Author Topic: ANZAC Day.  (Read 5377 times)

Offline johnr

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ANZAC Day.
« on: April 25, 2015, 12:26:49 AM »
I feel like a bit of a share here with my overseas friends.

Anzac Day is the memorial day for New Zealand and Australia.

This year it is a bit special as it marks the 100th anniversary of the WW1 landing on the Gallipoli Peninsular in Turkey in a doomed attempt to open the Dardinelle straights to allied shipping.

For this effort the forces of Australia and new Zealand were combined to form the ANZACs (Australia New Zealand Army Corp) The landings were done in conjunction with British elements.

It was a hell of a fight lasting for quite a few months with very heavy casualties on both sides.  While the objectives of the landings were not achieved the net result was the maturation of both New Zealand and Australia as independent countries as well as the end of the Ottoman Empire and the formation of modern Turkey.

It's an important day for us and thousands of people have made the pilgrimage to  Gallipoli for memorial services where they have been very warmly welcomed and looked after by the Turks.

The day is used now to remember all the war sacrifices that we have been involved in up to the present day.

I thought the best way to share was to give an idea of one families involvement. Mine.
It is entirely typical.

My Grandfather.
Major S Rice shortly after his return from WW1. He was not involved in the Gallipoli campaign but managed to leave one of his legs on the Somme.


My Uncle
Capt. M. Rice  MC. Pictured before going overseas in WW2. Served in Greece (where he recieved the Military Cross) and Crete. Killed in Crete during the attack on the Marleme airfield.  He was married with two children.


My father.
Major R. Rice. (on the left) Pictured some where in the Pacific . WW2. (part of a group picture with some of his men). He told me he was a bit pale because he had just spent a lot of time in the jungle. Some how he survived the Pacific war.


My mother.
Lt. J. Barnett photographed in Italy towards the end of the European  war. She served there and before that on hospital ships as an army physiotherapist.
 

I thought about including myself but decided not to as though I spent 8 years in the Territorial Army the war of the time was Vietnam, and I really did not wish to be involved in that one. (All New Zealanders who went to Vietnam were volunteers and regulars)

Right. posting this and will come back and edit spelling mistakes. I hope it is well received.
« Last Edit: April 25, 2015, 12:45:18 AM by johnr »
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Offline Kiwi_Roy

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Re: ANZAC Day.
« Reply #1 on: April 25, 2015, 12:40:15 AM »
Thanks Johnr,
                   I had an Uncle who was at Gallipoli, although he was wounded and shipped back to England he survived the experience.
My Dad was with Monty in Egypt and Fryberg in Italy.
 
I was also in the army 14th intake.
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Offline pete mcgee

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Re: ANZAC Day.
« Reply #2 on: April 25, 2015, 04:18:18 AM »
My grand father fought on the western front, got gassed, survived and thankfully came home and eventually started a family.
Over here the ANZAC legend is at fever pitch and for me its bordering on arrogance, led as usual by the media.
Strange that 2 countries celebrate/commemorate a sound military defeat as the starting point of our respective national comming of age, perhaps it justifies the carnage and useless loss of life.
To me its a day of remembrance and contemplation or the shear numbers of people that have died in conflicts over the last 100 years, and a few drinks with old comrades in arms.

As much as Aussies and Kiwi's beleve in a fair go for all, I often wonder if it is in our national idiom to forgive an invader as the Turks have done,

In 1934 Atatürk wrote a tribute to the Anzacs killed at Gallipoli:

Those heroes that shed their blood and lost their lives ... You are now lying in the soil of a friendly country. Therefore rest in peace. There is no difference between the Johnnies and the Mehmets to us where they lie side by side here in this country of ours ... You, the mothers who sent their sons from faraway countries, wipe away your tears; your sons are now lying in our bosom and are in peace. After having lost their lives on this land they have become our sons as well.

War is easy, peace is hard, we need more work on our peace skills.

