Author Topic: Charging Question for the Sparky Wizards  (Read 2565 times)

Offline tris

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Charging Question for the Sparky Wizards
« on: June 30, 2015, 01:25:38 AM »
I have a LED Battery Monitor on the bike and noticed a slight change in the colour depending on whether the head light was on or off that looked strange.

Data from multimeter across battery terminals
13.6v - engine off
13.9v - headlight off engine running
14.4v - headlight on engine running

My eyes didn't deceive me SO why is the regulated voltage higher with the headlight on - I expected it to go the other way due to the load from the lights  :undecided: :undecided:

« Last Edit: June 30, 2015, 01:26:04 AM by tris »
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Offline Kiwi_Roy

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Re: Charging Question for the Sparky Wizards
« Reply #1 on: June 30, 2015, 02:26:03 AM »
The Ducati Energia Voltage regulator sets the Voltage between it's black wire and case to ~13.9 Volts
The black wire is tapped into the headlight circuit downstream of the headlight relay.
With the headlight turned off (no current flow) the battery and the tap point are exactly the same Voltage (13.9 V)
With the headlight On the current in the headlight circuit creates a Voltage drop across the resistance of the relay contacts and wire, about 1/2 Volt so now for the regulator sees only 13.4 Volts, in order to see 13.9 it has to push the battery Voltage higher 13.0 + 0.5 or 14.4 Volts.

Does that answers your question?
« Last Edit: June 30, 2015, 03:12:41 AM by Kiwi_Roy »
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Offline tris

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Re: Charging Question for the Sparky Wizards
« Reply #2 on: June 30, 2015, 06:48:38 AM »
I was hoping you'd pop up Roy as your electrical answers are always clear  :bow: :bow:

So yes it does make sense and I'm glad to see that my regulator is well ........ regulating :thumb:

This issue shall be struck of my list of stuff to think about   :grin:

Thanks

2017 V9 Roamer
2005 Breva 1100 (non ABS) "Bruno" - now sold
1995 Cali 1100 - carby   "Dino" -now sold
1993 TW125 "POS" - Resting

Offline Kiwi_Roy

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Re: Charging Question for the Sparky Wizards
« Reply #3 on: June 30, 2015, 07:48:32 AM »
If you add a pair of headlight relays powered directly from the battery the current bypasses the normal headlight and you loose the Voltage drop.
If you use a larger headlamp bulb the Voltage drop increases pushing the battery Voltage higher still.

I'm in two minds as to this Voltage drop being a good thing, I know it will increase with time as the relay pins oxidize but drop back again if you wiggle the headlight relay.

You can read the Voltage drop directly if you measure from battery + to the black wire on the regulator, try it with the headlight On then Off, the engine doesn't need to be running. Then wiggle the relay, see if it changed. I get the sense the factory has wrestled with the charging over the years.

Some of the spine frame bikes like my VII Sport get a double dose of Voltage drop because the current passes through the start relay then the headlight relay. Other Guzzis just use the start relay to switch the headlight relay coil.

I have discussed with a few guys the possibility of moving the Voltage sensing to the ECU relay, the current there is much lower.

I think the main reason Luigi wired it this way, the regulator reference draws about 15 milliamps which is a significant drain on the battery, the later after-market direct connected regulators draw less than half a milliamp, still enough to flatten the battery over the winter.

BTW, make sure your DE regulator has an extra ground wire added, just a short one from the regulator to an engine bolt, the wire the factory provided all the way back to the battery is not adequate.
« Last Edit: June 30, 2015, 07:54:35 AM by Kiwi_Roy »
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Offline Kiwi_Roy

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Re: Charging Question for the Sparky Wizards
« Reply #4 on: June 30, 2015, 08:01:20 AM »
BTW Tris, I think your Voltage reference is really bad, if I'm not mistaken the headlight current passes through the ignition switch.


http://www.thisoldtractor.com/guzzi007/schematics/1994_California_1100.gif

It would be easy to verify, with your meter see if you have power on terminal 30 of the headlight relay with the key Off.
There is no reason to switch the power to terminal 30, that's what relays do best.
« Last Edit: June 30, 2015, 09:42:55 AM by Kiwi_Roy »
17 V7III Special
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Moto Guzzi - making electricians out of riders since 1921

Offline tris

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Re: Charging Question for the Sparky Wizards
« Reply #5 on: July 02, 2015, 01:10:37 AM »
Cheers Roy - I'll check that out

2017 V9 Roamer
2005 Breva 1100 (non ABS) "Bruno" - now sold
1995 Cali 1100 - carby   "Dino" -now sold
1993 TW125 "POS" - Resting

Online Wayne Orwig

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Re: Charging Question for the Sparky Wizards
« Reply #6 on: July 02, 2015, 07:10:54 AM »
Another thing to keep in mind. When you increase the load on the charging system, you are going to get more ripple on the battery. It is possible that the voltmeter isn't giving a true reading of that voltage.
You may want to try a quality meter measured right at the battery to verify the LED meter you are using.
Scientist have discovered that people will believe anything, if you first say "Scientists have discovered...."


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