Author Topic: CalVin vs. EV  (Read 11559 times)

Offline jmdaia

  • Guzzi Mentor
  • ****
  • Posts: 320
Re: CalVin vs. EV
« Reply #30 on: June 04, 2015, 04:14:41 PM »
That's why I got a Ducati
Florence, SC
03 California EV
02 KLR 650 with son in LA
son purchased Griso....yeah....
12 Ducati Monster 1100 evo in Charleston

Online Kev m

  • Not your normal Hombre
  • Guzzi Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 28356
  • Yo from Medford, NJ
Re: CalVin vs. EV
« Reply #31 on: June 04, 2015, 04:27:23 PM »
To all those who are yet to reach 65yo or older, the weight of your MC, especially when riding 2up, becomes a major factor on what rig you are going to keep riding on.   Us older riders no longer have the muscle strength we used to have like you probably still have.  :smiley:

I can understand that, though we should also remember it's not just how much it weighs, but how high or low it carries that weight.

I've had bikes that were taller and weighed less (sometimes by hundreds of pounds) that felt heavier than bikes that were lower but actually much heavier.

Though I'll also admit none of those heavy and low bikes ever felt AS light as say our Monster or V7.
Current Fleet

18 Guzzi V7III Carbon Dark
16 HD FLHP
13 Guzzi V7 Stone
11 Duc M696

89-300ce

  • Guest
Re: CalVin vs. EV
« Reply #32 on: June 05, 2015, 01:45:29 PM »
And that's the reason I no longer own my EV :(

Best,

Carlo

Interesting. So you find the older bikes easier to handle?

  Jorg
« Last Edit: June 05, 2015, 01:59:40 PM by 89-300ce »

89-300ce

  • Guest
Re: CalVin vs. EV
« Reply #33 on: June 05, 2015, 02:07:25 PM »
I can understand that, though we should also remember it's not just how much it weighs, but how high or low it carries that weight.

I've had bikes that were taller and weighed less (sometimes by hundreds of pounds) that felt heavier than bikes that were lower but actually much heavier.

Though I'll also admit none of those heavy and low bikes ever felt AS light as say our Monster or V7.

  One of my friends has a little monster. What a wonderfull solo bike.

Offline Carlo DeSantis

  • Guzzi Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • Posts: 1339
  • Location: Chicago
Re: CalVin vs. EV
« Reply #34 on: June 05, 2015, 03:29:43 PM »
Quote from: Carlo DeSantis on June 04, 2015, 02:43:28 PM

And that's the reason I no longer own my EV :(

Best,

Carlo

Interesting. So you find the older bikes easier to handle?

  Jorg

Indeed I do. 

The basic T3 weighs a bit less than the basic EV.  Then I added three HB chrome fames and hardcases; Rifle windshield (including lowers); a really heavy aftermarket seat; chromed Unity aux lights; bigger and heavier tires and wheels; and a few other things.  In addition, the EV has a longer wheelbase and higher triple clamp.  I'm guessing the T3 weighs something like 550# wet vs well over 600# wet for the EV.  So the EV was bigger, heavier and had a higher CoG.  It was wearing me out pushing it around the garage, and I felt it was only a matter of time before I had a zero mph drop with it.

My Eldo -- should I ever get it back on the road -- is much lighter than either T3 or EV.

In addition, my garage has a BMW R1200R that is about a bit over 500# wet with side cases and smallish windshield, and what feels like a lower CoG than the EV.

And another thing: if I wasn't so invested in my T3, I'd replace it with a V7!

The older I get, the smaller and lighter bikes are looking better and better.

As always, YMMV :)

Best,

Carlo
Chuck in Illinois
Crystal Lake, IL USA

'75 850 T3 Custom
'11 R1200R

Offline johnr

  • Guzzi Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 4348
  • Location: Invercargill NZ
Re: CalVin vs. EV
« Reply #35 on: June 05, 2015, 04:56:05 PM »
There just don't seem to be any Guzzi around  locally which if I had to be honest is also part of the appeal.

