Changing air filter & speedo cable makes stator / rotor fail ?

[normzone]

While I was in the Bassa yesterday I swapped out the P.O.s air filter. All my google hits for the P/N on it were in Italian. It was composed of both screen and papyrus, oiled for your safety.

Now that it's safely in the dumpster, it looks as though it was a highly desirable racing item, washable and reusable, if I'm to believe the blurbs I'm seeing while I try to recreate my google search of yesterday.

And the paper element I replaced it with is spoken of disparagingly.

BUT THE BIKE RUNS SO MUCH BETTER ! It can't the be speedometer cable I changed, I refuse to believe that. But the bike is running as well as it did when I first got it 1 1/2 years ago.

What do you guys use for your bikes, and what is your recommended service interval ?

[sib]

Some folks want to modify everything that can be modified, and that's their privilege.  However, I've seen nothing to convince me that plain old vanilla OEM paper air filters aren't the best.  They filter smaller particles, they have better air flow, and, best of all, when you want to replace one, they're cheap.

[Vasco DG]

You're missing the point. If you want to 'Unlock' the 'Secrets' of your bikes magical power increase an *Expert* will tell you it's vital to 'Let it breathe more air'! And apparently rocks, small birds, false teeth and any other dangerous garbage that will happily wend it's way through a shitty labyrinth filter.

I would say that though because I don't know what I'm talking about........

Pete

[Zoom Zoom]

I use the paper filter myself. You might look at the tips page. Something makes me think there was a cross reference for it. I like to keep a spare on hand and replace that when I need.

ZZ

[mtiberio]

I had a mouse nest in my airbox. Removing that helped.

[normzone]

" Lose Twenty Pounds in One Week - Burn Annoying Belly Fat and Unlock the Secrets of your bike's magical power increase  - *Experts* will tell you how to 'Let it breathe more air'!

[rocker59]

Although I have to admit that I've been running a K&N filter in my Sport 1100 for the past dozen years, I've run OEM paper elements in everything else.

However,  I'd recommend an OEM paper element to anyone who asks.  The OEM paper elements have lots of folds and pass plenty of air while filtering very fine particles.  And they're cheap.  You can change them more often than recommended, if you like, but I don't

[twhitaker]

The K&N filter is 33-2682, and crosses w/ Fiat part number "Fiat 4434868"

[Dave Bell]

Paper.  I have read engineering reports going back 20 years about the problems with fancy aftermarket air filters not filtering very well.  The best, if I recall, was in aviation consumer news.  Also Motorcycle consumer news perhaps. 

[Zoom Zoom]

" Lose Twenty Pounds in One Week - Burn Annoying Belly Fat and Unlock the Secrets of your bike's magical power increase  - *Experts* will tell you how to 'Let it breathe more air'!

But wait. Call in the next ten minutes and receive not one, but two miracle treatments. Just pay separate handling and processing. Act now. Operators are standing by.

ZZ

[normzone]

Yeah...you think you're kidding, but I swear a lean popping after getting off a freeway run is gone, and the flat spots in my acceleration are gone also.

But let me drive it home in this weather and I'll confirm or deny that.

But it's just ridiculous how much better it runs. The only other thing that improves performance this much is washing the bike.

[guzzi4me]

But it's just ridiculous how much better it runs. The only other thing that improves performance this much is washing the bike.

What is this "washing" you speak of??????

Ride safe and often,

Jeff

[Rich A]

So, what do y'all think happened? Does the paper filter flow more air (it's a little hard to imagine that flowing less air would be beneficial)? Different aerodynamics (dunno how or why that would factor in)?

What's the explanation?

Rich A

[Moto Fugazzi]

Yes, I took off the K&N pods from my V11 Sport that the PO installed, and installed the airbox and a stock paper filter. Runs much better.
Ken

[normzone]

Well, it's official. My leaned out miss after getting off the freeway is gone. Temperature has dropped a few degrees, so maybe not conclusive.

But the flat spots in my acceleration are gone. Gone, gone, gone. WTF ?

And here's one I'll HAVE TO figure out. The charging light is on.

