There is that certain something about the 1151cc two valve engine

[ohiorider]

I am fortunate to have one of each ..... the 1151 two valve in my 2008 1200 Sport, and the 1151 four valve in my Griso 8vSE.  After several years of ownership, I personally prefer the more gentle (maybe a better description is 'more linear') power generation of the 2 valve design. 

Though I know it will never happen, I would love a 2v 1151cc 'standard' bike.  I don't consider the 1200 Sport a standard, nor do I consider the Breva1100 a standard.  I guess what I'm wanting is a bike with more conventional styling, and a sit on vs a sit in design (ie non-BMW in appearance.)

Oh, well ,,,, thoughts like this occur after a day in the saddle of the 1200 Sport.  Day started with a short run to breakfast (70 miles round trip.)  That obviously wasn't enough, since I gassed up and headed out again for another 170 miles.  Love the Sport  ...... seems to generate the right amount of power, gear ratios are perfect for power output, and that old pushrod mill wants to rev no matter where on the tach I start.  But all I can picture is what a nice combo the old 2v 1151 would be in more of a standard or retro bike.

[guzzisteve]

Too bad they don't make a 2V motor but the V7. Like the Tonti frame, it's time has passed.
Sad.

[beetle]

The 2V big block is dead. Long live the 4V. 

[Kiwi Dave]

Long live the 4V.

That seems to be the problem, from what I'm observing.

[beetle]

Taken out of context, sure. Fueled by the bubbling hysteria that fuels the interwebs, all flat-tappet Quattro-valvole big blocks will certainly explode, sending you off the the ER with a rod up the chuff.

[canuguzzi]

Taken out of context, sure. Fueled by the bubbling hysteria that fuels the interwebs, all flat-tappet Quattro-valvole big blocks will certainly explode, sending you off the the ER with a rod up the chuff.

No doubt while removing said rod, the Nurse will ask, "is that a 2 valve?" and the Surgeon will reply " No, damn thing is a quattro, give me another set of forceps, this is coming out sideways"

[beetle]

Tee hee! 

[Triple Jim]

With the success of the current standard small blocks, you'd think a big block version would sell like crazy too.

[not-fishing]

SHHHHHHHHHH!

I love my 1100 2v Griso.

Please let the 2v become less desirable meaning cheaper used for me.

I want a 2V Quota to hack, then a 2V Norge and maybe a 2V Stelvio............ ...

I'm very happy not to have to deal with the added expense of a 4v.

I've always figured it's the Indian not the Arrow.

Mark

[Gliderjohn]

I have not had the opportunity to ride a later model 2V but damn I don't know how you would much improve the power and how it is delivered on my Norge 8V GT(4V). I would guess the 2V is closer to my T-3 as in a very linear power band, as in comparison my Norge 8V has a clear "kick" at around 5K rpm. Oh hell, they are all fun! Both my Norge and the T-3 put smiles on my face when riding. Both have their own charm and soul. 
GliderJohn

[beetle]

My hobby is to make the kick begone. A linear powered 8V makes a 2V seem slow. Just sayin.

[Vasco DG]

All of the worry about the 'Complexity' of the 8V is blown out of all proportion. There are some though who simply won't believe the evidence of their own eyes, or they choose not to look.

I love the old big blocks. But they are obsolete and dirty and won't cut it as even an 'Average' performer when stacked up against just about anything else on the market and therefore won't sell to yer average Joe. Without sales, the marque dies!

Yes, in certain climates and under certain conditions the flat tappet 8V's can have problems. I would certainly advise anybody thinking of buying an 8V bike to buy a roller bike if possible and if they can't? Well make sure that the flat tappet bike you buy has a full service history OR the price is adjusted further to ensure that IF the tappets go tits the cost of replacement is covered. At the end of the day though the tappet issue is no worse than things that affect a host of other machines and at least the 8V is simple to work on.

I think it's a great design. Certainly its power and performance far outshine the old 2VPC engine in any iteration. If others prefer the old donk? That's fine. But it ain't coming back. Get used to it.

Pete

[canuguzzi]

My hobby is to make the kick begone. A linear powered 8V makes a 2V seem slow. Just sayin.

