Author Topic: noisy valves (Read 10475 times)

Eric · « **on:** June 23, 2015, 02:37:51 PM »

today I adjusted the valves on my 07 Norge. I haven't done this bike myself and everything was pretty tight so I couldn't count on gaps as a hint on finding compression stroke. I'm pretty sure I got it right, but I took it out for a 100 miles or so and it seems much noisier than I remember. My question is, what exactly happens if you adjust valves on the wrong stroke?

pyoungbl · « **Reply #1 on:** June 23, 2015, 02:56:09 PM »

To get everything set correctly you really should be on the compression stroke. I use a soda straw stuck in the sparkplug hole and watch the intake valve go down, then up, and when the piston is at TDC I'm golden. I guess, in theory, as long as you are on the base arc for the cam you could do the set at any point in the cycle but I just do not trust the base arc to be the same through 360 degrees. Setting at TDC/compression stroke puts me at the same spot every time so I can be consistent.

Peter Y.

Eric · « **Reply #2 on:** June 23, 2015, 03:01:24 PM »

I'm pretty sure I know how . I use the straw method or just look thrIugh the sparkplug hole. There is lots of good help here. I'm just afraid I may have made a mistake when I was distracted by a shiny object . Would it sound or run differently If done on the exhaust stroke?

earemike · « **Reply #3 on:** June 23, 2015, 03:23:36 PM »

There shouldn't be any pressure on the valves at the correct TDC so if you had a clearance for both valves before you started you should be ok.

If you've loosened them a couple of thou a little more overhead noise wouldn't surprise me... BUT I don't have a Norge

Aaron D. · « **Reply #4 on:** June 23, 2015, 03:42:39 PM »

If it is noisier than you think it should be it is possible you did it on the wrong TDC. It will run with less power and a lot of clacking..

I won't tell you how I know, but I will say no Guzzi was involved.

Wayne Orwig · « **Reply #5 on:** June 23, 2015, 03:56:03 PM »

Quote from: Eric on June 23, 2015, 03:01:24 PM

I'm pretty sure I know how . I use the straw method or just look thrIugh the sparkplug hole. There is lots of good help here. I'm just afraid I may have made a mistake when I was distracted by a shiny object . Would it sound or run differently If done on the exhaust stroke?

Did you turn the adjusters a VERY SMALL amount to get it right?
If you turned them more the 1/2 turn, you were likely doing something wrong.

Eric · « **Reply #6 on:** June 23, 2015, 05:47:48 PM »

no more than 1/8 turn. but it was snug no matter what stroke. And it has lost no power as far as I can tell
I was curioua if an error would be obvious. I wonder what would happen? I suppose the valves wouldn't entirely close.

Triple Jim · « **Reply #7 on:** June 23, 2015, 05:51:17 PM »

If you set the valve clearance when the valves aren't fully closed, you'll end up making huge clearance, hence Aaron D's post about lots of clacking noise and reduced power. But as you know, if you have to move the adjustment more than a little, something is wrong.

Kiwi Dave · « **Reply #8 on:** June 23, 2015, 05:52:00 PM »

Quote from: Eric on June 23, 2015, 05:47:48 PM

I suppose the valves wouldn't entirely close.

Not for long. They'll be burnt out if you continue to run the motor. This is something I would check before I started that motor again.

POP0404 · « **Reply #9 on:** June 23, 2015, 05:56:08 PM »

I put my hand over the spark plug hole and when I could feel the air pressure building I knew I was on the compression stroke then used to straw to ensure piston was at top of stroke. Once I worked that out, I double checked by repeating the process and watching the valves. Note mine is a 8V but I'm guessing the process of positioning the piston for valve adjustment is the same.

Eric · « **Reply #10 on:** June 23, 2015, 06:33:29 PM »

Thanks all. I'll pull the cover off tomorrow and verify. Better safe than. .. well, been there before

Kiwi_Roy · « **Reply #11 on:** June 23, 2015, 06:59:37 PM »

This is the way I do it
Pull both plugs.
In top gear rotate the rear wheel forward using the slop in the gears to gain momentum until you see the exhaust valve open then start to close again. At the point were it's closing and the inlet is opening you are at TDC on the exhaust stroke.
Now turn the engine over again (360°) until it comes up to TDC (feeling with a straw). You can rock it back and forth with the back wheel to get TDC then set the valves.

Sasquatch Jim · « **Reply #12 on:** June 23, 2015, 07:17:09 PM »

I just hate nosey valves.

