Buraucracy in action

[rodekyll]

Like I said, due to a standardization of ID at the federal level, I can use my passport, DL and CCW interchangeably for valid ID.  I cannot travel internationally (except Canada) using a DL or CCW, because while any are good as ID, only the passport qualifies me for travel.  I cannot carry concealed with my DL or passport, because while both are ID, neither is a CCW.  And I can't drive in the USA using my CCW or passport as a license.

If you're repeating your argument RE: license renewal after I've offered an official govm't website that proves otherwise, there's no point in continuing this.

[atavar]

At the very top of the SD form it says "Federal requirements have changed the documents required to obtain or renew your South Dakota driver license.
http://dps.sd.gov/licensing/driver_licensing/obtain_a_license.aspx

[screamday]

Screamday, when was thelast time you renewed? If you had to provide the b/c or passport then that license met the guideines under the Real ID Act.

10 Years ago.....and that time I did it online and renewed it for another ten years, which just came up a couple of weeks ago......I have never had to provide anything other than my current DL. Even when I moved from FL to NC to SC. That was over 25 years ago so that was before all the BS.

[vf84pc]

Nothing in that link notes any federal regulations about State drivers lic. ID requirements. The requirements are similar to NY I suggest to everybody take the time to obtain a U.S. passport it meets all the photo ID requirements. The other documents are required to show state residency. We have many people who have relocated here to work and they have had to wait until they had some bill's at their new address until they could obtain a DL and register their vehicles. Unless you are leaving the Military on separation or PCS transfer orders you need to show residency to obtain a DL.
I know it is frustrating my friend lost his wallet and was in a bind because the Utilities were in his GF's name and he had no credit cards or bill's. It took him over a month to get a new DL.

[Two Checks]

The Real ID Act states if the states do not adhere to Fed guidelines when renewing D/Ls or issuing state IDs after 3 years from the signing of the Act then those state issued ID are not recognized by FEDGOV. IOW if you were to use your state issued D/L or ID that did not adhere to those guidelines for a Federal function it would not be recognized as valid ID.

Don't shoot the messenger, that's just the way it is as in the Act and as told to me by multiple state agencies and the FAA.

[LaMojo]

Every four years the State of Louisiana sends me a renewal notice for DL.  I send them a check - a new card comes in the mail in about two weeks.  I suspect that the Federal motor voter law has something to do with the ID hassle.

[Lannis]

I'd still be interested in knowing how an illegal alien ("Alien - Not a native of the country"   "Illegal - Entered the country in violation of the law") does when he comes up to the counter at the DMV and applies for a driver's license.

"I'll need your Birth Certificate, Social Security number, and two forms of identification proving residency such as utility bills please sir".

"No entiendo.  Yo no habla Ingles."

"Ok, that's fine sir.   Please step over here for your photo, your number will be called when your license is ready."

I mean, is that how it works?    Or must they forge documents that "look" like the real ones?   Seems like that would cost some money.

It appears to work here in the US.   If you tried that in any other country in the world, you'd be in a foreign slammer forever trying to call the embassy ....

Lannis

[screamday]

I could be wrong but I believe the Feds are regulating the information that goes on the ID's, trying to standardize the information across the US. I don't think they are regulating the requirements for getting a state ID, that's up to the individual states. The new DL I got has a new type of barcode on the back, similar to my passport, that when read by any law enforcement reader, it will show all my info and my picture. The picture on the new DL is pretty crappy, again similar to my passport, and couldn't possibly be used for any ID purposes other than trying to buy liquor. The barcode must be scanned to get the original picture.

[blackcat]

The requirements are similar to NY I suggest to everybody take the time to obtain a U.S. passport it meets all the photo ID requirements. The other documents are required to show state residency.

If you have a passport this is much less painful. In my case it was still a hassle because I forgot to turn in my NY State license plates and it gave them an opportunity to collect the fine from 10+years ago. The nice lady on the phone to Albany collected the money and she said this was one of the benefits of the new Federal law.

[Two Checks]

In the case of the illegal alien....I mean undocumented voter, they don't care if their D/Lmeets Fed guidelines, they are here in violation of Federal law anyway! And FEDGOV doesn't care, either!

While I was trying to gather the needed documents to get my B/C the clerk at the License Bureau axed if I had a US passport, as that would be sufficient to get my D/L. I asked what was required to get a passport. She told me a B/C. I then axed her why I couldn't get my D/L. She said I didn't have a B/C. "Then how can I have a passport?".

[blackcat]

The DMV told me that an expired passport would work too.

[sib]

Related question:  How many of us ride illegal alien motorcycles?

[Lannis]

In the case of the illegal alien....I mean undocumented voter, they don't care if their D/Lmeets Fed guidelines, they are here in violation of Federal law anyway! And FEDGOV doesn't care, either!

I understand that the FEDGOV presently has a vested interest in getting as many illegal aliens here as they can; that's sort of a broader, political issue.