This is part of the appeal for me too. Coming round a corner to find another 1/2 doz bikes identical to mine would spoil my day.... unless it was some kind of Guzzi meet. My last bike had that virtue too. It was a BSA Rocket 3 which I had for 37 years. (I nearly bought a Munch Mammoth, but the BSA beat it out)

I loved my EV Engine but as per a very long and interesting tale on this site it has been re-engined with a 2002 LeMans motor. I'm still blown away when I think about that.
I can't wait to see how that goes and I'm hoping for minimum tappet noise.  Sigh... It's been off the road for far too long.

I do think that the EV is as heavy as I would go and the 1400 has gathered a bit of a rep for being crap in the gravel and from what I understand needs quite a lot of work to do things like remove the rear wheel.  (cf with My 1950 BSA A10 which had a quickly detachable rear wheel splined into the brakedrum/sprocket and a hinged rear guard to ease rolling it out)  Wouldn't do here I don't think.
New Zealand
2002 Ev tourer (Stalled again...)

Offline Carlo DeSantis

  • Guzzi Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • Posts: 1339
  • Location: Chicago
Re: CalVin vs. EV
« Reply #36 on: June 05, 2015, 05:54:28 PM »
Carlo , aren't real Eldos close to 600 Lbs wet ?

  Dusty

Dusty,

I honestly don't know the weight of my Eldo.  It's a naked civilian model, with no bags at the moment and it just SEEMS to be the lightest bike I've owned in some time.  Riding it in the Driftless Region of Wisconsin is an easy pleasure.

I've been wrong before -- and sure as hell I will be again :)

Best,

Carlo
Chuck in Illinois
Crystal Lake, IL USA

'75 850 T3 Custom
'11 R1200R

Online oldbike54

  • Moderator
  • Guzzi Hero
  • *
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 24844
Re: CalVin vs. EV
« Reply #37 on: June 05, 2015, 05:57:04 PM »
Dusty,

I honestly don't know the weight of my Eldo.  It's a naked civilian model, with no bags at the moment and it just SEEMS to be the lightest bike I've owned in some time.  Riding it in the Driftless Region of Wisconsin is an easy pleasure.

I've been wrong before -- and sure as hell I will be again :)

Best,

Carlo

 In the final analysis , the way something makes us feel is all that matters .

  Dusty
Transmit the message , to the receiver
Hope for an answer someday

Online Kev m

  • Not your normal Hombre
  • Guzzi Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 28356
  • Yo from Medford, NJ
Re: CalVin vs. EV
« Reply #38 on: June 05, 2015, 06:49:29 PM »
  One of my friends has a little monster. What a wonderfull solo bike.

True dat... Jenn doesn't want any other bike.
Current Fleet

18 Guzzi V7III Carbon Dark
16 HD FLHP
13 Guzzi V7 Stone
11 Duc M696

89-300ce

  • Guest
Re: CalVin vs. EV
« Reply #39 on: June 05, 2015, 07:58:23 PM »
Quote from: Carlo DeSantis on June 04, 2015, 02:43:28 PM

And that's the reason I no longer own my EV :(

Best,

Carlo

Indeed I do. 

The basic T3 weighs a bit less than the basic EV.  Then I added three HB chrome fames and hardcases; Rifle windshield (including lowers); a really heavy aftermarket seat; chromed Unity aux lights; bigger and heavier tires and wheels; and a few other things.  In addition, the EV has a longer wheelbase and higher triple clamp.  I'm guessing the T3 weighs something like 550# wet vs well over 600# wet for the EV.  So the EV was bigger, heavier and had a higher CoG.  It was wearing me out pushing it around the garage, and I felt it was only a matter of time before I had a zero mph drop with it.

My Eldo -- should I ever get it back on the road -- is much lighter than either T3 or EV.

