Author Topic: 2013 and newer Norge owners handlebar risers  (Read 4064 times)

Offline old as dirt 2

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2013 and newer Norge owners handlebar risers
« on: April 25, 2015, 09:46:42 PM »
after contacting Heli bars to find out if there is any risers available for the 2013 and newer Norges and told NO, and they are not going to be making any in the future I would like to come up with  what everyone would like to see in a new riser.
The following is some of my thoughts
1. I would like about an inch more rise
2. a couple degrees off the sweep back, so your wrist is a bit more straight versus so much bend to the inside.
3. a better space for the master cylinders line fitting so you can rotate the bars to get the levers down some, right now they are too straight out for me. this would also enable the control switch to be rotated so they are not pointing downward.
4. maybe some vibration dampening or isolators built in some how.
5. made from billet aluminum.

also if I could get these built what would folks be willing to pay, I know they won't be cheap but I want to try and keep them reasonable.
I have access to a great fab shop that can mill down to .0025 with no problem. don't think we would need that tight of tolerances though.

Throw me some ideas Norge owners

2013 Norge
2008 MP3 500
bunch of other stuff that is long gone.

canuguzzi

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Re: 2013 and newer Norge owners handlebar risers
« Reply #1 on: April 25, 2015, 09:48:04 PM »
A search is your friend.

This has already been done.


canuguzzi

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Re: 2013 and newer Norge owners handlebar risers
« Reply #2 on: April 25, 2015, 09:50:06 PM »
Here you go, I posted this and it comes up in a search for of all things, "risers"

http://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=71248.0

Norge bars already have vibration isolators built-in, why duplicate what already exists?

Making risers costs so little and can be done with common parts off the shelf. They work too.

If they cost more than about $20, it isn't reasonable.

They go on and off quickly and can be adjusted from 1/4" to 1" rise as you like. They also bring the bars back correspondingly.
« Last Edit: April 25, 2015, 09:57:23 PM by Norge Pilot »

canuguzzi

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Re: 2013 and newer Norge owners handlebar risers
« Reply #3 on: April 25, 2015, 10:12:46 PM »
Didn't mean to rain on the parade but calls went into Helibars at least twice before with the same answer. After seeing what was really a simple off the self answer instead of costly billet made parts that can't really be adjusted to suit different needs, seems like paying a lot of money for something like this was over the top.

Now, if you wanted to make the top portion of the bars to be able to be turned in or out, that would be really nice.

Offline Trialsman

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Re: 2013 and newer Norge owners handlebar risers
« Reply #4 on: April 25, 2015, 10:17:13 PM »
Something I was going to try and address tomorrow was that fitment of the master cylinder fittings preventing the proper location of the levers.  The height is fine for me but the levers need to be slanted down somehow.
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canuguzzi

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Re: 2013 and newer Norge owners handlebar risers
« Reply #5 on: April 25, 2015, 10:23:52 PM »
Something I was going to try and address tomorrow was that fitment of the master cylinder fittings preventing the proper location of the levers.  The height is fine for me but the levers need to be slanted down somehow.

If you remove the alignment tabs (grinding or cutting) you can adjust the location of the levers. If you loosen only slightly, the banjo fittings, you won't need to bleed anything.

Even doing this, the adjustment available to you is slight and the levers don't get to  what be called a normal location.

You have to be careful in the adjustment because of the heater switch, it gets very close to being activated by accident when using the clutch. What you do gain though is easier use of the headlamp flicker.

Offline old as dirt 2

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Re: 2013 and newer Norge owners handlebar risers
« Reply #6 on: April 26, 2015, 04:13:58 AM »
Here you go, I posted this and it comes up in a search for of all things, "risers"

http://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=71248.0

Norge bars already have vibration isolators built-in, why duplicate what already exists?

Making risers costs so little and can be done with common parts off the shelf. They work too.

If they cost more than about $20, it isn't reasonable.

They go on and off quickly and can be adjusted from 1/4" to 1" rise as you like. They also bring the bars back correspondingly.
I appreciate your input.
I did see your previous post on the spacers used for risers.
while you can adjust the height , still need some thing to flatten out the bar angle and get more adjustment out of the controls. taking the tab off is close but no cigar so to speak.
Where are the vibrations isolators built in at on the existing risers and bars?
2013 Norge
2008 MP3 500
bunch of other stuff that is long gone.

canuguzzi

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Re: 2013 and newer Norge owners handlebar risers
« Reply #7 on: April 26, 2015, 10:09:26 AM »
I appreciate your input.
I did see your previous post on the spacers used for risers.
while you can adjust the height , still need some thing to flatten out the bar angle and get more adjustment out of the controls. taking the tab off is close but no cigar so to speak.
Where are the vibrations isolators built in at on the existing risers and bars?


When you raise the bar height, the bars also come back because you are effectively following the same angle they have already. What happens is that the bars rise and also come back toward the rider.

