Just in time!

[Vasco DG]

If they don't do their research and expect someone else to wipe their arse for them? Yes.

Pete

[ohiorider]

So the Piaggio offer is (a) they will pay the labor, and (b) the owner purchases the kit?  Or do I have this backwards?  I should probably go back and read the entire thread .... answer to my question is probably there(?)

[Vasco DG]

If the flat tappets fail within the warranty period? All covered. If they fail outside the two year period then the kit is supplied but the owner pays for installation.

If there is no documented service history by an authorised dealer then the full cost is bourne by the customer. The factory's decision is final and absolute.

Before anyone asks installation time varies depending on what kit is required.

[ohiorider]

Hopefully, the 'dealer service records' requirement might be different in the USA.  However, I did purchase the bike new at Rider's Hill in Dahalonega, GA in 2012.  GuzziSteve had the bike set up for me, so I took her out and put on slightly over 500 miles in a couple of days, took the bike back for G.Steve to do the first service (valves, oil, filter, etc) and whatever else was called for on first service.  I have those records. Recall on rear suspension and warranty on exhaust crossover and bubbled fuel tank taken care of by ClevelandMoto.  Oil/filter changes (Agip 10w604T Racing Oil) at 530, 4811, 6718, and 9696 miles.  Valves adjusted at 530(G Steve) and 6289 (me.)Current mileage ... just over 10,000 miles.  I maintain my personal spreadsheet on all my bikes that shows date, mileage, and maintenance performed.  Hopefully, that would suffice.

[Cam3512]

http://youtu.be/iHsx1cvACkY

[yrunvs]

The 8v flat tappet bikes through year 2012 are suspect at roughly 50,000 miles +or-, so what can a person expect from the roller tappets on the 2013+ bikes and have there been any cam failures on them?

[Vasco DG]

No they're all really shitty. I wouldn't bother with any of them.

[Moto Fugazzi]

Fun comes at a cost.

Pete

Brilliant quote. Thanks Pete, I'll be using that!
Ken

[Vasco DG]

Everything costs. It just depends whether you want a Walmart life at the lowest possible price or you would like something a bit more exotic and enjoyable, different even, and are willing to spend a bit more.

In the U.S. A Griso costs what? 12.5k and chump change? Over here a 2015 G8 is a $22,000 proposition. When I bought mine eight years ago the cost was a bit more. (Factor in inflation etc.) I still wouldn't swap it for anything else available for the price or a lot less. It speaks to me, it's a fantastic experience and it's more fun than snorting un-cut blow off a Brazilian hooker's tits!

It's simple. If you don't like the 8V or like it but are worried that it will interfere with your walmartian obsession with 'Cost'? (sorry I can't come at 'Value!) buy something else but FFS don't try and say it's a shitbox based on spurious and ignorant scaremongering.

Pete

[Bobolink]

[/quote] it's more fun than snorting un-cut blow off a Brazilian hooker's tits!
[/quote]
What the cost of this kind of fun? I'm just curious as it just happens to be on my bucketlist.

[yrunvs]

Everything costs. It just depends whether you want a Walmart life at the lowest possible price or you would like something a bit more exotic and enjoyable, different even, and are willing to spend a bit more.

In the U.S. A Griso costs what? 12.5k and chump change? Over here a 2015 G8 is a $22,000 proposition. When I bought mine eight years ago the cost was a bit more. (Factor in inflation etc.) I still wouldn't swap it for anything else available for the price or a lot less. It speaks to me, it's a fantastic experience and it's more fun than snorting un-cut blow off a Brazilian hooker's tits!

It's simple. If you don't like the 8V or like it but are worried that it will interfere with your walmartian obsession with 'Cost'? (sorry I can't come at 'Value!) buy something else but FFS don't try and say it's a shitbox based on spurious and ignorant scaremongering.

Pete

This is a fair opinion.
For years I have followed this forum but have not owned a Guzzi. I nearly purchased a 2009 Stelvio and then a 2009 Griso but instead purchased a used Triumph which has been a barrel of fun. I am getting older and want to purchase most likely my last cycle and have concluded that it might possibly be a 2013+ Griso, it has all I want and need and desire.
I have knowledge of all the warts of the Griso starting with the 4v and now with the 8v. and there are a few. But yet I seem to be willing to overlook them in want for an unique naked bike that I can work on myself and ride with pride.
I am what in America is called "working poor", no need to elaborate but it demands that I do my research and be frugal when I purchase.
So my questions stands.   What durability can be expected from the roller tappet 8v motor?

