Why are there so few Guzzi Dealers?

[canuguzzi]

There is plenty of money in it. That isn't the problem.

The problem is not going after the money.

[ITSec]

There is plenty of money in it. That isn't the problem.

The problem is not going after the money.

Let's say the gross dealer margin on a new Piaggio product averages $1500 - whether its a Cali 1400 Touring or a V7Stone. And we won't even count flooring against that. Or sales commissions. That should help ensure my number is somewhat valid, but I'm betting (from experience) it's close. Any underestimate would be eaten by flooring (extended, on most Piaggio products), sales commissions (unless the owner is the manager is the sales staff), and so on.

If Moto Guzzi were to make 15,000 machines a year (they never have) and 10% of them came to the US, that means there's a total gross for dealers of $2.25 million. GROSS.

Divide that among, say, 50 dealers - an average of $45,000 per shop. That's less than $4,000 a month, less than a lot of middle class families live on (barely). From that, take rent/mortgage, power and other utilities, taxes, insurance, advertising, fuel and all the other myriad forms of overhead, and it's a hard thing to see enough pie.

Even if the margin were $2500 per machine (and it ain't), the numbers are still thin - $75,000 a dealer, $6250 a month. Run that back to the number of machines actually made, say an average of 10,000 a year, and even at the generous margin the numbers are meager.

[O]

Let's say the gross dealer margin on a new Piaggio product averages $1500 - whether its a Cali 1400 Touring or a V7Stone. And we won't even count flooring against that. Or sales commissions. That should help ensure my number is somewhat valid, but I'm betting (from experience) it's close. Any underestimate would be eaten by flooring (extended, on most Piaggio products), sales commissions (unless the owner is the manager is the sales staff), and so on.

If Moto Guzzi were to make 15,000 machines a year (they never have) and 10% of them came to the US, that means there's a total gross for dealers of $2.25 million. GROSS.

Divide that among, say, 50 dealers - an average of $45,000 per shop. That's less than $4,000 a month, less than a lot of middle class families live on (barely). From that, take rent/mortgage, power and other utilities, taxes, insurance, advertising, fuel and all the other myriad forms of overhead, and it's a hard thing to see enough pie.

Even if the margin were $2500 per machine (and it ain't), the numbers are still thin - $75,000 a dealer, $6250 a month. Run that back to the number of machines actually made, say an average of 10,000 a year, and even at the generous margin the numbers are meager.

Which is why I love Ducati.  Not that I want to own any of their bikes (well perhaps the GT 1000).  There's just no way that Seacoast could provide the services that they do with just the Piaggio line, nevermind just with Guzzis. 

[canuguzzi]

Let's say the gross dealer margin on a new Piaggio product averages $1500 - whether its a Cali 1400 Touring or a V7Stone. And we won't even count flooring against that. Or sales commissions. That should help ensure my number is somewhat valid, but I'm betting (from experience) it's close. Any underestimate would be eaten by flooring (extended, on most Piaggio products), sales commissions (unless the owner is the manager is the sales staff), and so on.

If Moto Guzzi were to make 15,000 machines a year (they never have) and 10% of them came to the US, that means there's a total gross for dealers of $2.25 million. GROSS.

Divide that among, say, 50 dealers - an average of $45,000 per shop. That's less than $4,000 a month, less than a lot of middle class families live on (barely). From that, take rent/mortgage, power and other utilities, taxes, insurance, advertising, fuel and all the other myriad forms of overhead, and it's a hard thing to see enough pie.

Even if the margin were $2500 per machine (and it ain't), the numbers are still thin - $75,000 a dealer, $6250 a month. Run that back to the number of machines actually made, say an average of 10,000 a year, and even at the generous margin the numbers are meager.

Dealers of hardware products, be they motorcycles, RVs, computers or marbles do not live on the dealer markup of the sales for that hardware.  A sale of hardware is the entry into the sales of service and parts.

If you remove service or sales of parts, the dealer must either sell high volumes or exist as a labor of love or sell something else.

If for example, out of every 100 MG bikes sold, the dealer sees just a few back for service just why would that dealer want to bother? The same goes for parts. If the only time those MG owners walk in the store is because they need a warranty part installed, why bother.

There is no rocket science, watch what the best do and do what they do. That doesn't mean being cookie cutter, it means listening to customers, fixing stupid things that have existed for years that don't require redesigns of major components and making what more people want.

Either that or raise prices and sell a true world class series of bikes. People will buy them and considering the number of bikes MG sells, it could find enough to buy really high quality world class bikes. There are as many people willing to pay that as there are willing to buy current MG models.

