running the bike on the center stand in gear

[redrider90]

I am recovering from toxic exposure to mold and lyme disease and have not ridden in 2 years. I have been working on the Mille while I await a hopeful recovery. I am taking some damn strong drugs that screw with my brain.
Question is I regularly start and warm up the Red Italian Stallion for 10 minutes with a high speed fan to cool the headers and such.
But I also run it through the gears and stop it with the foot brake. I might run the bike for 10 minutes and run it through the gears 2 or 3 times never getting above 30 MPH on the speedo. Total time in gear is maybe 2 minutes. 
So I was talking to a fellow WGeezer and he said that maybe running the tranny through the gears on the center stand is not a good idea....U joint???
So what is the answer? Is it a bad idea to run it up and down through the gears while on the center stand?
Still hoping for a full recovery and ride again.   Last time I tried to ride was a mistake.

[Guzzistajohn]

Sounds dangerous to me, if it came off the CC it would be a disaster. I'd sooner ask a buddy to take it out for a spin.

[cruzziguzzi]

I wouldn't do that considering there is no load on the drivetrain and lash/slop/smack-nasties will not be muted by a load.

I also don't see much benefit in running through the gears even if you had a dyno in your basement.

Todd.

[rocker59]

As John mentioned, you have a big risk of disaster, if the bike comes off the stand.

And, as your WGeezer friend mentioned, the driveline will get beat up a bit with no load on it.

[Vasco DG]

While in theory no harm will come once you are above idle with it in gear, (at idle it's a different matter.) it is utterly pointless. Cease and desist.

Pete

[rodekyll]

I think the pounding the drive train bits take would be significant if the rear wheel was in the air.

That said, the only way to do any work off-idle on a Convert is exactly that -- rear wheel up and spinning.  The clutches don't disengage cleanly so clutch lever-in isn't really an option.  We do it sparingly and for no longer than necessary to synch throttles, check alternator, or whatever.

$0.02

[Idontwantapickle]

Red
If you have a buddy you trust with your wife bike that is the best way. But let's not discount the good feeling you get from operating your Mille a little bit. Even if it is just on the stand.
Strictly speaking it is possible to have a truly unfortunate event happen if the bike came off the stand. You might skip the going through the gears part. The wheel probably turns some anyway and as long as the oil moves about you've accomplished all you can without riding it. It takes a good ride under load to ever get the transmission and rear drive up to temp. And the engine too, really.
I hope you recover soon and can get back to riding!

Hunter

[Perazzimx14]

Starting it up not running the motor under load is doing more harm than good as you are not getting the oil up to or even near operating temperature. The oil needs to get to operating temperature to drive off moisture along with any incomplete combustion leftovers from warm-up.  You are far better off letting the bike sit dormant for decades than running/idling every now and then.

The drive line is a whole different kettle of fish.

[atavar]

I have always been told that short runnings during storage do more harm than good.  They build up acids and other corrosives in the fluids and do the various bits and fluids do not get hot enough long enough to boil the bad stuff out.
Advice I have gotten is that the best thing to do for long storage is to change all fluids, either empty or fill and sta-bil the gas tank, make sure petcocks are closed, remove the battery, take the weight off the rubber if possible (and deflate) and protect the whole thing from sunshine and condensation and let it sit high and dry and safe until you can use it.
YMMV - I am not a mechanic

[redrider90]

I always run the bike long enough to bring it up to operating temps. I am well aware of the harm of not getting the engine hot enough to get to full operating temps. Running  10-15 minutes at varying RPMS between 1500-3000 RPMS is long enough to get the engine hot enough in the summer. In the winter I run it longer.
My question was about the drive train. I do not run the drive train longer than to just shift up and down at low RPMS once or twice. All the rest of the time I am running the bike it is in neutral. It is not going to fall off the center stand. If, even at 1000 rpms and running it through the gears is not good then I will not do it. But I always run the bike long enough to bring it to operating temps hence my use of a fan to cool the headers and let the bike get airflow like it was on the road. I always run the carbs dry.
I keep very little gas in it.... enough to run it and then a add fresh gas when I do it again. The bike starts instantly every time I start it.
My only concern was doing damage to the drivetrain. Running the bike regularly and using and lubing the cables and shifter, brake mechanisms and using the electronics is a lot better than letting it sit.