 :1:

Makes the 8v Norge seem like a very quick and fast locomotive. It pulls from the moment the engine starts and never seems to stop with no jumps, kicks or stomps in between. Plus, no rods to pull out.

You did say that and yes, it is true.

[boatdetective]

Pete,

I certainly know the diff between flat and roller tappets. However, can you please mention the conditions that can lead to damage in the flat tappets 4V engines? Is it merely wear on the valve stem?  Getting 100% service info may be difficult for some of us who might be looking at these early 4V that are coming on the market.  Would you be able to offer a "buyer's guide" of things to look out for? Last, what are your thoughts about buying a 4V flat and converting over as an owner project (cost, complexity)? I'm not that confident with my local dealer and prefer to do my own work anyway.

Thank you!

[tpeever]

My hobby is to make the kick begone. A linear powered 8V makes a 2V seem slow. Just sayin.

I really appreciate that you guys are working to make the 8Vs (and all FI Guzzis) run a lot better and I don't doubt that they are faster bikes. However, my 2V 1200 Sport she be plenty fast for me!!! Feels like a rocket compared to my Commando!! It's all relative.

[tpeever]

Oh, well ,,,, thoughts like this occur after a day in the saddle of the 1200 Sport.  Day started with a short run to breakfast (70 miles round trip.)  That obviously wasn't enough, since I gassed up and headed out again for another 170 miles.  Love the Sport  ...... seems to generate the right amount of power, gear ratios are perfect for power output, and that old pushrod mill wants to rev no matter where on the tach I start.  But all I can picture is what a nice combo the old 2v 1151 would be in more of a standard or retro bike.

Couldn't agree more!! Love my 1200 Sport too. Great bike. Took it over the North Cascades Highway of WA about 3 weeks ago and it was perfect. I don't have an 8V Guzzi to compare with, nor have I ever ridden one. The 2V motor generates plenty of power for real world riding for me. Now I need to load a better fuel map to make it run even better!!

[Vasco DG]

Pete,

I certainly know the diff between flat and roller tappets. However, can you please mention the conditions that can lead to damage in the flat tappets 4V engines? Is it merely wear on the valve stem?  Getting 100% service info may be difficult for some of us who might be looking at these early 4V that are coming on the market.  Would you be able to offer a "buyer's guide" of things to look out for? Last, what are your thoughts about buying a 4V flat and converting over as an owner project (cost, complexity)? I'm not that confident with my local dealer and prefer to do my own work anyway.

Thank you!

Check yer PM's

[beetle]

I'm pleased 2V owners are content. I don't have a problem with the 2V engine. I've lost count of the number of times people have written that the 2V has better torque than the 8V. It's simply not true. I'll add the caveat that the stock mapping of the 8V may have contributed to that meme. The non-linear power delivery of a stock 8V map is the culprit. A properly mapped 8V is better. End.

[lorazepam]

I would love to have a proper map for my V7 stone. 

[Vasco DG]

Look, we are trying to get the ducks all in a row but it's not the easiest thing in the world. To do what has to be done not only do I need Mark to come and hold my hand, (He lives far enough away to be in a different country in Europe!) but we need to have examples of the bikes we are trying to understand on hand. That means not only teeing us and the hardware for reading the procedures up but also two busy people and a willing owner or two who are happy to have their bikes used as guinea pigs.

I know it is frustrating having to wait but how's about taking on board a bit of what is involved at our end? We are really interested and we DO want to help but we can't just wave a bloody magic wand!

Pete

[lorazepam]

Look, we are trying to get the ducks all in a row but it's not the easiest thing in the world. To do what has to be done not only do I need Mark to come and hold my hand, (He lives far enough away to be in a different country in Europe!) but we need to have examples of the bikes we are trying to understand on hand. That means not only teeing us and the hardware for reading the procedures up but also two busy people and a willing owner or two who are happy to have their bikes used as guinea pigs.

I know it is frustrating having to wait but how's about taking on board a bit of what is involved at our end? We are really interested and we DO want to help but we can't just wave a bloody magic wand!