No riser can adjust the controls. The problem with the control attitude is exactly that, how they are located in relation to the handlebar extensions, not the bars themselves. If you change the extensions (perhaps that is your intention, to make the rise at the extension and not the base bar) then you introduce yet another problem, the mirror mounts and their relationship to the rider. As it is, too much movement there and the very limited adjustments of the mirrors won't make it practical to use them anymore.

To adjust the attitude of the control, they need to rotate away from the rider and the tabs prevent that as does the proximity of the banjos to the extension. If you don't remove the tabs there is no more adjustment possible. Take a look and you'll see what I'm referring to.

The vibration isolators are built into the triple clamp. They are round inserts and extend upward past the triple clamp. That is why on the 2012 and newer Norge's, the base of the bars do not meet flush with the triple clamp. If they do, there is something wrong and it should be corrected. That is also why I caution anyone removing the bars not to use any penetrants, heat or oils to loosen the bolts, once those isolators are degraded you can't simply put in new ones, there is no part number for them, you will end up buying a new triple clamp.

The isolators are very effective on the 2nd gen Norge. If you are experiencing bothersome vibration, then something is wrong; either the tune of the engine is bad or the isolators aren't properly placed. The check for the isolators is simple, if there is a very slight gap between the bottom of the bars and the triple clamp, then the isolators should be good. If they are flush then they either weren't installed correctly at the factory or they have settled. If you put any lubricants there to say remove the bars, then that would cause them to eventually sink flush.

Here is what I think is still needed as far as handebar adjustment are concerned:

1. Remove the tabs because unless you do that, making some smaller adjustments to the control isn't possible, the banjos prevent that.

2. Put in a rake adjuster between the bar extension and the bar bases (the risers or part that comes up from the triple clamp) so that the rider can pull the ends of the bars inward or outward as they see fit.

3. A bonus would be to allow the bar end to rotate independent of all other adjustments to flatten the attitude of the grab portion of the bars in relation to the ground. That really can't be accomplished through the risers at the base of the bars because they are two completely independent adjustments and if you try to do it there, you also affect the rise which is counter productive. If you simply flatten out the bars without being able to adjust the bar ends inward or outward and also rotate them, one problem is traded for one that is worse.

Just my opinion though.

canuguzzi

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Re: 2013 and newer Norge owners handlebar risers
« Reply #8 on: April 26, 2015, 12:37:56 PM »
BTW, the handle bar vibration isolators are nothing less than a feat of brilliant engineering. Take a look at the conventional vibration control systems used by Honda and others. Often, they just have a stem residing in a rubber bushing in a sort of vertical arrangement. The stem goes down into the bushing which is then inside the triple clamp.

If you've ever noticed that the handlebars on some bikes felt sort of mush when you push on them, take a look and you might see that is it the rubber mount they are using that causes it.

Moto Guzzi  engineers had their act together, maybe the espresso was particularly good that day, who knows. What they did was to create a three point isolation system with each bolt going into a vibration isolator. The key difference is that with the three points being like a triangle, there is no single mount to move around in and thus the bars feel solid compared to a lot of other bikes with vibration control. With smaller isolators they were also able to spread out of contact area of the rubber (or whatever they use) over a larger surface area. What they ended up with is a very good solid feeling vibration control system that works very well.

If your Norge handlebars vibrate, look elsewhere because something isn't as it should be. Your mirrors should be nearly crystal clear at all but insane speeds during acceleration and then at least in my thinking, eyes should be front.

Whatever you don't try to make the raised portion of where the handlebars meet the triple clamp go flush, you'll have damaged something if you do.

You might want to apply loctite to the bolts but that isn't necessary either. Just torque them properly and if you still think you need some security wire the nuts in place and that should give you peace of mind.

If you have a previous generation Norge and want vibration controls, you can do what MG did for the current models although it will take some work. I've experimented with ways to reduce handlebar vibrations for quite some time and so long as one part of the handlebars contacts another part that transmits vibration, results will be marginal and all you'll really end up doing is changing when vibration sets in and what kind it is.

If you have the resources, you can remove the triple clamp and have the bolt holes reamed a small amount and have isolators pressed in. This won't be easy and it will take some experimenting to get the durometer correct for the isolator but in the end you can get very close to nearly vibration free handlebars if what you have now is bothersome. All it takes is some time and money.

Or, you can do what Harley does in some models and Suzuki used to do and rubber mount the engine to the point you can see it moving around as the bike sits are idle. Susuki had it down to a science and with their GT380 triple of many years past, they had that 2-stoke engine with less vibration getting to the rider than even Honda's wonderful 350 Four and the smoother 400 four. It was almost funny, you'd look down and at idle the engine looked out of focus as it vibrated in the mounts. You felt virtually nothing as you blipped the throttle but the engine just moved around.