[Perazzimx14]

I always run the bike long enough to bring it up to operating temps. I am well aware of the harm of not getting the engine hot enough to get to full operating temps. Running  10-15 minutes at varying RPMS between 1500-3000 RPMS is long enough to get the engine hot enough in the summer. In the winter I run it longer.
My question was about the drive train. I do not run the drive train longer than to just shift up and down at low RPMS once or twice. All the rest of the time I am running the bike it is in neutral. It is not going to fall off the center stand. If, even at 1000 rpms and running it through the gears is not good then I will not do it. But I always run the bike long enough to bring it to operating temps hence my use of a fan to cool the headers and let the bike get airflow like it was on the road. I always run the carbs dry.

Run your bike for 20 minutes varying the rpm's while on the center stand as you normally do. Then pull the drain plug and you will be surprised how cold the oil is and nowhere near ideal operating temperature. The engine has to be put under load to get up to temperature.   

[Muzz]

As an aside Red, fortunately we don't have Lyme disease out here, but I do have something that mimics it.  My sympathies; sometimes I wonder if the meds are worse than the problem.

[Stormtruck2]

No opinion on your original post Red, just a wish and fervent prayer for your quick and full recovery.

[Rough Edge racing]

 My race bike gets run at the track once or maybe twice a year. Otherwise it's never started. I drain the fuel and  maybe every month or two I rotate the engine a few turns to cycle the valve springs....

[Chuck in Indiana]

I would think the angular deflection on the U joint would not be a good thing. I, personally, wouldn't do it.

[acogoff]

      Think of it as pounding with a couple of two pound hammers one from each way on your drive train as the slack in the train is taken up and then slammed loose again- not good and the guzzi has lots of slack!

[segesta]

You remember what happened to Cameron's dad's Ferrari in "Ferris Bueller's Day Off," right?

Don't do it, and get well soon.

[redrider90]

Run your bike for 20 minutes varying the rpm's while on the center stand as you normally do. Then pull the drain plug and you will be surprised how cold the oil is and nowhere near ideal operating temperature. The engine has to be put under load to get up to temperature.

 If I had enough gas today I would have easily gotten to full operating temp at 15 minutes. But after filling the lawn mower I only had one cup of fuel left so I put it in the Goose and ran it up to 2200 RPMS. It ran dry after 7 minutes. I put a meat thermometer in the oil and it was 150 degrees after 7 minutes. The engine was letting off a lot of external heat even with a high speed fan so it would not have needed much longer to get the oil very hot. So at 7 minutes I could barely hold my hand to the bottom of the crankcase for a few seconds. The rest of the engine was too hot to touch. 5 more minutes at 2200+ RPMs @ 90 degrees outdoor temps and the oil would have been hot.

[El Pescador]

I don't know where you live, but surely someone you come to trust would run it for 30 minutes a month for you?

[Kentktk]

Put the front wheel up against a wall while in gear just in case. I wouldn`t put in gear for more than 30 seconds each time you decide to run the motor and it`s not really necessary or helpful anyway. If you do, ride the rear brake lightly to simulate some load.

[redrider90]

Put the front wheel up against a wall while in gear just in case. I wouldn`t put in gear for more than 30 seconds each time you decide to run the motor and it`s not really necessary or helpful anyway. If you do, ride the rear brake lightly to simulate some load.

I didn't run it in gear. Seems the consensus is I shouldn't do it so I will not. But it does not need to be blocked up agains the wall it I did run it through the gears.  How in the world is it going to come off the center stand? It sits firming on a cement slab. I has been sitting on the slab for years and hasn't come off. Even if I was to run it through the gears while sitting on it, the bike isn't going anywhere. It just doesn't make any sense. Jeeze when I take that bike off the center stand I have to rock it forward it is so stable. Thanks for the concern but the bike is not going to suddenly up an take off on me. 
The bike is not legal. The license plate is out of date and without an inspection I cannot get a new up to date tag. And the insurance is only for me to drive it. So even if it had an up to date tag anybody who drove it would not have insurance. NC is a no fault state and  insurance it required by law.  In this county they set up traffic stops all the time checking. It is not worth the the risk to get a ticket.