That does mean world class though, not what they are selling now. The business model to do that successfully is there. But don't think something like startus interruptus and flat tappet eatitus   can be passed off as an privilege to have.

[CLZ]

I tried to give my (at the time) local dealer $3000+ worth of parts business to get an older Guzzi back on the road.  I went in with a list of parts and was told: "Piaggio has stopped supporting all the older Guzzi part numbers, we can maybe get 5% of what's on your list.  Your best bet is Harper's or MG Cycle"  I had them go ahead and see what they could order for me and they were right, they couldn't hardly get anything.  So, my $$$'s were forced to the online marketplace by a decision Piaggio made and both Harper's and MGC got some of that business. 

I realize supporting a 40 yr old motorcycle isn't going to be a huge money maker for the company but 90% of the parts I needed were available from either Harper's or MGC and they are both able to continue to source the older parts.  Why can't the manufacturer continue to support their product?  The infrastructure was/is already in place.  All they needed to do was maintain the status quo.  I'm sure it looked like a good decision on paper...

Sometimes it's not just the customer's lack of support of a dealership that makes the business fail.  If the manufacturer makes poor decisions then, as others have noted in this thread, the customer loses confidence that the dealer will be able to support them either at all or at least in a timely manner and the dealer will become "plan B" over a local bearing house or hardware store for the simple things (nuts/bolts/o-rings/bearings/etc...).  Once they realize that the pricing of an equivalent item is 25% of what the dealer is charging then it becomes an easier decision to make to skip the dealer. 

Let's not forget, the decisions the manufacturer makes affects the retailers of their products as well.  It's not always the customers fault...

Oh, and the dealer I originally went to...they are no longer in business.

[canuguzzi]

That is why there isn't a Harper's in every big city and they sell online. 40 year old bikes are just that and considered classics or special interest. The sport has to evolve and supporting old bikes is something best left to the few who can service the few who need parts for them.

That $3000 order is nothing, you were going to out them in yourself. The money is in service, it keeps the tech on the payroll.

The best MG could do is get their inventory for current model bikes available with a quick ship model and dump the old stuff, sell it off to some wholesaler and deal with people buying new bikes.

No manufacturer wants to have the noose of old product dangling around their necks. Its nice for the museum and history but they need to move on.

[rocker59]

I realize supporting a 40 yr old motorcycle isn't going to be a huge money maker for the company but 90% of the parts I needed were available from either Harper's or MGC and they are both able to continue to source the older parts.  Why can't the manufacturer continue to support their product?   

You would've gotten he same reaction from a Harley or Honda dealer, had you walked in with a parts list for a 40 year old motorcycle.

OEMs are in the business of selling new motorcycles and supporting them for about ten years.

Had you walked into a dealer who had been in the business for 40-years, he may have the parts in stock.  But that's only because the parts have been languishing on his shelf for decades...

[decotriumph]

The answer to the original question is not so simple. There are few Guzzi dealers because there are few Guzzi buyers because there is little general awareness among the motorcycling public about Guzzis because there are few Guzzis because there are few Guzzi dealers because there are few Guzzi buyers because...

I was a Moto Guzzi dealer in a large Midwest city for a couple of years (1998-2000) before I ran out of money and had to close down. I was a franchised dealer for Moto Guzzi, Triumph, Ducati, and Laverda. I constantly had people come into my shop riding Harleys or Japanese sportbikes, and look around and then leave, telling me they'd never heard of any of those brands. Other dealers for my brands within 150 miles or so also sold Japanese brands, including ATVs, so they carried my brands as a hobby, and would sell them at cost because they were supported by their Japanese bike and ATV sales. One dealer (pissed at Triumph and Guzzi for giving me a franchise) even told me to my face that he would do so until he put me out of business, then he dropped Triumph and Guzzi (or they dropped him; not sure which). He also refused to trade units with me if a customer wanted a different color, etc. than what I had, though all the other nearby dealers and we traded often.

Most dealers who sell Guzzis do so because they are enthusiasts like us, not because they are going to make a lot of money, because they won't. That goes for Aprilia, etc. too. And I was one of the top Guzzi dealers in the US at the time, though I sold fewer than a dozen units a year. Moto Guzzi USA (pre-Piaggio) liked us so well that they sometimes gave us free flooring on new units.

Regarding parts, when a dealer takes on any brand franchise, the company requires them to take on a certain "spare parts package," and that is determined by the company. A dealer can certainly add to that if he wants, but based on the experience of the company, that package will fit most of his needs and then he replenishes as stock is depleted. No dealer has the room or the foresight to carry every part a potential customer will need, no matter how many tea leaves he reads. My Parts Unlimited rep talked me into taking a box of spark plugs for Chinese scooters, claiming I'd sell them within six months to local kids and DUI scooter riders, and promising to take them back if I didn't. Six months later, he bought the whole box back.