What I'm trying to figure out is what does Jose or M'fume actually DO at the DMV counter?    I mean, I've had a DOD Top Secret clearance, I've got a current passport (just renewed), I have an original copy of my B/C, I've lived in the same place for 35 years, I have a current D/L, a current CCW, I've been elected to public office and all my financial details are public ....

.... and when I go to a DMV or Post Office or Passport office or go to buy a handgun, I'm STILL afraid that I won't have enough identification, or the specific right format, to satisfy the clerk behind the counter.   

What does a person do who snuck over the border in the middle of the night, is living in an apartment with 15 relatives in violation of every rule there is ... what are THEY asked for by the $10.35/hour clerk at the government office?   

Lannis

Lannis

[Lannis]

Related question:  How many of us ride illegal alien motorcycles?

That's harder to do than people think it is.   EPA and DOT-certified models that are sold by a dealer are all legal; they came through Ellis Island and got their paperwork.   That includes non-US models that were brought in legally by military personnel.

Japan and Euro-models that aren't EPA-emissions-certified or DOT-crash-test certified would have to literally be smuggled into the country somehow, either by taking advantage of some Canadian import rule and then finding an unmonitored border crossing, or by having a friend bring on in on his boat and land it somewhere like a bale of dope.   If it comes in via a regular shipper, it's staying in the Customs lockup until you can show either the exemptions or the certification.   And you won't get the certification if it's less than 25 years old.

And if you manage to get it here and they catch you with it, you lose it.

So I suspect that there are EXTREMELY few "illegal" motorcycles here .... Wish they'd put the same effort into making sure people didn't sneak in here illegally ....

Lannis

[blackcat]

"No room for Politics or Religion debates here."

Or is this thread OK because some people like the subject matter it has drifted into? 

[Lannis]

"No room for Politics or Religion debates here."

Or is this thread OK because some people like the subject matter it has drifted into? 

I don't know specifically what  "political" or "religious" theme has got you going, but on my part, when someone describes specifically the problems they have at a government bureaucracy desk with providing them with the right ID, and I ask "Say, come to think of it, HOW does someone who has NO paperwork do it?", that doesn't seem to have drifted too far.

Lannis

[blackcat]

I don't know specifically what  "political" or "religious" theme has got you going, but on my part, when someone describes specifically the problems they have at a government bureaucracy desk with providing them with the right ID, and I ask "Say, come to think of it, HOW does someone who has NO paperwork do it?", that doesn't seem to have drifted too far.

Lannis

 :D :D :D Ok.

[Lannis]

 :D :D :D Ok.

At least I'm an "equal opportunity" thread-drift-generator.

On my own "Black Walnut Tree" thread, I'm already posting about 18th-century Maori cannibals.   

Lannis

[jackson]

That's harder to do than people think it is.   EPA and DOT-certified models that are sold by a dealer are all legal; they came through Ellis Island and got their paperwork.   That includes non-US models that were brought in legally by military personnel.

Japan and Euro-models that aren't EPA-emissions-certified or DOT-crash-test certified would have to literally be smuggled into the country somehow, either by taking advantage of some Canadian import rule and then finding an unmonitored border crossing, or by having a friend bring on in on his boat and land it somewhere like a bale of dope.   If it comes in via a regular shipper, it's staying in the Customs lockup until you can show either the exemptions or the certification.   And you won't get the certification if it's less than 25 years old.

And if you manage to get it here and they catch you with it, you lose it.

So I suspect that there are EXTREMELY few "illegal" motorcycles here .... Wish they'd put the same effort into making sure people didn't sneak in here illegally ....

Lannis

+1

[Mayor_of_BBQ]

to answer Lanis' question...  In NC, undocumented immigrants can get a drivers license if they submit to fingerprinting and a criminal background check, pass a written test, and have proof of insurance..  It has to be renewed yearly, the ID states they are not a citizen, and it will not get you on a plane or into a federal building.

I don't understand what is the big deal with giving an immigrant a license??!!?! Would you prefer them to drive illegally with no road test, no vision test, no insurance???

[jackson]

to answer Lanis' question...  In NC, undocumented immigrants can get a drivers license if they submit to fingerprinting and a criminal background check, pass a written test, and have proof of insurance..  It has to be renewed yearly, the ID states they are not a citizen, and it will not get you on a plane or into a federal building.

I don't understand what is the big deal with giving an immigrant a license??!!?! Would you prefer them to drive illegally with no road test, no vision test, no insurance???

I lived in Southern CA for 30 years and moved to South Carolina 10 years ago.  In both places, it has been extremely common to read a story in the local papers and on local, news websites where an illegal alien (licensed or not) was in a wreck and did not have insurance.  Giving someone a drivers license when they illegally came into the country is idiocy that has been pushed by politicians in their constant attempt to gain new voters if/when they can around the immigration laws, stay here permanently........ ..and then vote (legally).

Question: "Would you prefer them to drive illegally with no road test, no vision test, no insurance???"
Answer: Taking a road test, vision test and showing proof of insurance is absolutely NO guarantee that they will carry that insurance for more than one day after they get a license.  The statistics all over the country prove that point.