[Joliet Jim]

good thing i'm hanging on to my CentaurO with it's indestructible 8V :)  Grisos always felt a little too sissified for my likes. :P 

[Lannis]

good thing i'm hanging on to my CentaurO with it's indestructible 8V :)  Grisos always felt a little too sissified for my likes. :P 

We'll see who's a sissy once your oil pump shaft finishes wallowing out its unbushed running surface in the pump body .... !   It'll take a brave man to get enough money in one place to fix THAT situation if it happens ... 

Lannis

[Wayne Orwig]

good thing i'm hanging on to my CentaurO with it's indestructible 8V :)  Grisos always felt a little too sissified for my likes. :P 

One of the reasons I sold the Centauro and got the Stelvio is that the Centauro was too expensive to maintain. And many parts were becoming unobtainium. So even if the Stelvio has some unexpected costs, at least it won't become scrap as easily.

So far I have not had to replace the Stelvio's oil pump or belts.

That, and the Stelvio motors extra horses add to the fun.

[Lannis]

So far I have not had to replace the Stelvio's oil pump or belts.

Or grease the poxy drive shaft.   Whose bright idea was it to build a shaft drive that required more frequent lubing than a modern chain, and which (according to the Book) needed replacing before a set of sprockets and a chain would need replacing?

Lannis

[Joliet Jim]

One of the reasons I sold the Centauro and got the Stelvio is that the Centauro was too expensive to maintain. And many parts were becoming unobtainium. So even if the Stelvio has some unexpected costs, at least it won't become scrap as easily.

So far I have not had to replace the Stelvio's oil pump or belts.

That, and the Stelvio motors extra horses add to the fun.

Well that is the gamble I'm taking. It's not getting that many miles on it so the next belt change hopefully will be the last maintenance for awhile. Forks and drive shaft were done when the new bridgestones went on. As much as I'd like a newer 8, I can't justify the money for the amount of riding I'm doing now that we bought the travel trailer.

[BRIO]

Oh, and as a counterpoint to all the 'Oh it's a 50,000 mile engine' nonsense some of you might be interested to know that at over 50,000 miles when I pulled the valves to inspect them the results were outstanding.

I performed the 'Pull Test' on the loose valves and the results were perfect. With my finger over the end of the oil seal  pulling out the valve and releasing it it drew itself straight back in. The guide to stem seal was still brilliant. Comparing the stems of the valves with new ones the difference was very hard to measure with my good quality micrometer, it was microns of wear. Exhaust as expected showed slightly more than inlets but the cooling galleries are obviously doing their job.

If this was a 50,000 mile 2-Valver, especially a big valve Squarefin, the valves would be flopping about in the guides like a cock in a sock!

It's swings and roundabouts. No piece of engineering is perfect but to suggest the 8V is going to suffer some sort of longevity issue and is poorly engineered overall is facile and stupid.

Pete

Are you saying that the 2v is a 50000 mile engine?

[Vasco DG]

(Sigh!)

[Penderic]

Around and around we go. Did I miss something?

[SteveAZ]

I've wanted an 8v Griso since the first year of production. I'm going to pick one up when they hit that aging sweet spot of not new enough to command top dollar and not old enough to be classic and the price bottoms out. I always read these 8v threads and lurk at the Griso Ghetto. I think the black/silver SE is dead sexy and someday I'll have one, it's a bucket list item.

Pete, it's already been said but again, thank you for documenting what you've seen and learned. This stuff getting archived will become even more useful when these bikes are getting long in the tooth and aren't "current" any longer.

[canuguzzi]

From reading this thread and the one related to it I've concluded the following:

My roller tappet 8V Norge may at some time between now and the 100,000 mile mark need some attention with a higher chance the attention will cost me sone money after the 80,000 miles on the odo but more likely not.

By the time such a thing happens I will either be thankful to have an excuse to get another or whatever is designed to replace it. Should MG announce between now and then that the Norge will no longer he made in any iteration, then I'll  ride the last new one I can find before they are all sold and repeat the process except the the last part because I will surely have discovered if there is life after death.

[Vasco DG]

WRT the question of roller tappet longevity?

There is this bloke Tex who spends his life riding around Australia raising money for charity. For the last 18 months or so he's been riding a Stelvio provided by our importer.

I was talking to Daniel who had just done a service on it, it's a stock NTX with rollers. I can't remember if it was the 110,000km service or the 120,000? Only thing it needed above and beyond the usual oils, tappets, filters was a fork seal.