We tried to cater to the owners of vintage bikes in the brands we carried, but other than spark plugs and points, we didn't carry a lot of other pieces. Again, what would we carry and for which models? We established a good rapport with specialists like Harper's, though, and when a vintage Guzzi came in, we'd order the parts from Harper's ourselves rather than tell the customer to do it. We wanted to be their local go-to Guzzi source.

I feel fortunate that I have a Guzzi dealer within 40 miles of me. He also sells Aprilia, Vespa, and Piaggio brands, but I suspect not many. I bought my new 2014 Stelvio just last month. He also has other 2014s of those brands left. His bread and butter lies in the fact that he's also a dealer for all four Japanese brands, plus Indian, Kymco, Victory, Polaris, and KTM. He's been paying floorplan on those 2014 bikes for over a year.

A previous poster alluded to the appeal of the "lifetstyle" aspect of Harley. I was just the opposite. My main bike from 2000 to 2014 was an Excelsior-Henderson, which Suzuki and Harley riders have also never heard of. I also briefly owned two Buells, a pair of BMWs, and two Triumphs during that time. I sold my last Excelsior-Henderson in late 2014 and bought a Harley Road King. I liked it but I didn't love it, so I traded it in on my Stelvio, which I do love. I do not fit the perceived "Harley lifestyle," whatever that is. I fit the Guzzi/Triumph/BMW/Aprilia/Ducati style better. But not many loyal Harley riders (or even Gold Wing riders) are going to switch to Guzzis. Most of the Harley faithful don't read Cycle World, Motorcyclist, or Rider, so they never see the Moto Guzzi road tests or new model intros. If Moto Guzzi ran ads in those magazines, they wouldn't see that either. They only read Harley-oriented magazines, if any at all.

There will never be very many Moto Guzzi dealers. There's not enough money in it and there's not enough brand awareness. Be happy we have the ones we have and give them as much business as you can if you want to keep them.

[rocker59]

 

[charlie b]

It really is simple.  Not many people want a Guzzi.  Yes, lack of dealers is a big part of it, but, a bigger part is not having the bike they want.

Cruiser types mainly want an HD or look alike.  The newer Calis will fit those who want a cruiser but want to be different.  Not many of those folks out there, and most of those will go to an Indian instead.

Sport bike types just don't see any performance in the Guzzi lineup.  Aprilla maybe.

Sport touring types look at the Norge and see an ancient technology bike, not even cruise control.  And costs as much or more than competition that outperform it.

ADV types look at the Stelvio and compare it favorably to the others.  But, why pay for a Stelvio when a SuperTen is less and just as 'different'?

The V7 has come as the 'retro' bikes have made a comeback and is reasonably priced.  It seems to be selling better than the others.  Drawback is still that it is lower in power than similar sized bikes, many of which cost less.

Me?  Would I buy a new Goose?  Probably not.  Why?  My current bike is running fine and as long as it keeps running I don't need another one.  If it 'blows up' then would I consider another Guzzi?  Yes.   New?  Maybe, depending on if they upgrade the Norge or get a better midrange bike.  Nothing in the current offerings would make me want to buy one.

[Tobit]

I haven't read all four pages of this thread but here's my .02.  As far as parts go, barring tires, my Guzzi has needed so few over the course of it's 28 year life that purchasing at a dealer rather than on-line wouldn't keep anyone in business.  It's service where I have to decide if paying someone to do a job I can do, and enjoy doing myself, is worth the cost.  Especially when most of my experiences with service departments (auto and motorcycles) are less than satisfactory and I end up fixing it myself afterwards.  Much less frustrating than going back to the same dealer, but I'll let them know that they failed at the task.

Now if there were a Guzzi dealership nearby, being the impulsive guy I am, I would go spend money there on gear, plugs, gizmos, etc, and maybe (probably) be swayed into trading the old horse in on a new one.  Fact is, in a city of 1 million people, my most recent experience seeing a "new" Guzzi was probably two years ago when a green Griso passed me in town.

As an aside, on the topic of bicycles, my daughter's Felt needed a new crank arm.  Since I have not invested in all the neat tools modern bikes need for a new threaded lower bracket, I took it to the shop I purchased it from.  Super nice people and they put it on the stand and had it stripped in 5 minutes.  The lower bracket/ring gear/crank arm cost me $60 and labor was $50.  I didn't mind.  I don't have the tools or stand.  My Specialized Hard Rock needs a new cassette and chain, so I'll take it where I bought it and probably trade up my son's GT now that he's outgrown it.

