toasted battery

[azguzzirep]

Saturday and Sunday, my EV was a little slow to crank over, and on Sunday, on a ride, the bike died as I came to a stop. There was nothing when I pushed the starter button.

A little while later, 10 minutes I guess, it fired up and I continued on. It also got me home ok.

I checked the battery at home,  and the water level was down on all 6 cells, just beneath the lead plates. I filled the cells with distilled water, and then started the bike.

I tried to start the bike this morning, and only got the click, click, click sound. Not enough juice.

So, I will put it on a charger and see what happens tomorrow, but first...

1) do I need to disconnect the cables from the positive side of the battery?
2) to remove the battery do I disconnect the positive cables first, then negative?
3) when re-installing the battery (or a new one) is it negative first, then positive?

I know it has been discussed before, but I cannot find the discussion link.. I sure don't want to zap that old computer!!!

I know I need to check the voltage from the altinator to make sure it isn't putting out tooo much voltage, but I have to get it running first to do that!

Thanks,

Tom

[redrider]

Always disconnect the negative lead first and reconnect last. That way, if you accidentally touch the frame with your wrench on the positive terminal, no sparks or blooey! Just the opposite if you have positive ground. How old is the battery?

[Aaron D.]

If it starts after charging and riding, maybe ok.

If it starts after a day or so between rides you may have dodged a bullet.

If it fails to start or even crank slowly, do not screw around. Do not take the silly thing to the auto parts store for "testing". Just buy a new maintenance free battery and ride.

[Kiwi_Roy]

1) do I need to disconnect the cables from the positive side of the battery?
2) to remove the battery do I disconnect the positive cables first, then negative?
3) when re-installing the battery (or a new one) is it negative first, then positive?

1) There is no need to disconnect the battery while charging
2,3) As Redrider says disconnect Negative first re-connect Negative last. You need to flash a wrench to chassis just once and you will never forget.

Scrape the terminals to expose the clean lead then smear on a little petroleum jelly (aka Vaseline) this protects the metal from Oxygen which forms Lead Oxide that can disconnect the battery.
Find the main ground connection to the chassis and clean that also. Actually if its on the chassis a better place is connected to the engine/gearbox again with some Vaseline or grease.

The way it died then re-started 10 minutes later makes me wonder if you don't have a bad connection or perhaps a dirty ignition switch, some EVs feed the headlight relay through the switch.
The headlight relay powers up the Voltage regulator if it gets a low Voltage due to a weak connection it will overcharge.

[acogoff]

    The real truth is you are now in a exercise of futility. A new battery will give you peace of mind too.

[Triple Jim]

Unfortunately, every time I've had a battery that had the plates exposed, it failed shortly after, even though I tried to save it.  I think this is pretty much what acogoff just said.

It's possible that one cell shorted, making it effectively a nominally 10V battery, which then got hot from being overcharged by a system designed for a 12V battery, and it lost electrolyte in all the cells.  This means you may or may not have a problem with your charging system, which you already knew.

[Lannis]

I have 14 vehicles/pieces of equipment with batteries here on the place.

I recognize, and constantly preach, that batteries are fragile, failure-prone things, and our experience on the list has shown us that unexpectedly bad batteries are the cause of MOST of our Guzzi electrical problems.   I'm sure the same is true about non-Guzzis too.

And although one method of solving the "bad battery" problem is simply to buy a new one, batteries are pretty expensive items.

It always surprises me that people are SO resistant to simply buying a Battery Load Tester.   It's a once in a lifetime purchase, it's not expensive, and it forever eliminates the doubt of "Is it the battery or something else?"    You don't have to take your battery to Auto Zone - you can not only test your battery, but test your charging system under load conditions.

If a battery passes the Load Test, then it's not your electrical problem, period.    If I didn't have one, I'd have thrown away enough good batteries to pay for the load tester several times over ....

Lannis

[JoeW]

You've obviously got a flooded lead acid battery. IMO, if it's over four years old, replace it.

[Charles in Lake Charles]

It always surprises me that people are SO resistant to simply buying a Battery Load Tester.   It's a once in a lifetime purchase,

.

Don't buy a Harbor Freight tester, the switch WILL go bad.

[Lannis]

.

Don't buy a Harbor Freight tester, the switch WILL go bad.

No fears there; I don't buy Harbor Freight ANYthings in the last 10 years.    Wait,  I did buy a $2.50 brush for sweeping the top of the workbench.   That's it though.

My battery tester is from NAPA.   High quality tool, as far as I can tell.   Been working consistently for years.