In addition, my garage has a BMW R1200R that is about a bit over 500# wet with side cases and smallish windshield, and what feels like a lower CoG than the EV.

And another thing: if I wasn't so invested in my T3, I'd replace it with a V7!

The older I get, the smaller and lighter bikes are looking better and better.

As always, YMMV :)

Best,

Carlo

  How would you compare them for two up riding? The EV, the T3, and the Eldo?
Thanks.

Vasco DG

  • Guest
Re: CalVin vs. EV
« Reply #40 on: June 05, 2015, 08:18:24 PM »
To all those who are yet to reach 65yo or older, the weight of your MC, especially when riding 2up, becomes a major factor on what rig you are going to keep riding on.   Us older riders no longer have the muscle strength we used to have like you probably still have.  :smiley:

This Wayne is very true. I had a bloke call me up the other day, he is 67, had been off bikes for several years but had seen and fallen in love with a Cali 1400 touring. He was going to buy it from a place in Albury but wanted me to do the servicing because he' heard good word of mouth reports. I pointed out that if he wanted me to carry the warranty and servicing wouldn't it be better to buy the bike off me? That idea didn't get a lot of traction.

Thing is he had never ridden one, just seen it and fallen in lust. That's fine but unless he's a giant at 67 and coming back from a hiatus from motorcycling I didn't think it a wise choice. He'd previously owned a Cali II back in the eighties and seemed unaware of the weight and power differences.

Anyway, I wrote him a long email telling him what I could supply the bike for cost wise but asking him to seriously reconsider the purchase or at least get a decent test ride before parting himself from $25K, (Yup, that's what a blinged-up 'Touring' will cost you here.). Anyway, I haven't heard back, which I'm glad of. I'd find it very hard having to live with after reading his obituary.

I suggested a V7-Stone as an alternative. He probably though I was insulting him. Pity. It's a much more suitable bike and over ten grand less.

I just hope the dealer he buys from know what they're doing as if I suddenly get calls about warranty work I'm going to be extremely busy for the next two years.......

Pete

Offline Carlo DeSantis

  • Guzzi Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • Posts: 1339
  • Location: Chicago
Re: CalVin vs. EV
« Reply #41 on: June 05, 2015, 10:03:11 PM »
  How would you compare them for two up riding? The EV, the T3, and the Eldo?
Thanks.

Boy, I'm really not the person to answer this one.  I have done very few miles two-up.

That said, I can't imagine that the EV wouldn't win hands-down: more seat, more power, great (HB) luggage available.

Best,

Carlo
Chuck in Illinois
Crystal Lake, IL USA

'75 850 T3 Custom
'11 R1200R

Offline rodekyll

  • Guzzi Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 21235
  • Not my real name
Re: CalVin vs. EV
« Reply #42 on: June 05, 2015, 11:03:29 PM »
The EV is longer -- smoother ride, more passenger space.  More ponies by far.  It's as good as the Tonti/cali concept got. 

Graham UK

  • Guest
Re: CalVin vs. EV
« Reply #43 on: June 06, 2015, 07:54:54 AM »
I enjoyed a Cali hydro for a couple of years.  I now have a 1999 Cali EV - I like having regular tappets and also that there's no chrome on the wheels to flake off - it feels even smoother at low revs although lacks a little at the top end.  A friend who's had an EV bought the Vintage and found the riding position more cramped - so cramped that he traded it in.  I've also seen several Vintages which have corroded badly.  So, my preference is for a pre hydro EV, and am loving the one I now have.

Online Kev m

  • Not your normal Hombre
  • Guzzi Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 28356
  • Yo from Medford, NJ
Re: CalVin vs. EV
« Reply #44 on: June 06, 2015, 07:57:37 AM »
Why would one be more cramped except differences on seat?