They shall grow not old, as we that are left grow old;
Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning
We will remember them.
Lest we forget.

« Last Edit: April 25, 2015, 06:00:04 AM by pete mcgee »
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Offline Markcarovilli

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Re: ANZAC Day.
« Reply #3 on: April 25, 2015, 05:24:51 AM »
Gentlemen

Thanks for sharing and the history lesson....

Mark

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Re: ANZAC Day.
« Reply #4 on: April 25, 2015, 06:56:03 AM »
Thanks, your family history adds to the impact of reading about that war.

I was just reading about Gallipoli yesterday. Staggering amount of killed and wounded.
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Offline Aaron D.

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Re: ANZAC Day.
« Reply #5 on: April 25, 2015, 08:20:36 AM »
Ataturk was quite the man, in many ways.

My thoughts to all of your countrymen. I learned about Gallipoli from the song about it-in the US it was sung by Priscilla Herdman, but I believe it was writtn by Eric Bogle. "The Band Played Waltzing Matilda"

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Re: ANZAC Day.
« Reply #6 on: April 25, 2015, 08:49:11 AM »
Most of my family served in the military and, like you, I am very proud of them.  I still have a granddaughter on active duty with the Air Force.  ;-T  :BEER:
Matt

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Re: ANZAC Day.
« Reply #7 on: April 25, 2015, 08:55:38 AM »
Johnr,

Thank you so much!  Blessings upon your family and the great nations of Australia and New Zealand.

I have studied WW I history with a passion for decades.  Gallipoli is one of the most pivotal decisions and invasions of the war.  Although it was a stalemate, lessons learned helped immensely in WW II, in Normandy and other beach invasions. 

My great Uncle Isaac Lee Brown (my middle name is also Lee)  is buried in Bony, France.  At age 21 he was KIA as part of Pershing's AEF.  He was a combat railroad engineer over run by one of the last German counter assaults in early 1918.  I hope some day to visit his grave.

The echos of previous generations can still be heard, if one will simply turn an ear, and listen closely.

Never forget.

Offline Sheepdog

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Re: ANZAC Day.
« Reply #8 on: April 25, 2015, 09:28:11 AM »
Respect...
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Offline johnr

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Re: ANZAC Day.
« Reply #9 on: April 25, 2015, 09:33:02 AM »
Quote
As much as Aussies and Kiwi's beleve in a fair go for all, I often wonder if it is in our national idiom to forgive an invader as the Turks have done

I find that quite wondrous too Pete and have thought about it quite a bit. The only thing I can think of is that we must have gained their respect. It's a two way thing too. We have a memorial to Ataturk above a bay that closely resembles Suda Bay near Wellington.

My father finally got to see parts of the classical world in 1976 (he was an architect and had been trying to get there when he was sent to the Pacific) and this included a visit to Turkey. He said his RSA badge (Returned Serviceman's Association) opened doors for him all over Turkey.
« Last Edit: April 25, 2015, 09:33:32 AM by johnr »
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Offline Bill Hagan

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Re: ANZAC Day.
« Reply #10 on: April 25, 2015, 09:52:39 AM »
Gentlemen

Thanks for sharing and the history lesson....

Mark

Exactly.

God bless them all.

Bill

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Offline jbell

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Re: ANZAC Day.
« Reply #11 on: April 25, 2015, 10:30:50 AM »
Salute to all brothers and sisters in arms.
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Offline grebmrof

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Re: ANZAC Day.
« Reply #12 on: April 25, 2015, 11:05:20 AM »
Thank you for posting that.
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Offline Spuddy

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Re: ANZAC Day.
« Reply #13 on: April 25, 2015, 12:01:32 PM »
"Lest we forget..."
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Offline drums4money

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Re: ANZAC Day.
« Reply #14 on: April 25, 2015, 12:02:17 PM »
hypocrite, four flusher, snake in the grass, just a swindler and wolf in sheep's clothing...liar

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Re: ANZAC Day.
« Reply #15 on: April 25, 2015, 04:51:30 PM »

(snipped)

In 1934 Atatürk wrote a tribute to the Anzacs killed at Gallipoli:

Those heroes that shed their blood and lost their lives ... You are now lying in the soil of a friendly country. Therefore rest in peace. There is no difference between the Johnnies and the Mehmets to us where they lie side by side here in this country of ours ... You, the mothers who sent their sons from faraway countries, wipe away your tears; your sons are now lying in our bosom and are in peace. After having lost their lives on this land they have become our sons as well.

