Author Topic: Dusty broke down Fuel pump not pumping. Need some suggestions. (Read 21768 times)

rocker59 · « **on:** May 14, 2015, 05:36:27 PM »

Hey all,

Relaying this message for Dusty. He's broke down in Bristow Oklahoma. Fuel pump not not pumping.

2001 California Jackal. Relays suspected.

Can anyone tell me which relay controls the fuel pump?

I'll relay the suggestions to him. Unfortunately he's 150 miles from me, so it will be long-distance help.

pehayes · « **Reply #1 on:** May 14, 2015, 05:46:12 PM »

On my 98EV, it is the furthest forward relay and fuse which control the fuel pump. There are six identical relays. Mark them with some number and start moving them around to different sockets. The numbering just helps you get it all back where it was if you don't cure the problem.

Sidestand cutout switch?

Kill switch?

Patrick Hayes
Fremont CA

Chuck in Indiana · « **Reply #2 on:** May 14, 2015, 05:46:34 PM »

I *should* have this somewhere, but I'm fixing dinner. Tell him to pull them all out, switch them around, wiggle them around, etc. Back later..

rodekyll · « **Reply #3 on:** May 14, 2015, 05:47:53 PM »

It's the two relays that sit on either side of a group of two fuses. Either one bad can cause the problem if it's a relay. He has a map on the inside of the sidecover he removed to access the relay board. Also, iirc, it's those two fuses that control the power -- one to the ecu and the other to the fuel pump. Either of those bad will cause the same problem.

Tell him good luck and he can call me for help if he needs to.

LowRyter · « **Reply #4 on:** May 14, 2015, 06:09:22 PM »

called him. he's lost all electrical power except taillight.

rodekyll · « **Reply #5 on:** May 14, 2015, 06:15:11 PM »

We got the tail light back -- now it's the starter. He has 4 and 5-post relays and is mixing/matching. He seems to gain/lose whenever he swaps relays. He has someone there with him who's scampering to the parts house for a couple more 5-post relays. I think his mix-n-match will be more successful if he swaps in a 5-post.

He's in a parking lot and has water, so it could be worser than it is.

My wiring diagram doesn't match his bike perzaxtly. I'm trying to 'interpret' it as we chat. He's hung up the phone and off to do things, so I'm leaving my phone to get some field work done -- It's 3:15P here -- I'll be gone an hour.

rocker59 · « **Reply #6 on:** May 14, 2015, 06:18:50 PM »

When I had this happen on the Nero a couple years ago, it was two relays gone bad at the same time.

He's got someone running to NAPA for a couple of 5-pin relays.

Sidestand switch was disabled previously, so that's been ruled out.

Will update when I hear back from him.

Chuck in Indiana · « **Reply #7 on:** May 14, 2015, 06:20:30 PM »

Quote from: LowRyter on May 14, 2015, 06:09:22 PM

called him. he's lost all electrical power except taillight.

Hmm, have him exercise the ignition switch..

Kev m · « **Reply #8 on:** May 14, 2015, 06:54:09 PM »

All good suggestions.... Waiting to hear about success (probably from new relays).

fotoguzzi · « **Reply #9 on:** May 14, 2015, 07:05:08 PM »

External pump? also check wiring connections on the base of the pump.. +2 on the ignition switch as one more possibility.
and the base where the relays plug in can be suspect.

Guzzidad · « **Reply #10 on:** May 14, 2015, 07:14:01 PM »

The battery has gone bad due to over-charging. It may still show 12.4 volts but it has no power. This happened to me a few months ago on an 01 EV. A digital multi meter won't show the battery is dead. But a new battery will.
Steve

Kiwi_Roy · « **Reply #11 on:** May 14, 2015, 07:15:19 PM »

If he's lost all power lights etc I suspect the ignition switch, the tail light is on a different contact
Mike, I will find something and send it to your e-mail address (I can't send it via here)

Chuck in Indiana · « **Reply #12 on:** May 14, 2015, 07:30:16 PM »

Quote from: Kiwi_Roy on May 14, 2015, 07:15:19 PM

If he's lost all power lights etc I suspect the ignition switch, the tail light is on a different contact
Mike, I will find something and send it to your e-mail address (I can't send it via here)

Yep, that's why I said ignition switch. Maybe just exercising it will make it make contact. If all comes to naught, just tie all the wires at the switch together and ride it home.