Pete

Heck I will ship you my TB and module when winter comes if it will help. I would be there today if I were on the same continent. I understand the hard work you guys do, and most of it is way over my head, and it is very much appreciated. It was not my intention to offend, and I wish I could be of assistance in any way.

[ohiorider]

Didn't want to bring this back to page one, but after reading all the responses, I started thinking (not too dangerous when it's me!)  ..................
- For my purposes, if the 8v engine on my Griso had a 'heavier' flywheel effect, it might suit me better.
- If the drivetrain on my Griso was identical to the two plate clutch (1200S) and had the same cush drive, it might work better for me.
- If I owned an 8 valve 1200 Sport vs a Griso, I might lean more favorably toward the 8v engine.
I think what I like about the 2v 1151 is the rather lazy lope the engine has when loafing along on the bike.  But she'll come nicely alive when given the whip.  I agree with Beetle, the 8v engine has more torque available at any rpm range vs my 2v.  I'm running whatever stock map came with the 2012 Griso 8vSE built in either late 2011 or early 2012, and it doesn't exhibit the characteristics often noted about the 8v, ie, that it really comes alive at 5000rpm.  My Griso comes alive anywhere above 3000 rpm and pulls hard enough in 2nd and 3rd I fear a high speed wheelie (probably my imagination, especially with that wheelbase!)

Anyway, my intent wasn't to claim the 2v was a higher-performance engine than the 8v.  Simply to say there are things I like about the feel of the 2v, even though it is certainly slower throughout the rev range when compared to the 8v.

[Kiwi Dave]

Anyway, my intent wasn't to claim the 2v was a higher-performance engine than the 8v.  Simply to say there are things I like about the feel of the 2v, even though it is certainly slower throughout the rev range when compared to the 8v.

And this is the dilemma that Moto Guzzi faces taking the 2V big block off the market.  There are many of us here that are riding models from last century, and (dare I say it?) most have no interest in the new fangled models, similar to the thinking of the Airhead group among the BMW brand.

This is reflected in my motorcycle rental business, it's always the older EV Tourings that are the favourites, CARC models hardly ever get to go out the door.  If I had a few T3s or even a couple of loop frame models, I might even be able to scrap up an income out of this business, but it is not to be.

[Dean Rose]

I've got the '06 Breva 1100 and a '02 EV I love both of them. If I could I would have one of the 8 Valve Breva 1200s that they sold in Europe setup like my Breva 1100.


Dean

[SteveRivet]

Couldn't agree more!! Love my 1200 Sport too. Great bike. Took it over the North Cascades Highway of WA about 3 weeks ago and it was perfect. I don't have an 8V Guzzi to compare with, nor have I ever ridden one. The 2V motor generates plenty of power for real world riding for me. Now I need to load a better fuel map to make it run even better!!

+1 for me.  I really like the power delivery and smoothness on it, and it's plenty fast.

Steve

[rdbandkab]

I'd like my old 06 Breva 2 plate clutch installed in my  13 NTX please.

[Vasco DG]

I'd like my old 06 Breva 2 plate clutch installed in my  13 NTX please.

Why? It wouldn't last very long.

Pete

[Sheepdog]

I've no doubt the 4-valve is a great format. However, I'm still very pleased with my old 2-valve and I'm really not ready for something newer. Besides, I still get a kick out of staring at my Vintage as it sits in my shop...it looks like a classic to me.

[beetle]

And this is the dilemma that Moto Guzzi faces taking the 2V big block off the market.

It's hardly a dilemma for Guzzi. It's only those desperately hanging onto the old days that are having a 'dilemma'.

The 2V big block is dead. Get over it.   

[Vasco DG]

ARRRGH!

What is it with this 'Simplicity/Complexity' argument! Both of them are delightfully simple machines, just different. Yes, there are a couple of steps needed to whip a head off an 8V that aren't needed on a 4V. You know what? There are a couple of steps needed on the 4V that aren't needed on the 8V!

Really, apart from un-hooking the cam chain sprockets from the cams, (Pulling a wheel off a stick is *Hard*? Or *Complex*?) the top end is virtually identical in terms of ease!

The only thing you have to fear is fear itself.

Really!

Pete