(snipped)

What beautiful words.  It's hard for me to accept that they came from a muslim.  I worked with them for 4 yrs. in Saudi Arabia and the above is so completely uncharacteristic.  This man was an aberration.  God bless him.

Offline injundave

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Re: ANZAC Day.
« Reply #16 on: April 25, 2015, 04:54:51 PM »
Hi John,

My grandfather and uncle both survived the Somme but were never quite the same again. And, at the age of 42, my dad enlisted and went to Egypt. He fought at Tobruk, Sidi Rezegh and El Alemein and went on to Greece before being invalided home, very ill. I went to an Anzac service here yesterday with my wife. She was wearing her late dad's Queen's Service Medal and his Serving Brother of the Order of St John. I had grandfather's, uncle's and dad's medals with me.

We will remember them.
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Re: ANZAC Day.
« Reply #17 on: April 25, 2015, 04:59:33 PM »
Thanks, your family history adds to the impact of reading about that war.

I was just reading about Gallipoli yesterday. Staggering amount of killed and wounded.

Compared to the loss of life on the Western front the Dardanelles campaign was a drop in the ocean. That is not in any way meant to demean the sacrifice of those who served there but the numbers lost on both sides at places like Ypres and the Somme are so large as to be incomprehensible. It isn't until you actually go to those places where you can come over a low rise in the road and suddenly, stretching out in front of you, literally for mile after mile, are simply rows of white crosses, hundreds and hundreds of thousands of them, that it really dawns on you the absolute and catastrophic enormity of the failure of the politicians and diplomats of that generation.

How many Shakespeares or Einsteins were lost forever in that pointless conflict whose only true legacy was to lay the groundwork for the other great, failed political doctrines of the 20th century, Communism and Facism?

Well may we say 'Lest we forget'!

Pete

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Re: ANZAC Day.
« Reply #18 on: April 25, 2015, 06:22:36 PM »
             Perhaps it is my age but the entire subject has become too sad for me to contemplate.
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Re: ANZAC Day.
« Reply #19 on: April 25, 2015, 10:31:16 PM »
Hiya Johnr

Had ANZAC Day with ex pat vets, and Thai military in Northern Thailand..

Offline johnr

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Re: ANZAC Day.
« Reply #20 on: April 25, 2015, 10:36:16 PM »
Compared to the loss of life on the Western front the Dardanelles campaign was a drop in the ocean.   etc.
Pete

While I quite agree with everything you said there Pete, proportion needs to be taken into account. At the time of WW1 the entire population of the country totaled just on 1 million.  (It's only just gone past 4m today and even that is about 1m too many in my opinion) NZ casualties in WW1 were 95%!  Those killed equaled 10% of the total population!   This of course had a massive effect on the country. Whole towns disappeared.

The waste of humanity in a war is a given. The flow on effect from a life can lead to huge effects and contributions. That too is a given, every life is precious.

But as long as two children in a playground have the ability to come to blows, there will  be adults who try to solve their problems with violence. As long as those adults exist, it follows there will be national versions of the "punch up".  Sad really.

(of course the 1918 Flu pandemic made a fairly determined effort to catch up with war casualties doing in another 8600 people in two months and that didn't help much either.)
« Last Edit: April 27, 2015, 09:56:50 PM by johnr »
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Offline johnr

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Re: ANZAC Day.
« Reply #21 on: April 25, 2015, 10:41:25 PM »
Hiya Johnr

Had ANZAC Day with ex pat vets, and Thai military in Northern Thailand..

