NGC- Drones interfering with fire fighting planes

[Gliderjohn]

If you all have seen any recent news on S. Cal fires you would have seen where five drones flew into the flight paths of the air tankers delaying their drops for 25 minutes. This is not a good sign concerning drones. Hate to see this sort of thing because the drones can be so useful and show much promise but these behaviors screw it all up. Apparently there is going to have to be some serious prosecutions to get these jerks' attention. My rant of the day!
GliderJohn

[yogidozer]

I hope they can be traced back to the owners. Wonder if they are part of the news media?

[dee g]

hate to say this, but I hope that the FAA will put some regs in place before someone gets hurt/killed.  But i don't see that as a deterrent. 

[Mayor_of_BBQ]

I posted about this in the drone gun thread that was deleted. It's a problem.  Hobby stuff is great, but there will be a serious accident caused by a yahoo with a drone before any real restrictions are put in place.

[Gliderjohn]

Restrictions and guidelines are already well into the planning stages however I am concerned how well they will be followed, how traceable violators will be and how severely they will be dealt with when found. That also goes for the A-holes flashing lasers at aircraft. Jet engines will not eat drones well.
GliderJohn

[acogoff]

    Only solution I can see is some type of jamming device on the water bombers that will make the drones loose signal and then command them to drop like a big chunk of plastic bird crap, wrecking them in the process.

[kirby1923]

Maybe a nose gunner with a  maduce.

I can't imagine what will happen when gravity can be neutralized!!!

[rodekyll]

I think one of the problems is going to be when people get annoyed like I did when I pulled my .44 (written up in deleted thread).  Slugs go a far distance when fired upward.  The safety warning on a .22LR says it's got a mile range.  Bigger loads in bigger calibers have more.  That's the other reason we don't wing shoot with slugs.  Instead we use a scoop of shot pellets that have a range of 100yd or so.  So please, if you do decide to bring one down, in the interest of public safety, use the Mossberg, not the Mauser (changed by spellcheck to 'mouser'). 

[canuguzzi]

    Only solution I can see is some type of jamming device on the water bombers that will make the drones loose signal and then command them to drop like a big chunk of plastic bird crap, wrecking them in the process.

Unintended consequences, the drone hits something after being jammed and that is what causes the more significant damage or injury. There is no easy solution, the genie is out of the bottle. Our system of dealing with rapidadvances in technology is outdated.

[guzzisteve]

New reality show on TV called "The Drone Catchers" coming soon.

[Wayne Orwig]

I hope they can be traced back to the owners. Wonder if they are part of the news media?

If it was news media, as in commercial, the FAA can come down on them hard. If it was hobbyists, it gets a bit complicated.
No matter what, the FAA controls the air space. A 'public hanging' so to speak might not ne a bad thing.

[Mayor_of_BBQ]

If it was news media, as in commercial, the FAA can come down on them hard. If it was hobbyists, it gets a bit complicated.
No matter what, the FAA controls the air space. A 'public hanging' so to speak might not ne a bad thing.

In this case, in CA, all the news stations have and deploy news helicopters for covering stuff like this & (daily) car chases...  In a smaller news market, however... I bet you will see local TV news using them pretty heavily soon.

[kirby1923]

I know nothing!

[canuguzzi]

I think one of the problems is going to be when people get annoyed like I did when I pulled my .44 (written up in deleted thread).  Slugs go a far distance when fired upward.  The safety warning on a .22LR says it's got a mile range.  Bigger loads in bigger calibers have more.  That's the other reason we don't wing shoot with slugs.  Instead we use a scoop of shot pellets that have a range of 100yd or so.  So please, if you do decide to bring one down, in the interest of public safety, use the Mossberg, not the Mauser (changed by spellcheck to 'mouser').

Air soft. There are some very good ones out there that can easily bring down a drone as they are semi and full auto, fire a biodegradable 6mm BB and are very accurate. Non-lethal, so quiet no one knows you even fired it and just enough to hose down a drone.

[Lannis]

Air soft. There are some very good ones out there that can easily bring down a drone as they are semi and full auto, fire a biodegradable 6mm BB and are very accurate. Non-lethal, so quiet no one knows you even fired it and just enough to hose down a drone.

Apparently attitudes are changing VERY quickly with the times, I'm glad to say.

Was only a few months ago when someone posted a sort of "Drones Are Coming And There's Nothing You Can Do About It" thread, upon which my posts became heavy with #6 shot, full chokes, and 32" barrels.

I was damned up street and down alley for being a superstitious, hopeless vandal, fighting a Luddite rearguard action against progressiveness and technology ....

And now look!   Turns out I was in the vanguard.   I'll still shoot any one of them that comes into range over my property, and will debate about the propriety of spying only while standing next to the scattered remains .....

