that the van did beautifully in the snow over the winter. I used it commuting to Vail and ABasin, in all kinds of weather over passes up to 12,000 feet. Motored steadily and never lost traction. It can be a handful in a strong gusty crosswind, but getting through was never an issue. I even slept in it a couple of nights, and was cozy in my down bag; water inside the van never froze. And we've now put 15,000 miles on her.

In preparing for our summer trip, I built a light but stiff air dam to streamline the solar array.  I hope this will improve mileage from 16 to maybe 17 mpg. It may also reduce some wind noise. It�s made of corrugated polyethylene sheet, attached to the fiberglass roof with industrial-strength duct tape and white vinyl tape. Vented on all four sides to keep the solar panels cool when we�re not moving. Whole thing adds only about a kilogram (2.2 lb) of weight.




Gail has sewn very nice fabric strips that velcro over the gaps where I ran the wiring harness. This means I can add new lights or outlets pretty much anywhere or any time I need to.

We�ve also installed a Ride-Rite airbag system to reinforce the rear suspension, leveling the van when carrying the Funduro. Combined weight of motorcycle and carrier is about 500 lb. � 230 kg.

We�ll use the BMW on mountain-road side trips and maneuvering downtown San Francisco. (it�s a hell of a lot easier to park in the city than the van, which, at 21 feet long (with the motorcycle carrier) and 9 feet high (with the solar array) won�t fit most indoor garages.

Finally, I replaced the stock GM radio with a nice Clarion stereo system, so we can play road music full blast off CDs or our smartphones. I installed a cross-over switch so the big house batteries so we can run the stereo in camp without draining the truck battery. On Chevy and GMC vans this operation requires removing the entire instrument panel, which is one big piece of plastic. And all modern GM vehicles use a data bus system (GMLAN); to make the new radio work through the system you need a GMOS adapter box, for $50 to $100, in addition to the usual pigtail harness. The most fiddly bit is threading the antenna adapter cable through the back of the radio enclosure, and keeping all its connectors attached as you fiddle the radio into place.

[atavar]

Take the budget for any of these and divide it by the cost to stay in a 4 star hotel for a night and have pretty girl in a short skirt bring you drinks by the fireplace.  You can get a LOT of nights in a nice resort for the cost of a camper.  don't forget to include insurance, maintenance, tires and gas.. 

[oldbike54]

Take the budget for any of these and divide it by the cost to stay in a 4 star hotel for a night and have pretty girl in a short skirt bring you drinks by the fireplace.  You can get a LOT of nights in a nice resort for the cost of a camper.  don't forget to include insurance, maintenance, tires and gas..

 Hard to drive a motel room in a snow storm 

 Dusty

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

Take the budget for any of these and divide it by the cost to stay in a 4 star hotel for a night and have pretty girl in a short skirt bring you drinks by the fireplace.  You can get a LOT of nights in a nice resort for the cost of a camper.  don't forget to include insurance, maintenance, tires and gas..

Money you spend on a hotel or "nice resort" is "pi$$ed away" with zero to show for it afterwards. You'll at least get some return on the money spent on a camper van when it's sold. VW Westfalias are particularly good investments.