Offline JeffOlson

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Re: 2013 and newer Norge owners handlebar risers
« Reply #9 on: April 26, 2015, 02:39:13 PM »
I, too, wish my Norge II handlebars were higher and closer to me. However, rather than risers, I am thinking of replacing the straight handle bar segments themselves with "S"-shaped bar segments, which would allow easy height and pull-back adjustment.
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canuguzzi

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Re: 2013 and newer Norge owners handlebar risers
« Reply #10 on: April 26, 2015, 03:01:34 PM »
Jeff, if you're making something up and can manage it, a double gimbal or Cardan will do what you want and provide virtually unlimited adjustments without looking like Helibars (JMHO, hideous).

If this helps:

http://curtisuniversal.com/

They make a size that would work, just some engineering fitting them and still having usable handlebars. A single gimbal would if you could fab up a ring affair close to the rising part of the handlebar and use a set screw to maintain the rotated position. Then something else to fix the gimbal itself and you've got it.


Offline JeffOlson

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Re: 2013 and newer Norge owners handlebar risers
« Reply #11 on: April 26, 2015, 04:00:45 PM »
^ Ah, a U-joint! That's an interesting idea!

I had been thinking of something very simple, though: just a couple of bent bars. I have not looked yet, but I like the idea of being able to rotate each bar up and away or down and back.

I wonder if there any any angled/bent clip-ons that might work. That's what we have, by the way: clip-ons! They are just mounted much higher than usual.
2018 Vespa GTS 300
2018 BMW R 1200 RT --> 2016 Moto Guzzi Norge
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canuguzzi

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Re: 2013 and newer Norge owners handlebar risers
« Reply #12 on: April 26, 2015, 04:32:19 PM »
Yeah, MG could have (done a lot of things but...) made the lower attachment point a swivel and still retained the vib isolators and that way you could rotate the entire bar to pull in or push out the bar ends. After that just make the riser portion an internal slip joint that you raise up or down (which also brings the bars back because of the angle) and you secure it with a set bolt or such.

Done.

That brings so much liability with it though, you just know someone would claim the set bolts didn't and they went down the road and discovered mid way through a turn and they had only one bar attached while the other one beat them nearly to death as the wind caught it and flapped their brains out. (imagine the visual).

The inability to rotate the bar ends for better level pull without cutting off tabs and so on is pretty lame though. Just looking at it you know they didn't just have their heads up their arses, they climbed all the way in and forgot the flashlight.

Offline old as dirt 2

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Re: 2013 and newer Norge owners handlebar risers
« Reply #13 on: April 26, 2015, 05:21:44 PM »
Yeah, MG could have (done a lot of things but...) made the lower attachment point a swivel and still retained the vib isolators and that way you could rotate the entire bar to pull in or push out the bar ends. After that just make the riser portion an internal slip joint that you raise up or down (which also brings the bars back because of the angle) and you secure it with a set bolt or such.

Done.

That brings so much liability with it though, you just know someone would claim the set bolts didn't and they went down the road and discovered mid way through a turn and they had only one bar attached while the other one beat them nearly to death as the wind caught it and flapped their brains out. (imagine the visual).

The inability to rotate the bar ends for better level pull without cutting off tabs and so on is pretty lame though. Just looking at it you know they didn't just have their heads up their arses, they climbed all the way in and forgot the flashlight.
you only need 1 hand to go thru a turn anyways.
2013 Norge
2008 MP3 500
bunch of other stuff that is long gone.

Offline old as dirt 2

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Re: 2013 and newer Norge owners handlebar risers
« Reply #14 on: April 27, 2015, 06:31:15 AM »
I, too, wish my Norge II handlebars were higher and closer to me. However, rather than risers, I am thinking of replacing the straight handle bar segments themselves with "S"-shaped bar segments, which would allow easy height and pull-back adjustment.
I have looked at that as well. can't find any that will work as the dial of the bars going into the riser is 5/8". have been contemplating doing something like Rox risers does as well.
2013 Norge
2008 MP3 500
bunch of other stuff that is long gone.

canuguzzi

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Re: 2013 and newer Norge owners handlebar risers
« Reply #15 on: April 27, 2015, 10:25:25 AM »
Someone with fab capabilities could just replace the riser part of the bars with a tube type that allows adjustment in height and rotation.

The base is pretty straightforward as you have a ready pattern so some sort of stanchion would suffice. Bead blast the finish to match or whatever and you'd have it.

Alternatively, make a swivel base, use the standoffs as I suggest and you'd have increased rise and rotation.

There is a reason why no one is doing this however.  It would be a labor of love because the time that goes into this would easily equate into a thousand dollar set of risers.

Offline JeffOlson

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Re: 2013 and newer Norge owners handlebar risers
« Reply #16 on: April 27, 2015, 10:29:57 AM »
I do have a friend with a huge CNC machine in his garage. (He works out of his home and does piece-work for larger manufactures and one-offs for friends.) Maybe I'll talk with Rudy and see what he could work up!
2018 Vespa GTS 300
2018 BMW R 1200 RT --> 2016 Moto Guzzi Norge
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