[Zoom Zoom]

Though it is not too unusual to see the charge light at idle, I would be concerned if it is on all the time. You may be running on the battery. Is there a chance that while routing the speedo cable somethi8ng came unplugged at the voltage regulator?

John Henry

[leafman60]

Air filter threads can be like oil threads.

Although I don't use them on all my machines, I have and do use cotton gauze and synthetic gauze filters on motorcycles for years with great results and with no problems.

I've seen all the "scientific" testing bantered about on both sides of the issue.

[tris]

You're missing the point. If you want to 'Unlock' the 'Secrets' of your bikes magical power increase an *Expert* will tell you it's vital to 'Let it breathe more air'! And apparently rocks, small birds, false teeth and any other dangerous garbage that will happily wend it's way through a shitty labyrinth filter.

I would say that though because I don't know what I'm talking about........

Pete

It always surprises me that the many highly trained engineers at the OEMs development site know less than the Oike in the housing estate

Why by changing the air filter and exhaust and fitting a magnet to the fuel pipe BHP can easily be doubled 

While I'm on a rant - what's all the noise about re Max BHP all about

It strikes me that 99.999999999% of users will get more out of a low end RPM Torque lift than they ever will out of a max RPM BHP rise

But still - each to their own

Rant off 

[toaster404]

Nothing in isolation, that's for sure.  I've had good success with increasing through-put, but it has taken intake opening, high-flow filter (just a bigger element will do), changes in fueling, and a more open exhaust, all in a nice balance.  Can certainly help things, especially in combination with getting the mixture out of the typical too-lean stock range, but is a lot of trouble to get right!  At the moment, my 1400 is stock, but clearly runs lean and has a high-restriction exhaust; VL800 is stock breathing and exhaust, but tweaked jets and needle; VStar 250 is stock; and the VStrom 1000 has some kind of power commander, a K&N filter, and some fancy exhausts.  I didn't do the 1000, it came that way, but a very sharp mechanic set it up, and it's been to Alaska and back, so it is probably OK!!!!

Never have found that single quick fix, except running 100% gas in some bikes, mainly the carbed ones.

[leafman60]

It always surprises me that the many highly trained engineers at the OEMs development site know less than the Oike in the housing estate

Well OEM engineers work within different parameters/restraints than the Okie. OEM must produce a machine that works within the regulatory guidelines for noise and pollution emissions as well as often conservative reliability standards due to OEM warranty liabilities.

OEM is not always best for the performance-minded rider.

[MariusD]

Not surprised at all...

Better flowing filter means more air and without a coresponding correction via an increase in fuel you simply end up with a leaner mixture which hinders power and drivability. This is why it's not a good idea to simply slap performance parts on an engine and expect power gains without also correcting fuel. In your case, by sticking in the paper filter you essentially "corrected" the fuel air mixture back to normal and so the bike runs better as a result. As it should.

[rboe]

I've been told the snorkel on my Griso constricts its' breathing by being too small. But the bike ran so well inspite of this I ignored it. Then I bought a F150 with the 3.5L twin turbo ecoBoost motor. I inspected the "snorkel" for it, just about the same size as the Griso's. I can not convince me that a 1.2 Liter normally aspirated engine is going to need more air than a 3.5 liter turbo charged; even with a 6000 rpm limit.

Now I'm sure there are performance gains to be made, but I strongly suspect one gives up reliability to do so. Even if I had the skills to handle this power increase I'm pretty sure it would be cheaper to just buy a bike with more power (and the built in reliability).

After my paper filter on the Edge got clogged by pollen after cruising through Kansas and Nebraska (noted the gas mileage decrease - it was a new filter before the trip) and replacing with a new paper element I'll keep with paper. I ran a K&N on my old 550, but she had carbs and life was simpler back then. :)

[normzone]

The bike is an odd bird to me, but probably no surprise to any of you. Stock motor, aftermarket pipes, Power Commander III, stock map as far as I know. It runs visibly rich at the pipe end and visibly lean on one side of the plug and somewhere between rich and right on the other side of the plug.

