Please correct me if I'm wrong - Adjusting valves on a Jackal

[sknapp351]

I've read a number of different posts here and elsewhere on adjusting valves, and I did mine not too many miles ago, however I am noticing that I am getting popping when decelerating and every so often it stumbles at lower RPM or off the line. I know this isn't all likely to be related to valves, but I want to check as much as I can. I am hearing impaired, but I swear the passenger side is quieter than the driver side. ( it is a sidecar rig, so that terminology applies!  ;) )

My understanding is that I need to:
1. Start when the bike is cold as can be.
2. Jack the rear wheel off the ground. (the center stand was removed)
3. Remove the alternator cover and spark plugs
4. With the bike in 5th gear, move the tire in the forward direction and note which way the alternator bolt rotates
5. Squeeze my big butt in between the sidecar and bike and attempt to peer into a small port on the side of the transmission to look for a "s" or "d" mark while not herniating a disc in my back. (S=Left, D=Right)
6. Loosen the jam nut on top of the intake valve of the cylinder at TDC and adjust to 0.05mm and then the same for exhaust at 0.10mm. Tighten the nut carefully at the right clearance.

I know I am generalizing some steps, but is this basically right? If so, do I need to jack up the rear wheel? Can I simply put it in neutral and turn the bolt under the cover? I can roll the bike a bit to find the rotation direction. Using GuzziDiag, I have verified that my TPS is reading 3.58deg at rest and changes readings smoothly under throttle. I also bought some vacuum gauges and balanced my throttle bodies. They were only slightly off. I seated both Idle Air Bleed screws and opened them 1/2 turn and it was perfect. Obviously I had it off a bit from my last attempt without the correct tool.

My buddy is talking about a ride from Southern VA to the Hudson Valley of NY in June and I would like to feel a bit more comfortable with this before considering such a ride.

Thanks for any advice.
Sam
(edited to remove random sevens that the list kept adding all over...)

[Vasco DG]

A full cycle of the engine is 720 degrees. Are you certain that you adjusted the valves at TDC on the end of the correct, compression, stroke?

Pete

[Rich A]

Alternatively

4. Shift to neutral
5. Turning the alt/rotor with an allen clockwise, locate TDC of one cylinder. To do this, put your finger over the spark plug hole--you'll feel the pressure as the piston starts to rise in the cylinder. Stop turning. Then put a soda straw into the cylinder and withdraw it as you begin turning the alt/rotor (slowly) again--maintain contact between the straw and piston as you do this. Stop when the straw reaches it's highest point. Repeat for the other side.

Rich A

[Guzzidad]

     Only one thing you missed: make sure the cylinder is on its compression stroke when the timing mark lines up. You might be able to use an inspection mirror to see the timing marks instead of squeezing between the bike and side car. Also, I think that your engine will run ok at the valve clearances you mentioned, I like to run mine just a little looser. Something like .003 thousandths ( US ) intake and .005 thousandths of an inch exhaust.

[Kev m]

I always left mine in neutral and turned the motor via the alternator but, which I put my own TDC marks on for reference.

Despite any OEM or marks I made I like to always watch the valves in question as I turn the crankshaft (clockwise when viewed from front). If the exhaust is closed and the intake closes also as the piston comes up then you KNOW you're on the compression stroke and when it gets to the top (with both valves closed) you're at TDC Compression.

[Chuck in Indiana]

To add to this, put it in neutral, and turn the alternator bolt in the direction of normal rotation (clockwise, looking from the front) and watch the intake valve on the S cylinder. When it opens, then closes, it is starting up on the compression stroke ready to fire. Stick a chopstick, bamboo skewer, etc in the spark plug hole, and "feel" TDC. Close is good enough, but do the best you can. Set the S cylinder valves. Turn the crank 270 degrees in normal rotation and "feel" as it comes to TDC again. Set the D valves.
That'll keep you from having to dislocate anything trying to see in the hole.  ;D Certainly no need to jack it up.
Gots it?

[rodekyll]

With the sidecar and your pant size, getting a clear look at the flywheel marks can be a challenge.  I get around this by finding tdc for each pot and then marking it on the alternator rotor to an index point on the stator.  I use a piece of tape across the rotor to the stator and then dab witness paint (nail polish will do, but let it dry) partly on the tape and partly on the metal bits.  TDC is the alignment of the sharp edge of the paint marks.  Then I can do it all from the nose of the crank.  Don't forget which tdc mark is which (use different colors - red for left and green for right if you're the nautical type) and don't forget to remove the tape once the paint is dry.


A really clever points guy would also include the static and full advance marks.

[sknapp351]

Thanks everyone!

Just to be certain, if the intake valve opens then closes, that cylinder MUST be on the compression stroke, right?

Sam

[Chuck in Indiana]

Thanks everyone!

Just to be certain, if the intake valve opens then closes, that cylinder MUST be on the compression stroke, right?

Sam

Yep. When it reaches TDC. To check, both valves will have some clearance. If either is tight, something is wrong.

[rocker59]

I am noticing that I am getting popping when decelerating and every so often it stumbles at lower RPM or off the line. I know this isn't all likely to be related to valves, but I want to check as much as I can.