Hi Maaka. I saw that there had been ceremonies there. I watched the NZ ceremony on Chunnack Bair live on TV. I was amazed at the number of other nations that had felt the need to take part in the form of representatives and wreaths etc.

(there was also a Navy girl that set an old mans heart beating somewhat)
« Last Edit: April 26, 2015, 09:30:28 AM by johnr »
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Offline johnr

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Re: ANZAC Day.
« Reply #22 on: April 25, 2015, 10:49:03 PM »

(snipped)


What beautiful words.  It's hard for me to accept that they came from a muslim.  I worked with them for 4 yrs. in Saudi Arabia and the above is so completely uncharacteristic.  This man was an aberration.  God bless him.

Could be that it's the Turks who are a bit different.
« Last Edit: April 25, 2015, 10:49:59 PM by johnr »
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Maaka

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Re: ANZAC Day.
« Reply #23 on: April 26, 2015, 11:01:17 PM »
oyiiiiiii John you old bugger...
them Thai gals know how to wear a tight fitting inform, I can tell you..
yes, some of the fella's go over to the River Kwai every year..
anyway
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Offline oldbike54

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Re: ANZAC Day.
« Reply #24 on: April 26, 2015, 11:23:54 PM »
 Thanks John , easy to forget the huge sacrifices made by our brothers from down under . You come from stout stock .

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Re: ANZAC Day.
« Reply #25 on: April 27, 2015, 12:06:05 AM »
Thanks for that posting John. As you said, Anzac now almost serves as a remembrance of all service people and their sacrifice. I now see where your army streak comes from.

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Offline leafman60

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Re: ANZAC Day.
« Reply #26 on: April 27, 2015, 06:46:01 AM »
ANZAC Day is normally referring to the terrible disaster encountered by Allied Forces against the Ottomans at the strategic Gallipoli Peninsula as has been pointed out.  Only Newfoundland, an independent dominion at the time, had North American troops involved there.

This military operation became infamous and was a black mark on the career of its primary architect, Winston Churchill.

http://www.history.com/news/winston-churchills-world-war-disaster


.
« Last Edit: April 27, 2015, 06:55:07 AM by leafman60 »

Offline segesta

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Re: ANZAC Day.
« Reply #27 on: April 27, 2015, 09:18:08 AM »
The bravery and sacrifice of the Australia/New Zealand forces at Gallipoli is more impressive when you realize that those young men had literally no stake in that fight. What did the Dardanelles have to do with Perth or Auckland? Yet they answered the call.
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Offline ken farr

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Re: ANZAC Day.
« Reply #28 on: April 27, 2015, 09:39:35 AM »
Johnr:


                            Wow, just wow.

                            Because of them, we are speaking english.......


                             ............just wow.


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Offline johnr

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Re: ANZAC Day.
« Reply #29 on: April 27, 2015, 11:24:43 AM »
ANZAC Day is normally referring to the terrible disaster encountered by Allied Forces against the Ottomans at the strategic Gallipoli Peninsula as has been pointed out.  Only Newfoundland, an independent dominion at the time, had North American troops involved there.

This military operation became infamous and was a black mark on the career of its primary architect, Winston Churchill.

http://www.history.com/news/winston-churchills-world-war-disaster


IMHO Churchills overall strategy (which was largely his involvement in that campaign) was sound.
Were it all went wrong was the fact that they did not have up to date and accurate intelligence prior to the attack. For example, have you seen the map they were using? It does not reflect the actuality of the ground at all!   The other thing was that the actual execution of the attack. Nothing quite like that had been tried before (with modern weapons) and many were the F... ups. There were of course a number of other factors but they I believe were the two main ones.
« Last Edit: April 27, 2015, 11:42:44 AM by johnr »
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