[Mayor_of_BBQ]

In NC, as well as SC and Cali I'd bet...  It wasn't 'politicians seeking voters' encouraging lax license laws for immigrants all thru the 80's & 90's... it was big agriculture lobbyists..  all those crops aren't going to pick themselves

[Two Checks]

Trying not to be political, but the subject is about difficulty in obtaining a D/l, and IMO that does pertain to riding m/c's.
The problem with giving illegals aD/L is the state is approving their being here illegally while people like the OP and myself have to run a gauntlet to get one.

Lannis, I know wat you mean about all the clearances, permits, licenses, etc.My son is in the same boat and just had to get his MS D/L. Getting a MS CCL to replace his VA CCL was easier.

[blackcat]

it was big agriculture lobbyists..  all those crops aren't going to pick themselves

It's just a question of time.

"What could be more blissful than lying back on your picnic blanket while a robot picks perfectly ripe strawberries for you?

Yes, we all share this arcadian dream. Sadly, it comes with a $50,000 price tag.

That's roughly how much a new strawberry-picking robot will cost when it goes on sale in Japan early next year, so start saving now."
http://www.cnet.com/news/50000-strawberry-picking-robot-to-go-on-sale-in-japan/

[Lannis]

I don't understand what is the big deal with giving an immigrant a license??!!?! Would you prefer them to drive illegally with no road test, no vision test, no insurance???

I have no problem whatsoever with giving a LEGAL immigrant a license.   Legal immigrants are how this country was built, and how it should continue to grow.

I do have a problem with someone who has already proved he is willing to break the rules, and ignore the law of the country he's in, to get anything but an armed escort back to the border when he shows up.   He's here because he is semi-slave labor much in demand by people who hire housemaids, chicken processors, pool boys, and bean pickers.  If they're not here to do it, then the damn job shouldn't get done until the employers pay people enough to take the job.

Oops, sounds like politics.   I'll make like a hockey stick now ....

Lannis

[Sasquatch Jim]

 Hey two checks, if you axed her it's no wonder you got no co-operation.

  You guys are saying E T can get a license easier than a resident?

[canuguzzi]

"No room for Politics or Religion debates here."

Or is this thread OK because some people like the subject matter it has drifted into? 

Ok folks, recently this site has become the victim of rather nefarious act ivies from outside, while sites go down they don't usually have continuing problems unless something/someone is actively engaged in trying to disrupt it.

Here is the thing, the more threads we get about political and other sensitive topics, the more trash gets attracted and then the fight is on. Its one thing to chide BMWs or Harelys or whatever, in good nature quite another to go down the road of race and immigration and related. When that happens, some very nasty people will take an interest in this site and I'll tell you now, there won't be anything anyone can do to keep it running with the resources that are available to do so.

Like many others, I contribute what I can when I can as a donor but all that won't matter if a few decide to jump on the soapbox and start making this more than a moto guzzi forum.

If the idea is to have a campfire type forum to come and talk, then lets not throw the forum into the fire to burn.

Thanks for indulging me on this.

We shouldn't need moderators to tell us to clean up.

[blackcat]

I do have a problem with someone who has already proved he is willing to break the rules, and ignore the law of the country he's in....
Lannis

Hmmm..... Unfortunately that is not restricted to someone sneaking across the border and usually for much higher numbers. But that is just a guess.

May 22, 2015.
"As of this week, Citicorp, JPMorgan Chase, Barclays and Royal Bank of Scotland are felons, having pleaded guilty on Wednesday to criminal charges of conspiring to rig the value of the world’s currencies. According to the Justice Department, the lengthy and lucrative conspiracy enabled the banks to pad their profits without regard to fairness, the law or the public good." Felons who will not see jail time or be deported.


If only the DMV could operate as efficiently as the banking laws or is that non-laws?

[rodekyll]

The problems the website is having right now are due to hack attacks.  The hackers set up machines to constantly ping the server in an attempt to breach it and take it down or overload and stall it so nobody can use it.  Certainly keywords, like the list you just seeded the site with, are noticed.  You see the targeted ads on this site.  The same sort of sniffers are used by countless other entities -- tin-foil-hat and others -- to identify sites that might have target content.

The hackers don't have to be actively present and working to sustain an attack.  They just point an array of zombie computers at it and have them all continuously attempt logins -- thousands of zombie computers pinging a site many times a second, 24/7.  They don't need to succeed in breaching security, and in fact a lot of these attacks are not intended to actually break in.  While the zombie army is attacking, the server and security equipment is so busy responding to the attackers that they don't have time to do WG business like refreshing, logging you in, sending messages, etc.  The server is set up with a 'tipover' switch that shuts it down when the activity hits an overload threshold.  This is a "denial of service" (DOS) attack.  No members involved.

[Two Checks]

Hey two checks, if you axed her it's no wonder you got no co-operation.

  You guys are saying E T can get a license easier than a resident?

Methinks you missed the point. She had already denied me a D/L due to no B/C but then suggested I get a passport. What does one need to get a passport? A B/C which she already knew I didn't have! I had to point it out to her!

I do have to say everyone at all the agencies I dealt with to get the required documents went out of their way and were very understanding of my situation.