Aren't the frames and forks and probably bars all the same between the Cal-Vin and EV?
Current Fleet

18 Guzzi V7III Carbon Dark
16 HD FLHP
13 Guzzi V7 Stone
11 Duc M696

Graham UK

  • Guest
Re: CalVin vs. EV
« Reply #45 on: June 06, 2015, 08:40:48 AM »
From what I read, the seat was lowered on the Vintage; I forget the reason, but it may have been something to do with the position of the battery.

Graham UK

  • Guest
Re: CalVin vs. EV
« Reply #46 on: June 06, 2015, 08:42:42 AM »
Incidentally, I had the optional MG touring seat on the hydro - now that was comfortable!  Except that it put my head into even more turbulence from the screen - nothing that an MRA X-creen couldn't sort though.

Graham UK

  • Guest
Re: CalVin vs. EV
« Reply #47 on: June 06, 2015, 08:47:03 AM »
Re-reading the original post, perhaps I should mention that my other bike is a Breva 1100.  I love its free revving engine, but the friend who found the Vintage too cramped also mourned the change in engine characteristics from the EV he'd had, which he felt was more suitable to a cruiser-type of bike.

Offline Dilliw

  • Guzzi Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 3319
Re: CalVin vs. EV
« Reply #48 on: June 08, 2015, 09:44:36 PM »
If you are looking for a hydro:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Moto-Guzzi-California-EV-/301651504687?forcerrptr=true&hash=item463bd4ae2f&item=301651504687

The black Touring I EV's didn't have the heated grips or the electrical outlet but all I've seen came with the dual plate clutch.  This guy says that "GuzziSteve" did the recall on this bike and that's a good indication that the original owner told him the proper history (there's only one GuzziSteve!).  Other than the Staintune exhaust and the pinstriping the mods are in good taste and the mileage is good for a hydro (if that ITI speedo hasn't died yet).  It also looks like it has the Showa Harley Air Shocks on it which is a popular upgrade.

George Westbury
Aiken, SC
2003 EVT "The Tank"
2011 Griso SE

L-824 and L-825

Offline rodekyll

  • Guzzi Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 21235
  • Not my real name
Re: CalVin vs. EV
« Reply #49 on: June 08, 2015, 10:05:40 PM »
Maybe Steve will comment on the dyno'd 100hp of this hydro.  You might fit 100 welsh ponies in there, but I have my doubts about 100 full-sized ones.

89-300ce

  • Guest
Re: CalVin vs. EV
« Reply #50 on: June 09, 2015, 08:28:29 AM »
If you are looking for a hydro:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Moto-Guzzi-California-EV-/301651504687?forcerrptr=true&hash=item463bd4ae2f&item=301651504687

The black Touring I EV's didn't have the heated grips or the electrical outlet but all I've seen came with the dual plate clutch.  This guy says that "GuzziSteve" did the recall on this bike and that's a good indication that the original owner told him the proper history (there's only one GuzziSteve!).  Other than the Staintune exhaust and the pinstriping the mods are in good taste and the mileage is good for a hydro (if that ITI speedo hasn't died yet).  It also looks like it has the Showa Harley Air Shocks on it which is a popular upgrade.

  Nice. A few logistics problems for me compared to the one in S. Dakota. In any case, I'm uncomfortable buying a bike I haven't inspected/ridden regardless of how good a deal it might be. A friend bought a vintage Harley based on photos and phone calls because he let passion get the better of him. That bike didn't turn out quite like expected.

  Other than cosmetics are there significant differences between 98-02 EV's?

  It's a shame they blacked out the webbing on the cases of the later model EV's as I find the cases very attractive and not something I would downplay. I'm starting to think the rear fender/tail light of the hydros doesn't fit the rear wheel very well either. I prefer the aluminium rims to chrome.

  I tend to keep my bikes so I try to learn about them before I buy them.

  Do all the seats on the EV's interchange?