Lannis

[Rough Edge racing]

 Geez Lannis you're clairvoyant    Plenty of crazies where I live that would just love to shoot a drone if it got close enough.

[gerryp]

If you all have seen any recent news on S. Cal fires you would have seen where five drones flew into the flight paths of the air tankers delaying their drops for 25 minutes. This is not a good sign concerning drones. Hate to see this sort of thing because the drones can be so useful and show much promise but these behaviors screw it all up. Apparently there is going to have to be some serious prosecutions to get these jerks' attention. My rant of the day!
GliderJohn

even worse....we had some total asshole here in Ct mount a hand gun to one and he posted video of it firing at a target.

Video of gun-shooting drone in Clinton prompts FAA investigation
Josh Scheinblum, WTNH Reporter and WTNH.com Staff
Published: July 17, 2015, 10:27 pm  Updated: July 19, 2015, 10:23 am
34Click to share on Twitter (Opens in new window)34 Click to share on Google+ (Opens in new window) 999Share on Facebook (Opens in new window)999 Click to share on Pinterest (Opens in new window)

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CLINTON, Conn. (WTNH) � The FAA is investigating after a video of a drone shooting a hand gun in Clinton, apparently created by a local teen, was posted to YouTube. You may think military officials are the only people who can legally have a machine like this but Clinton Police tell News 8 what is seen in the video doesn�t appear to violate any state laws.

Bill Piedra is CEO of a Manchester based company called Flying Robots. He is also a drone enthusiast who, as part of his business, constructs drones that deliver flotation devices to people in danger of drowning, but with this video he has concerns it may have ramifications for his entire industry.

�It�s shocking,� said Piedra. �I really hope it doesn�t inhibit the continued development of drones for good purposes.�

The teen behind the video is Austin Haughwout of Clinton. You may remember him from another drone YouTube video that surfaced last year where he claimed to have been attacked by a woman who thought he was using his drone to record her at Hammonasset State Park. Sunday, News 8 spoke to Haughwout�s father about this latest situation and were told it�s his belief his son did nothing wrong.

Connecticut lawyer and drone advocate Peter Sachs disagrees. He thinks Haughwout may have violated federal aviation laws.

�I think they might have something legal to worry about,� said Sachs.

�The FAA will investigate the operation of an unmanned aircraft system in a Connecticut park to determine if any Federal Aviation Regulations were violated,� the FAA said in a statement. �The FAA will also work with its law enforcement partners to determine if there were any violations of criminal statutes.�

[Arizona Wayne]

 I get a good laugh out of those Bridgestone golfball drone TV adds. 

[charlie b]

The problem here is in large part due to youtube.  All these people hear about getting huge dollar payouts if they make a viral video.  So, idiots go out with cameras all over the place with complete disregard for their and other people's safety.

The drones are just another way for these idiots to get their moment of fame.

There are already pretty strict FAA guidelines for flying of drones, ie, radio controlled model aircraft.  What needs to happen is a few of these people need to be taken to court, fined and/or sent to jail.  Then someone needs to sue their pants off just for good measure.

Until then every kid above the age of 5 up to 80 is going to be flying these annoying things all over the place.

[rodekyll]

And there are very strict rules regarding dropping objects or shooting from an aircraft.  The handgun idiot might not have violated CT law, but the FAA will be all over that.  If they don't it's just a matter of time before gang violence is all RC.

[Penderic]

Certainly those copter jockeys should be found, fined and re-grooved for interfering with emergency civil operations. Yes indeed.

But please don't say that all drones are bad and they should be blowed up! (made illegal)

Maybe its time to fight fire with er, fire?

 

[Lannis]

Certainly those copter jockeys should be found, fined and re-grooved for interfering with emergency civil operations. Yes indeed.

But please don't say that all drones are bad and they should be blowed up! (made illegal)

Maybe its time to fight fire with er, fire?

 

Of course we're not gonna blow 'em ALL up, just the ones that are misused and misbehaving; and it sounds like there's plenty of scope there.

If they figure out how to make them carry a fire hose to the 20th floor, or follow Lassie back to the well and pull Timmy out, then they'll be our friends ....

Lannis

[jdgretz]

One of my friends is marketing a drone system for SAR.  It does grid searches, and can locate missing folks by a combination of thermal and digital image recognition.  GPS marks the spot and the rescue folks get to do their thing much quicker.

He is also working with the FAA on regulations as his work falls in a current grey area not covered by either hobby or large drone regulations.

Interesting stuff.

jdg

[Wayne Orwig]

The problem here is in large part due to youtube.  All these people hear about getting huge dollar payouts if they make a viral video.  So, idiots go out with cameras all over the place with complete disregard for their and other people's safety.