6. Loosen the jam nut on top of the intake valve of the cylinder at TDC and adjust to 0.05mm and then the same for exhaust at 0.10mm. Tighten the nut carefully at the right clearance.
 

Set the valves at .10mm intake and .15mm exhaust, then get back with us.

My bet is the stumble at just off idle will be gone.

[Kev m]

Yup... Cause the intake valve only opens to let in the mixture... So when it closes and the piston is rising it's compressing the mixture!

[fotoguzzi]

(use different colors - red for left and green for right if you're the nautical type) and don't forget to remove the tape once the paint is dry.

I use Red for Right and for Left, Lavendar !

[sknapp351]

I'm excited. Hopefully I can get to this tomorrow. At lunch I will have to go buy nail polish, that should get me some looks. Maybe I should start putting it on my fingers at the store. It might just be worth the looks....

Thanks again, all!

Sam

[sknapp351]

Here is a recent pic of the bike. Since I don't have kids, I have lots of motorcycle photos and food photos on my phone...




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[Tom]

Love your front forks.  Waiting for the next question on rear tire and/or u=joints. :pop

[rodekyll]

I use Red for Right and for Left, Lavendar !

So you can't laugh at me for the bike my daughter made me paint purple any more. ;D

[sknapp351]

Love your front forks.  Waiting for the next question on rear tire and/or u=joints. :pop

I just had the rear wheel re-laced and a new tire put on. I went with the same tire that was on the bike, as I didn't find too many options in that size. I haven't even thought about u joints yet....


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[twhitaker]

FWIW, the popping on deceleration is more likely attributed to exhaust leaks.

[mtiberio]

bad idle or popping could be tight exhaust valve, not a good thing...

Another tip you rarely hear... Adjust the left cylinder first, then you only have to turn the crank 270 degrees to get the right to TDC compression.

[Kiwi_Roy]

FWIW, the popping on deceleration is more likely attributed to exhaust leaks.

I chased exhaust leaks on my EV but in the end the popping was caused by too lean a mixture.
If it still pops after doing the valves etc. try adjusting the brass screw beside the P8 ECU plug about 1/4 turn CCW from memory.

[Rich A]

A tip: I cut a slot in the short end of an 8 or 10 mm allen wrench with a Dremel, and I use that homemade tool to turn and hold the adjuster. Simple and works nicely.

Rich A

[Kev m]

I chased exhaust leaks on my EV but in the end the popping was caused by too lean a mixture.
If it still pops after doing the valves etc. try adjusting the brass screw beside the P8 ECU plug about 1/4 turn CCW from memory.

My Jackal (maybe all?) didn't have that screw.

[Kev m]

A tip: I cut a slot in the short end of an 8 or 10 mm allen wrench with a Dremel, and I use that homemade tool to turn and hold the adjuster. Simple and works nicely.

Rich A

Duh, genius so often evades me!

[Chuck in Indiana]

I just had the rear wheel re-laced and a new tire put on. I went with the same tire that was on the bike, as I didn't find too many options in that size. I haven't even thought about u joints yet....


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That tire *might* last 3K miles. I doubt it, though. Your first mod should be to put a 7:33 rear drive on it to save your clutch. Just MHO. That's a heavy rig.

[rocker59]

That tire *might* last 3K miles. 

Looks like a Metzeler ME880 on the front.  If that's what's on the rear, it should last more than 3k, no?

[sknapp351]

I am pretty sure that my ECU does not have the mixture adjustment screw. It is a 15M or something like that, I think. I wanted to consider a car style rear tire, but with the 17" wheel on the Jackal, I couldn't find any available. I know I put a bit over 3k on the bike since I bought it, and the tire I replaced was on it before I had it. Both Tires are Metzlers, so I will see what to expect for milage on tire wear.

I am definitely curious about the rear dive. I don't know what is in there currently, but assume it is stock. The bike accelerates well with just me on it, but once I load up the car it drags taking off.

Sam

[mtiberio]

A tip: I cut a slot in the short end of an 8 or 10 mm allen wrench with a Dremel, and I use that homemade tool to turn and hold the adjuster. Simple and works nicely.

Rich A

there was a spanner in the tool kit for holding the valve adjusting screw, and it worked on the aft end of the clutch pushrod as well...

[scra99tch]

The popping on decel was cured by me only turning out the idle screws 1/8 of a turn.  If idle drops too low then you will need to adjust the co mixture. 

[sknapp351]

So, good and bad news. The exhaust valve on the right side was very tight. I couldn't get the feeler gauge under it at all. All the other valves were fine. After adjusting that one and rechecking it 15 times, I buttoned it back up and went for a short run up the road. No popping at all. I didn't go far at all because there are too many furry cloven-hoofed road blocks around here to ride in the dark. Tomorrow is calling for Thunderstorms, but Sat looks beautiful. I'll take it for a longer ride then, warm it up, and see how it performs.

Thanks again for all the advice. I forgot nail polish, so will mark it next time, but setting tdc with the alternator cover off was easy. Also, now I know where the alternator is. Win, win.

Sam


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[rodekyll]

When you say 'tight' do you mean some rattle but not enough to get the feeler gauge into, or no lash at all?  (very different cases)