  Jorg
« Last Edit: June 09, 2015, 08:30:14 AM by 89-300ce »

Online Kev m

  • Not your normal Hombre
  • Guzzi Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 28356
  • Yo from Medford, NJ
Re: CalVin vs. EV
« Reply #51 on: June 09, 2015, 09:29:29 AM »
From what I read, the seat was lowered on the Vintage; I forget the reason, but it may have been something to do with the position of the battery.

I don't know that I believe that.

I keep a spreadsheet on bikes that interest me - various comparative specs.

Here's what I have for seat height:

Jackal  30.3
Black Eagle 30.5
Cal-Vin 30.7

Now EV wasn't in that list but a quick google search:

http://www.autoevolution.com/moto/moto-guzzi-california-ev-2004.html#aeng_moto-guzzi-california-vintage-2004-1064

http://www.autoevolution.com/moto/moto-guzzi-california-touring-2002.html#aeng_moto-guzzi-california-touring-2002-1064

2002+ EV 30.7

And my service manual says 770mm (30.3) across the board Stone, Jackal, Special, Special Sport, and EV

So I can't imagine there's much of a difference, unless there's a big difference in foot controls (doubt it) or maybe there's a bar difference, but that's easy enough to change.


Current Fleet

18 Guzzi V7III Carbon Dark
16 HD FLHP
13 Guzzi V7 Stone
11 Duc M696

Graham UK

  • Guest
Re: CalVin vs. EV
« Reply #52 on: June 16, 2015, 06:00:54 AM »
I've been puzzling over your comments, because I agree that those figures look the same, but I know I read that the leg position was more cramped on the Vintage, and I know my friend found it to be so.  I've not been able to locate where I read the reasons, but I have found the difference illustrated on this site: http://cycle-ergo.com/

If you compare the Vintage to the Jackal, you'll see that the knee angle is only 79 degrees on the former, but 85 degrees on the latter; obviously, the Jackal has pegs instead of footboards, but I don't think that affects the position.

If nothing else, perhaps others will find the above site useful if they've not come across it before!

Online Cam3512

  • Guzzi Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 5590
Re: CalVin vs. EV
« Reply #53 on: June 16, 2015, 06:16:08 AM »
If you are looking for a hydro:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Moto-Guzzi-California-EV-/301651504687?forcerrptr=true&hash=item463bd4ae2f&item=301651504687

The black Touring I EV's didn't have the heated grips or the electrical outlet but all I've seen came with the dual plate clutch.  This guy says that "GuzziSteve" did the recall on this bike and that's a good indication that the original owner told him the proper history (there's only one GuzziSteve!).  Other than the Staintune exhaust and the pinstriping the mods are in good taste and the mileage is good for a hydro (if that ITI speedo hasn't died yet).  It also looks like it has the Showa Harley Air Shocks on it which is a popular upgrade.

Not to mention he has always used the WRONG weight oil!
Cam - NJ Rep MGNOC
'67 Stornello Scrambler
'71 Ambo Police
'74 V7 Sport
20 V85TT

http://mgnocnj.forumotion.com

Online Kev m

  • Not your normal Hombre
  • Guzzi Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 28356
  • Yo from Medford, NJ
Re: CalVin vs. EV
« Reply #54 on: June 16, 2015, 06:35:03 AM »
I've been puzzling over your comments, because I agree that those figures look the same, but I know I read that the leg position was more cramped on the Vintage, and I know my friend found it to be so.  I've not been able to locate where I read the reasons, but I have found the difference illustrated on this site: http://cycle-ergo.com/

If you compare the Vintage to the Jackal, you'll see that the knee angle is only 79 degrees on the former, but 85 degrees on the latter; obviously, the Jackal has pegs instead of footboards, but I don't think that affects the position.

If nothing else, perhaps others will find the above site useful if they've not come across it before!

I have ABSOLUTELY no faith in that website.

Thing is, I'm not saying your friend is wrong from his experience.

I'm saying that we all experience things differently.

Inseam is only part of the equation.

We might scoot forward or back on the seat, we might hug the tank with our knees, sit relaxed without gripping or kick a leg out when riding on the highway, we might put the balls of our feet on the pegs or the heels, etc.