Lannis

[Triple Jim]

Lannis, my load test has always been:

1. disconnect power to ignition system
2. crank engine for several seconds, wait, repeat a few times.

If the starter gets slower each successive time and the total cranking isn't at least 30 seconds, the battery fails the load test.  I have no doubt that a load tester would be a nice piece of equipment to have, but when you have as much stuff as I've collected over the years, to the point that the walls are closing in, it's good to limit new purchases when possible.   

[azguzzirep]

Lannis, my load test has always been:

1. disconnect power to ignition system
2. crank engine for several seconds, wait, repeat a few times.

If the starter gets slower each successive time and the total cranking isn't at least 30 seconds, the battery fails the load test.  I have no doubt that a load tester would be a nice piece of equipment to have, but when you have as much stuff as I've collected over the years, to the point that the walls are closing in, it's good to limit new purchases when possible.   

The starter is a great load tester!!

How can I disable the ignition system? Just remove a fuse?

 On my old G5, I could crank it with the kill switch off. It turned over but wouldn't start.

[Kiwi_Roy]

Most of the places near me with a load tester aren't equipped to handle small batteries like our motorcycles use.
I like the idea of having a load tester but failing that I'm with Tripple Jim only measure the Voltage while cranking
if it stays above 10 that's good enough.
Bearing in mind I don't have a modern bike that will shut you down if it sees low Voltage.

Lannis, I assume your tester has different positions depending on the Amp Hour rating, how do you determine if a battery gets a pass, by Voltage, do you charge them up first?

[Lannis]

Lannis, my load test has always been:

1. disconnect power to ignition system
2. crank engine for several seconds, wait, repeat a few times.

If the starter gets slower each successive time and the total cranking isn't at least 30 seconds, the battery fails the load test.  I have no doubt that a load tester would be a nice piece of equipment to have, but when you have as much stuff as I've collected over the years, to the point that the walls are closing in, it's good to limit new purchases when possible.   

That works OK until you find out that your STARTER or the starter wiring circuit is the problem; resistance going up in the windings as it heats up, ground connection resistance changing .... so you say "Aha, my battery is bad!" and buy a new one, and are mystified when it does the same thing ...

I need to "declutter" my stuff too, and get rid of stuff I seldom use - but the load tester is about the size of two bricks, hangs up on the wall above the battery-charging shelf, and is not in anyone's way.   It would be one of the last tools I'd get rid of ....

Lannis

[Lannis]

Lannis, I assume your tester has different positions depending on the Amp Hour rating

It has different quadrants on the meter to indicate "Good" amp draw for different Amp Hour ratings.   It always uses the same load.    Works very well for even small 6 volt batteries on the old Brits.

Lannis

[azguzzirep]

You've obviously got a flooded lead acid battery. IMO, if it's over four years old, replace it.

No idea how old it is as there was no sales date sticker on the top of it.

I've had the bike about two years now, but just found out how to take off the Corbin seat a month or so ago.

I live in an apartment now, and have no place to do wrenching. It really, really sucks!  The bike is parked in a basement garage, but the automatic lights only stay on for 5 minutes or so, and there are no electric outlets to plug a light into. I have to run an extention cord from inside, and that sucks, too.

Hey, thanks everybody for your help!!

Tom

[atavar]

To stand a chance of resurrecting a questionable battery with low fluid levels, instead of using distilled water try dissolving a teaspoon of epsom salt in a quart of distilled water and refilling with that.  Then charge as if it were a new battery.  This has resurrected more than a couple of "bad" batteries for me and I have not exploded one yet.
http://www.ehow.com/how_10076192_desulfate-battery-epsom-salts.html
If your battery is bad you don't have a lot to lose.  Of course wear protective gear like gloves and long sleeves and especially good eye protection whenever you are working with battery fluids.

[Lannis]

No idea how old it is as there was no sales date sticker on the top of it.

I've had the bike about two years now, but just found out how to take off the Corbin seat a month or so ago.

I live in an apartment now, and have no place to do wrenching. It really, really sucks!  The bike is parked in a basement garage, but the automatic lights only stay on for 5 minutes or so, and there are no electric outlets to plug a light into. I have to run an extention cord from inside, and that sucks, too.

Hey, thanks everybody for your help!!

Tom

I was in that same situation for a year in Denver CO in 2013.   

My solution was a Honda Pacific Coast with new tires and a new battery.

Turn the key and go, forget everything under the plastic .... !

Lannis