Some people shouldn't be a part of the human race in that regard.

http://www.wsbtv.com/news/news/national/man-films-fatal-crash-without-helping-sells-it-pro/nm2Sf/

[tris]

It strikes me that if you can gyro stabilise them and make them "return to home" it wouldn't be beyond the wit of man to put some software on board that limits the height to 100 feet (say)

Sure some people will hack them to remove this restriction but the bulk of the Muppets will be ham strung

It would keep the drones out of the way of most aircraft I would think, plus it would put them in range of those of you with more creative solutions   

[Sasquatch Jim]

It wouldn't be too hard to home build an air gun from pvc that would shoot a special nerf tipped projectile, (for safety to prevent collateral
damage) that would itself be a tube.  The forward end nerf tipped, plastic arrow fletching that lays against the projectile until it leaves the barrel, and string inside the projectile that would pay out spinning reel style when it is shot.
 If it passes through the area of the rotors the string entangles them.  Even if it doesn't stop the rotor it will slow it down making it out of sync with the others and the drone will tumble from the sky. A plastic cigar tube could serve as the projectile and could carry 100 feet of string that would trail behind paying out as it flew.  This could bring down a drone from as much as 300 feet high yet would do vitually no damage to anything it hit on its' way back down.  Just be ready to deal with a pissed off drone pilot.

[kevdog3019]

You guys have a lot of time on your hands. I have yet to see a drone. I'm really not too concerned about drones over my house as there's not much information to be gained that google maps can't already supply. They won't even know I have Guzzi's in the garage. From the ground level my neighbors are far more about what's lurking in my garage, etc. as well as my habits of coming and going.

[Lannis]

You guys have a lot of time on your hands. I have yet to see a drone. I'm really not too concerned about drones over my house as there's not much information to be gained that google maps can't already supply. They won't even know I have Guzzi's in the garage. From the ground level my neighbors are far more about what's lurking in my garage, etc. as well as my habits of coming and going.

I think it's more that we're responding to the tone and the implications of "The Drones Are Coming" threads.   

Not so much on this one, but some folks (probably just to wind us up) are like "Look at this new drone technology, they're coming, you can't do anything about it, they'll soon be invincible and omnipresent, so get used to no privacy ever".     

So some of us respond with "Here's why that's not going to happen in MY space", with ever-escalating results.   

Just fun and games.   You're right, most of us will never see one.   Could be a Hula-Hoop type toy fad ....

Lannis

[charlie b]

It strikes me that if you can gyro stabilise them and make them "return to home" it wouldn't be beyond the wit of man to put some software on board that limits the height to 100 feet (say)

Sure some people will hack them to remove this restriction but the bulk of the Muppets will be ham strung

It would keep the drones out of the way of most aircraft I would think, plus it would put them in range of those of you with more creative solutions   

Some of them already do.  We found out the hard way when using one on the test range (it had a laser target on int).  At 2000ft AGL it turned itself off.  Great bit of wreckage.  Glad it was a funded program cause it cost us $5k to learn that lesson.  We did talk to the mfg and they made a simple change that it would just not climb any more than 2000ft AGL.  Turned out we were the first customers to hit that altitude.

Yes, some of us have been 'buzzed' by the things.  They have some good uses, but, they can also be used inappropriately/illegally.

[toaster404]

One of my too-many jobs is as an attorney.  I am really curious about how the legal aspects of drone use will work out.  Not holding my breath. 

1.  Licensing
2.  Trespass (when is a drone overflying and when is it on private property? Is it an airplane or like noxious fumes?)
3.  Liability (when is someone liable?  When is the manufacturer liable?)
4.  Human v. software control
5.  Trace (Should each drone be required to have a transponder with identifier?)
6.  Invasion of privacy (peeping)
7.  Industrial espionage (expect to see them quietly sneaking into factories and the like)

And so on.  When can I shoot one down? (Technical aspects don't concern me - I have the equipment!)  Can the authorities shoot one down?

I expect to see intentional drone suicide attacks where debris will cause issues.  This is really of concern for airports.  Getting one into the flightpath is hard, but brings up the coming issue of coordinated swarms, which raises the level of threat immensely.

Killing individuals will also start eventually.

Add the problems posed by first person fliers.  A model airplane moving 200 mph has tremendous energy and already seems too dangerous for public use, but they're out and about. 

Odd laws are already happening.  Can't use drones in TN to spy on people hunting and fishing.  No idea why!!

Regardless, we'll see these issues popping up.  I saw a mid size one in use flying from a parking area in the mountains here, going way out across a valley and way up, right into airspace I've seen military helicopters in.  Nobody controls, no transponder.  I imagine a jet engine would not ingest one of those well.