But at the end of the day, if those numbers (specs from MG) are accurate, the EV and Cal-Vin are the SAME basic bike (frame/motor) and any minor difference that exists in ergos can be remedied by changing the appropriate parts - seat, bars, foot controls etc.
« Last Edit: June 16, 2015, 06:38:25 AM by Kev m »
Current Fleet

18 Guzzi V7III Carbon Dark
16 HD FLHP
13 Guzzi V7 Stone
11 Duc M696

89-300ce

  • Guest
Re: CalVin vs. EV
« Reply #55 on: June 16, 2015, 08:03:15 AM »
  I've heard it mentioned here and at Guzzitech that the 02 was one of the more sorted EV's. What makes it so. Pre-hydro but single plate clutch I believe? Is the ECM still under the seat on the 02? How difficult is it to move the ECU from the under seat location and will other seats then fit? Since it will be a two up bike I believe the ECU under the seat models won't work for the passenger.

  Thanks

     Jorg.

190 Octane

  • Guest
Re: CalVin vs. EV
« Reply #56 on: June 16, 2015, 11:03:10 AM »
  I've heard it mentioned here and at Guzzitech that the 02 was one of the more sorted EV's. What makes it so. Pre-hydro but single plate clutch I believe? Is the ECM still under the seat on the 02? How difficult is it to move the ECU from the under seat location and will other seats then fit? Since it will be a two up bike I believe the ECU under the seat models won't work for the passenger.

  Thanks

     Jorg.

The 02 should have solid lifters and a dual plate clutch.  I believe the big under the seat ECU went away in 99 or 2000.  My 02 Stone has the ECU under the side cover, the EV should be the same.

Offline Dean Rose

  • Guzzi Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 12257
    • Twin Valley Riders
  • Location: Claytor Lake Virginia
Re: CalVin vs. EV
« Reply #57 on: June 16, 2015, 01:42:56 PM »
'02 EVs are GREAT.


Dean
Magnolia '02 EV
Sophia '06 Breva 1100 
"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."

Offline Dilliw

  • Guzzi Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 3319
Re: CalVin vs. EV
« Reply #58 on: June 16, 2015, 02:11:06 PM »
  I've heard it mentioned here and at Guzzitech that the 02 was one of the more sorted EV's. What makes it so. Pre-hydro but single plate clutch I believe? Is the ECM still under the seat on the 02? How difficult is it to move the ECU from the under seat location and will other seats then fit? Since it will be a two up bike I believe the ECU under the seat models won't work for the passenger.

  Thanks

     Jorg.

2002 EV:
Pre-hydro (if that's what you are looking for)
dual plate clutch
longer swingarm
4.0x17 chrome tubeless rear wheel
black engine paint.  Only knock in 02 there was some flaking.
15M ECU.  No big chunk under the seat

Only needs are a better/re worked seat and better suspension.  If you find one with the King/Queen optional seat you'll be fine.
George Westbury
Aiken, SC
2003 EVT "The Tank"
2011 Griso SE

L-824 and L-825

Offline Dean Rose

  • Guzzi Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 12257
    • Twin Valley Riders
  • Location: Claytor Lake Virginia
Re: CalVin vs. EV
« Reply #59 on: June 16, 2015, 04:42:06 PM »
Ikon shocks on the rear and hyperpro progressive fork springs on the front along with the King/Queen seat like I have on my '02 and you're good to go.


Dean
Magnolia '02 EV
Sophia '06 Breva 1100 
"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."

***Wildguzzi Official Logo High Quality 5 Color Window Decals Back In Stock***
Shipping in USA Only. Awesome quality. Back by popular demand. All proceeds go back into the forum.
http://www.wildguzzi.com/Products/products.htm
Advertise Here
 


Advertise your products today. All proceeds go back into this website.
Your ad will show up over 10,000 times daily!
Advertise Here