Kev m · « **Reply #13 on:** May 14, 2015, 07:50:37 PM »

Quote from: Chuck in Indiana on May 14, 2015, 07:30:16 PM

Yep, that's why I said ignition switch. Maybe just exercising it will make it make contact. If all comes to naught, just tie all the wires at the switch together and ride it home.

Yeah, I hear that, and my Jackal ignition went out on the Blue Ridge many years ago. But if it were me I'd check terminal connections first, relays next, and ignition last. And if it's ignition, he can bypass it pretty easily.

Kiwi_Roy · « **Reply #14 on:** May 14, 2015, 08:03:06 PM »

If he has no lights or horn could be ignition switch (tail lights going)
Jumper the tops of fuse 1,2,3 & 4 together this will get power back via the park switch contact.

Sent from my shoe phone!

rodekyll · « **Reply #15 on:** May 14, 2015, 08:12:37 PM »

I was on the phone with him as he was swapping relays (before trying to find 5-posters) and the problem seemed to be following the relays around. He said all the fuses had been changed (all 15a -- is that right?) but he had nothing to test them with. I think he might have had it at one point -- all systems go, he implied -- and then the starter wouldn't crank. That's when he decided to head to the store for the relays.

Those should be back by now. Anyone heard from him?

Guzzistajohn · « **Reply #16 on:** May 14, 2015, 08:44:37 PM »

2036 hrs. Our boy reports 1/2 the town is helping him out, including the city attorney. Sounds like he's well taken care of. Okies are GREAT folks! ;-T

rodekyll · « **Reply #17 on:** May 14, 2015, 08:56:59 PM »

Well my mamma used to say that when you get attorneys involved you're already a loser.

This can't be that hard. . . .

guzzi4me · « **Reply #18 on:** May 14, 2015, 09:45:12 PM »

Just called Dusty...still working on it. I'm thinking ignition switch wiring came loose.

Happened on my Giada...wire came off the cluster. Soldored it and no problems since.

Wish I was closer so I could help more...

Thanks to everyone on this board that is trying to help..

Dusty is a trooper!

The Guzzi family is a special breed...

Jeff

krglorioso · « **Reply #19 on:** May 14, 2015, 11:52:53 PM »

This may be a good reminder to replace our OEM relays with GEI ones from Pyro Dan. They are very inexpensive even with postage from Wisconsin. Dan says they are much more reliable than what Guzzi's come with.

Kiwi_Roy · « **Reply #20 on:** May 15, 2015, 12:31:58 AM »

I sent Mike a sketch.
The only two relays you really need are the ECU and the ECU Power relay, all the rest can be jumped one way or another
Get power to the petcock fuse, that will pick up the ECU which causes the ECU Power relay to pick up

If there's no power on fuse 3 & 4 jumper the 4 fuses together and you will get a backfeed from the tail light circuit.

rodekyll · « **Reply #21 on:** May 15, 2015, 08:07:50 AM »

I hung up the phone fropm talking with dusty and the town lost internet, tv, and telephone for the night. So I don't know how it's working out for him and he hasn't been able to get through to me on the phone. When communications went down he had everything functioning except that he couldn't hear a fuel pump and no starter. Anyone have an update?

Kiwi_Roy · « **Reply #22 on:** May 15, 2015, 08:57:20 AM »

Horn & Start = no power on fuse 3, I'll say again ignition switch.

This is the reason I drew the sketch above, it shows where the wires come from / go to

David, what do you mean everything was functioning?