[rodekyll]

[snippity]
 How in the world is it going to come off the center stand?
[snip]

If you were to rev it in gear with the rear wheel up you could get a 'bounce' that momentarily touches the rear wheel to the ground.  I had that happen once on my Convert (probably a poorly balanced rear wheel) that rocked the bike pretty good, although it didn't launch it.  Cured me of the practice without bungee cording the front brake lever, and completely cured me of unnecessary throttle play on the centerstand.

[redrider90]

If you were to rev it in gear with the rear wheel up you could get a 'bounce' that momentarily touches the rear wheel to the ground.  I had that happen once on my Convert (probably a poorly balanced rear wheel) that rocked the bike pretty good, although it didn't launch it.  Cured me of the practice without bungee cording the front brake lever, and completely cured me of unnecessary throttle play on the centerstand.

Sounds like you were not sitting on the bike. I always sit on the bike when I ran it though the gears and never did in at RPMS greater that 1K. So I guess you found a way to do it but sitting on the bike and it will not happen.

[rodekyll]

no, it couldn't happen to you.  That sort of stuff only happens to me.

[Farmer Dan]

It takes a minimum of 10 miles on the open road to get the engine up to warm operating temps.  Anything less than that and you are just creating more acids and condensation to your engine internals.  Best to just leave it alone.  Fill the tank with gas so it won't fill with surface rust.  Drain the carbs and remove the battery.  I never found a use for stabilizers in the gas, it's just snake oil.  The gas in my antique tractor is three years old and it still starts and runs just fine.  I might add that my Eldo sat for 35 years with no body but pigeons for company and it is just fine.

[Perazzimx14]

It takes a minimum of 10 miles on the open road to get the engine up to warm operating temps.  Anything less than that and you are just creating more acids and condensation to your engine internals.  Best to just leave it alone.  Fill the tank with gas so it won't fill with surface rust.  Drain the carbs and remove the battery.  I never found a use for stabilizers in the gas, it's just snake oil.  The gas in my antique tractor is three years old and it still starts and runs just fine.  I might add that my Eldo sat for 35 years with no body but pigeons for company and it is just fine.

Dan, You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink.

[redrider90]

If you are speaking about me I do not have any gas in the tank because i need to remove the petcock and fix it as it needs either a new petcock or gasket to stop the leak.  I much rather keep the tank full of gas than empty. It will soon be fixed an fixed and filled with gas.
As for having to run the engine on the road to reach full operating temp that is flat out wrong.  In fact even with a fan on the engine it is not getting as much air on it as would out on the road. Air cooled means it needs air to cool the engine. I put fan on mine as the headers literally get red  in just a couple of minutes but also to prevent engine from overheating.
Please some tell me about the purpose of fins on an air cooled engine. The fins increase the surface area so the airflow when driving decreases the temp of the motor. So you start an air cooled motorcycle engine and let is sit still and run it, it will over heat in time if you do not have air flow.  It may not reach operating temp as fast as if you were driving down the road but unless you get enough air flow over the engine it will overheat. Anybody out there want to start their  Guzzi and let it set and and idle for a couple of hours? And why does no one let their air cooled engine just set and run? Because it will overheat. That is why they are called air cooled engines because they need air to be cooled. Deprive them of air flow  and the laws of thermodynamics say this sucker is going to get very very hot.

[atavar]

There is a huge difference between the heat distribution of an engine running on a stand with no load and an engine running on the road with a load and higher oil flow.  The top end of your engine in the stand is going to get way hotter than an engine running on the road, but the crankcase temps are not going to get up to the operating range nearly as quickly.

[Triple Jim]

I don't understand why you say the oil flow is higher under load.  The pump is a positive displacement type, so flow depends on RPM until the pressure valve's pop-off pressure is reached.  Since the oil circulates, the engine temperature should be fairly uniform throughout the engine, whether under load or not.  If the oil temperature gets over about 212F, it will lose any accumulated moisture, no matter if it got to that temperature by idling or by running under load.

[atavar]

Oil flow is higher on the road because you have higher sustained rpm's.  Oil flow is a linear function of rpm.