120,000 km in a year and a half and it needed a fork seal! What a piece of shit!

Pete

[jacksonracingcomau]

Well done Pete I like the idea of getting the last mile and working out exactly why things fail but sadly I've missed what that was, can you tell ?
For others, esp those that travel far from workshop it may not be sensible to do same, once it has happened I don,'t think it wise to keep riding, far more damage may follow, possibly not covered by warranty,
Surely it would make more sense to change to rollers now, remove the pin from the hand grenade
Just my way, others may differ

[Vasco DG]

Well done Pete I like the idea of getting the last mile and working out exactly why things fail but sadly I've missed what that was, can you tell ?
For others, esp those that travel far from workshop it may not be sensible to do same, once it has happened I don,'t think it wise to keep riding, far more damage may follow, possibly not covered by warranty,
Surely it would make more sense to change to rollers now, remove the pin from the hand grenade
Just my way, others may differ

I wondered where you were. It must be exciting for you.

[jacksonracingcomau]

[quite author=Vasco DG link=topic=77697.msg1221836#msg1221836 date=1437298398]
I wondered where you were. It must be exciting for you.
[/quote]

London right now, been riding in Europe, off to Ireland and IoM next week
Old dunger Tonti, of course, wish I could warn people of issues but they,ve all been addressed, many years ago

Proper exciting. Thanks
MH

[BRIO]

(Sigh!)

It was a legitimate question. What is your thought on the previous generations longevity? Guzzi neophyte here.

[Wayne Orwig]

It was a legitimate question. What is your thought on the previous generations longevity? Guzzi neophyte here.

You didn't ask me, but I'll give my opinion anyway. Hell, it is the internit.... 

I have over 300,000 miles (not to be confused with this wimpy KMs.   ) on Guzzis. Over 500,000 on bikes in general. Over 200,000 miles on the 'previous generation' bikes. And many tens of thousands of those miles towing a large camper. I do my own work.

A: Anything can be broken. If you rely on dealers, you need a good dealer. If you do your own work, MGCycle, Harpers, etc., can often be better than dealing with Honda parts. I have a great dealer (RidersHill) and do my own work, so I'm great.

B: The older bikes are air cooled. The newer 8 V are oil cooled. ANY air cooled motor is going to run the exhaust valve at a higher temperature. ANY. When you get close to 100,000 mile, you should have the heads inspected, and maybe the guides lined. Again this is not a Guzzi specific thing, it is a tendency of air cooling.  And a LOT of people have a LOT more than 100,000 miles on their air cooled motors without bothering with heads. If you need a 250,000 mile head, air cooled may not be the best choice. The new motor with the oil cooled exhaust has the potential for a very long life. We will know more in ten years.

C: I really enjoy the bikes. If the air cooled aspect means servicing the head a bit more often, so be it. Besides, they are generally VERY easy to work on. Just like tube versus tubeless. I will not reject an enjoyable ride because a bike has tube tires. I have seen people do that. Bizarre.

D: The design is decades old. The only real 'hiccup' was the 2003-2004 hydraulic lifter, (which I am running). They run. They are easy to fix.

IMHO and all that....

 

[BRIO]

I've got a long time to go before I hit 100000. I like the idea that I have the previous generation pushrod engine. Looking forward to check the tappet clearances for the first time.


Thanks for the info!

[Xlratr]

Interesting development. Just took bike out for a gallop and it's going to need a new map. Although Guzzi use the same GRS8V-03 map for both flat and roller tappet bikes running open loop there are obviously big differences in how the engine is breathing.especiall y at the top end. Some logging work will tell the story but probably the last 15% or so of throttle, especially in the lower gears, it's like running into a brick wall! Feels like it's going lean but I'm not going to call that,I'll wait for the log data.

Pete

Any update on this Pete? Did you log it or do any remapping? I'm curious to know what the fuelling impacts of the Roller Conversion might be.

John

[Vasco DG]

Patience grasshopper! Mark is currently trying to finish off a 'Noisy Moron' map for someone and as mentioned above my bike is 'Hors de Combat' at the moment. Hopefully when my old shitter is up and running again I can get some logging work done as a preliminary to re-writing all the current maps to a 'Roller' configuration but remember both Mark and I have real JOBS and this stuff is both time consuming and costly.

Apart from anything else we both like our wimmins and enjoy spending our spare time with them as well as playing Leather-Clad God of Speed cum Nerdy Computer Geek! Whether the wimmins feel the same way is of course open to debate!

Pete