Since there is no Start which is powered from Fuse 3 I suspect the wire from D of the ignition switch is broken or the contact has melted

Jamb a bit of wire in between Fuse 2 & Fuse 3 (with fuse in place) this will backfeed power from the Park circuit terminal A of the switch.

If you remove the start relay jam a bit of wire in the 87 socket then touch the other end on the battery it will crank.

Does Dusty have any means of checking for Voltage e.g. a 12 Volt lamp?

delrod · « **Reply #23 on:** May 15, 2015, 10:26:34 AM »

Via telephone Dusty and I did some relay swapping and apparently a broken wire was found incidental to this process. I had just gotten to the relay swapping stage when the headlight and idiot lights should have been on and were not. Apparently when the newly discovered broken wire was mended all systems went go and bike started normally. So what I do know is at least one four pin relay was inappropriately placed- that has been rectified. At least one wire which I assume was visually observed to be broken was repaired. Bike has started normally and Dusty is wheels up and headed for home and will be severely flogged if he shuts the bike down for any reason before he reaches his driveway

jas67 · « **Reply #24 on:** May 15, 2015, 10:36:59 AM »

A successful outcome! This is a great group of people. Kudos to everyone who helped! :BEER:

delrod · « **Reply #25 on:** May 15, 2015, 10:54:08 AM »

Best read on the situation I can see from 250 miles away is this. A four pin relay had been utilized in the #3 relay position having the same effect as cycling the kill switch. When the proper relay was placed the fuel pump began to run normally for what Dusty said was the first time since last nights first no start condition. If the broken wire that was keeping the headlight and idiot lights from working was also not supplying the regulator reference voltage that equals dead battery and no start. I am guessing that Dustys first move was the relay swapping if an inappropriate relay is placed in the #3 position that Moto Guzzi will never start on its own nor will the fuel pump operate or the headlight work. All of these conditions were observed . When the relays were placed correctly the fuel pump began normal operation but the headlight did not. Bike would not crank at this time. When the broken wire was repaired the headlight came on and bike started normally. My guess is broken wire led to a no start condition related to low voltage. Cascading effects of roadside repair complicated the diagnosis and the gremlin that broke the wire has been entertained and rewarded for his efforts.

normzone · « **Reply #26 on:** May 15, 2015, 11:43:55 AM »

Just a thought here...

" Dusty is wheels up and headed for home and will be severely flogged if he shuts the bike down for any reason before he reaches his driveway "

Perhaps as a fundraiser for the forum we could raffle off the opportunity to severely flog Dusty. It's not my thing, but there's got to be somebody who would pay for the chance.

Kiwi_Roy · « **Reply #27 on:** May 15, 2015, 11:45:17 AM »

Delrod

Thanks for the update.
I'm surprised there's still guzzis running around with 4 pin relays, they cause nothing but trouble.
Shuffling the relays around just made it more confusing, now you had 2 faults.

It will be interesting to hear which wire was broken.

The main thing he's back on the road
And has a tale to tell ;D

Guzzistajohn · « **Reply #28 on:** May 15, 2015, 12:04:47 PM »

It'll be interesting to see if he can make it home without stopping to talk to someone😃

rocker59 · « **Reply #29 on:** May 15, 2015, 12:08:16 PM »

Quote from: Kiwi_Roy on May 15, 2015, 11:45:17 AM

Delrod

Thanks for the update.
I'm surprised there's still guzzis running around with 4 pin relays, they cause nothing but trouble.
Shuffling the relays around just made it more confusing, now you had 2 faults.

It will be interesting to hear which wire was broken.

The main thing he's back on the road
And has a tale to tell ;D

I told him to make sure the 4-pin relay didn't get moved to a 5-pin slot.

Easy mistake to make. It happened to me a couple years ago.

And, you were the one that set me straight! :BEER:

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Author Topic: *Dusty broke down* Fuel pump not pumping. Need some suggestions. (Read 21768 times)

Author Topic: Dusty broke down Fuel pump not pumping. Need some suggestions. (Read 21768 times)