Hugh Straub · « **Reply #13 on:** June 23, 2015, 07:34:34 PM »

Loud valves save lives.

pyoungbl · « **Reply #14 on:** June 23, 2015, 08:23:33 PM »

FWIW, in the past I have thought that my valves were making more noise than usual. It only took 15-20 minutes of work to find that everything was OK. Well, one time I did adjust for .001" of clearance on a valve just because I'm anal. With that said, it's easy enough to get some peace of mind. If you check and find everything in spec you can celebrate, if something is out of spec you can fix it and celebrate. Win-win in my mind.

Peter Y.

tris · « **Reply #15 on:** June 24, 2015, 01:19:58 AM »

a) Did you re-check 'em after tightening the lock nuts? Tightening the locknut can close the gap

b) Try the ICEO method - I did exactly the same as you until I found this

http://www.motoguzziclub.co.uk/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=19676&KW=iceo

"Simple way to set the tappets is the ICEO method:- Inlet closing exhaust opening
Remove the rocker covers and plugs and put the bike in top gear. Roll the bike forwards until an exhaust valve just starts to open. Without moving the bike, set the inlet tappet on the same side. Next roll the bike back till the inlet valve just starts to open. Now set the exhaust tappet for that same cylinder.
Then repeat for the other side.
No chance of getting your destros and sinisters mixed up."

Courtesy Don-Spada MGCGB

I just put the bike on the centre stand and stick it in gear to turn it over by turning the back wheel

jabberwocky · « **Reply #16 on:** June 24, 2015, 05:18:48 AM »

I have a related question and comment, sorry if this would be considered a threadjack. I have been trying to figure out what is going on with my T3 regarding intermittently noisy valve gear. At one point, I pulled the covers to check clearances, and before rotating the engine to TDC on a given cylinder, I gave the rockers a wiggle, and found one of the valves at about .014" which is almost double the spec. Then, before adjusting it, I spun that cyl to TDC on the compression stroke, and found that it was right on .008". That confused me, so I checked to see how that went on other cylinders, and found that over the course of the compression stroke, on all four valves, the clearance is greatest well before the piston is at TDC. I had often in the past just confirmed that the valve I was adjusting was fully closed, figuring with the lifter anywhere on the base circle of the cam would be the same. I've been more methodical in recent years, but I found this recent finding interesting. Still, my valves are sometimes noisy, sometimes not. It gets worse as the engine heats up, which prompted me to go from 10/30 to 20/50, but it still is quite noisy at times. I'm just going to ride it, and see what develops, as it runs beautifully otherwise.

Vasco DG · « **Reply #17 on:** June 24, 2015, 05:23:09 AM »

Worn cam, worn tappets, worn or loose rocker bushings?

jabberwocky · « **Reply #18 on:** June 24, 2015, 05:33:27 AM »

I was wondering if it might be a worn cam. The rocker shafts and bushing look great. I don't wanna pull it apart till riding season is over. I'd be so bored just having the /5 to ride!

Chuck in Indiana · « **Reply #19 on:** June 24, 2015, 07:10:17 AM »

Quote from: jabberwocky on June 24, 2015, 05:33:27 AM

I was wondering if it might be a worn cam. The rocker shafts and bushing look great. I don't wanna pull it apart till riding season is over. I'd be so bored just having the /5 to ride!

Yep, sounds like a re freshening is in the cards. Hopefully, it'll run all season. It would be a shame to find you in the ditch because you fell asleep on the back of that /5..

Eric · « **Reply #20 on:** June 24, 2015, 12:55:18 PM »

Sorry to highjack my original thread

but I pulled off the covers and all was well. I thought I was wrong, but I was wrong. I suppose they had been too tight long enough that the normal noise sounded like too much noise. On the down side, I buggered up one of the gaskets removing it and they were my spares. So now I can't ride until new gaskets come. If there is an outside chance there is anyone with and extra Norge valve cover gasket up here on the White Earth reservation, drop me a note. The local high-end Italian motorcycle boutique on the rez seems to be out of them.

Kiwi_Roy · « **Reply #21 on:** June 24, 2015, 02:10:04 PM »

Make one, it's pretty easy service I think, a cornflake box should hold it covered in grease

Vasco DG · « **Reply #22 on:** June 24, 2015, 02:16:25 PM »

Or, as a temporary measure, a thin, (and I mean thin!) smear of Threebond or similar.

Pete

Eric · « **Reply #23 on:** June 24, 2015, 05:59:54 PM »

Thanks for everyone's help and for suggestions for a quicker fix. My capacity for screwing things up is pretty much unlimited. So I think I'll wait for a gasket. I'm in a place where I can go fishing instead of riding for a few days. First world problems....

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Author Topic: noisy valves (Read 10475 times)

Vasco DG

Vasco DG