Cooler temperatures this morning, cloudy, and happy engine, although minor traces of my lean pop at low rpm after getting off a twenty minute 75 mph run.

Oh, and the charging light ? Off. Gone. I wonder if it's heat related. This afternoon will tell.     

[Spuddy]

I just LOVE air filter threads!

Oh. I forgot to clean the K&N in the Duramax...

Spud

[normzone]

As [rboe] said, it was simpler then.

My Eldo came with K&Ns, and I cleaned them once, oiled them, and forgot about them for a decade. The bike ran great.

[toaster404]

Intake design is rather interesting.  Ducting makes a great deal of difference with ram flow.  See, e.g., http://www.ch601.org/resources/cooling/DuctDesign.GIF

The air filters are all of great area compared to that required for the air flow, but designers often put surprisingly small holes allowing air in.  Just cutting out these restrictions seems to have an effect.  Most of the concern lies downstream of the filter, and most of that downstream of the butterfly (see, e.g., http://www.academia.edu/4839777/Intake_Manifold_Design_using_Computational_Fluid_Dynamics).

What always amazes me is how small the real exhaust pipes are compared to the air filters! 

I suspect that opening up the box on the outside air side helps as much or more than a K&N type filter.  And that designing a duct that would deliver a bit more air pressure at speed might help.  Better yet, adapt a box with 2x the area of filter and you're way ahead. 


As an aside, I worked on a fluid (including air) cleaning system that involved a way oversize intake box that used votex generators to create steady state vortices within suitably curved portions of the system.  These curved sections had numerous small holes connected to a low pressure plenum.  Moisture droplets or the larger particulates would be swept out.  The system was surprisingly effective, and in a moving vehicle enough low pressure was developed passively to suck the unwanted things outside.  I never have seen this in practical use, but I suspect it ended up somewhere!

[normzone]

So, the tale continues...The bike runs FREAKING GREAT.

Yesterday, hot and sunny, I notice the charging light is on when I'm pulling into the home base. Note to self, figure that out.

This morning, cloudy and cool at dawn patrol, no charging light, healthy turnover. No charging light enroute to the target or at shutdown after my run.

So I think " Temperature related ? WTF ? Figure this out. "

I come out to start the bike to go home, and no charge light, but turnover is just a trifle slower than usual. I make plans to monitor charge light on the way home. Which I do - no charge light showing.

So at a healthy, happy 75 mph in my flight corridor the bike goes " meh..." and starts running on one cylinder. Doesn't sound like a fuel sputter, but I respond as though it is, take the fortuitous exit to a downhill gas station. I add fuel and it's evident that's not my problem - it only takes a couple of gallons.

I press starter button and CLICK - silence.

After one tow truck and a double moonshine on ice here I sit...

[Kiwi_Roy]

Perhaps the cylinder cutting out was from low Voltage. the battery may pick up some Volts overnight.
Check the alternator for ~ 70 Volts AC when you blip the throttle.
Low Ohms between the two yellows, they sometimes snap off where they are soldered to the coils.
Check the regulator connections for signs of a bad joint, dis-coulored plastic.
The regulator has to have 12 Volts on the black wire, check that, it comes from the headlight circuit which is triggered by the normally closed contact of the start relay.

The charge light is next to useless, It won't tell you if there is no Voltage on the regulator.
Do you have an extra ground wire on the regulator, if it's mot properly grounded the battery looses Voltage.

http://www.thisoldtractor.com/guzzi007/schematics/2000_Bassa.gif

[Aaron D.]

I'm sure you'll figure it out, Norm, but I just have to air my pet peeve-

TAKING THE COVER OFF AN INJECTED GUZZI'S AIRBOX!

I don't mind K&N filters on carbed bikes, but the injected Calis hav such a nice airbox (as far as performance and sound) and those damned K&N adaptors that remove the top so you can stick on a K&N make the thing honk like an overloaded rototiller.

[Chuck in Indiana]

Perhaps the cylinder cutting out was from low Voltage. the battery may pick up some Volts overnight.

Yep, BTDT. The charge light is pretty useless on that system.