Then there's the Ford dealership.  100% markup on parts keeps me far away from them.  I flushed the trans and did a filter R/R two weeks ago and bought the pan gasket from them.  $50.  Same Motorcraft gasket on Ebay?  $23 shipped.  Filter?  $48 vs. $20. 

Back to Guzzi, if there were a dealer nearby I'd be a lot more likely to be on a newer model. 



TT

[Groover]

My 1-cent on this topic (I need the other 1-cent for another topic). Moto Guzzi Dealers should unite and demand Moto Guzzi to push some advertisement in this US. A TV commercial during some prime time TV should help. Most middle-age and younger people don't even know the brand, some older gearhead gents know the brand (at least around here) because in the 70's and 80's some Guzzi dealerships also sold All-State, Vespa, Lambretta, John Deer, and some also Harleys, so anyone going in for a tractor or Harley service checkup would at least be exposed to the brand.

What does Moto Guzzi do for US dealers today? Nothing from what I can tell... so someone (as a group of dealers I think) needs to tell the Marketing Team at Moto Guzzi how it is - they may appreciate the feedback and kick in the butt.

Good luck to all.

[HDGoose]

Moto Guzzi - Going out of business since 1921!

[pebra]

I believe I've read all the posts in this thread, but can't recall anyone stating the obvious, simple answer to Mr Harper's question:
There are few Guzzi dealers because of lack of commitment on Guzzi's side. They reap what they sow.

[Curtis Harper]

Originally, I started this thread because I hear this type of "I'll try my dealer when there is no other option" sentiment all too often. Those of us that wake up every morning to do our best to help the motorcycle populous hate to hear that the knowledge we have attained over the years is useless to our customer unless it is the last resort. The statement was not directed at me so I was not personally offended. But it"s that hardware store mentality to maintain a fantastic piece of machinery that drives me nuts.

However, screaming about something I can"t change does little for my sanity, so I threw that post out there for a little venting yes, but also to listen to what people would actually have to say.  Yes I was pointing a finger at the consumer for not supporting local dealers, but I am also asking why that is. And some fantastic answers / responses.

Yes, we are a local dealer and also have a online store. But I actually do quite often refer people back to their dealer if at all possible. It is also understood that there are few dealers with real Guzzi knowledge, making it hard to get service from them. I have suggested many times in the past that Piaggio actually have some sort of parts training for a dealer. It"s harder that anything trying to look up accessories, or trace superceded parts.

Cheese brought up the oil filter issue. The dealer should have taken care of it, and Guzzi should have made it good with him. I am imagining that he would not do that due to the difficulty that most face with returning anything to Piaggio. Not your problem and sorry that guy dumped on you.

Wayne brought up the misunderstood statement about small parts being a drain on business. I don't see it that way. If you need a $2 part to get your $10k bike moving than dag nabbit, you need the part. It costs me more to tell you to go get it elsewhere. Unless I know of an easy fix, like a turn signal bulb at the auto parts store and it's Friday and you need to ride this weekend, etc...

Many of you have reported negative dealer experiences. I know that happens, and do not blame anyone for not going back to where they got that kind of service. Truthfully, I would be lying if I said every transaction here went without problems. But, using a Napa filter on a 600 mile service? I would have gone nuclear.

Now, I also know that o-rings are generally o-rings, bolts are bolts, and there are many interchangeable parts. There have been occasions when people have priced a simple piece of hardware that was some ludicrous price and we acknowledged that common sense dictated a different source. Such as the inner plug on the Norge which is an NGK PMR8B is available from a different industry source for half the price. So we use those so we can save the customer money. But a dealer just doesn't have time to pre-source every part.

Many of you took the topic to a whole different direction than originally intended with input from ITSec and a couple of others. And that was quite interesting reading other thoughts on that side.

A lot realize that Piaggio can be very difficult to deal with, and yes they can be at times. As of now I have a very good relationship with the folks there in parts and accessories and service. As they acknowledge that Harpers is their largest Guzzi parts account. They actually do listen if I bring up real problems.

But I will however pass along this story I was told over last weekend. A gentleman that was at one of the vintage races that I put on last Sunday, has been a Powersports Product Rep for nearly 40 years. He was hired on at Piaggio to handle a certain area which was not my area. I mentioned that my Rep had not been in my shop for nearly the previous seven years before he left to go elsewhere. I was told that my rep said "Oh hell, don't ever go to the dealers, they hate us. Just ride your demo, enjoy life, promote the product to the public." Neither of those two gentlemen are in the employ of Piaggio any longer.

SO I guess over the last week I got real good answers from many surprise sources. I'll keep digesting all of it and see how we can make our service better for those that aren't lucky enough to have a good local dealer.

[Arizona Wayne]

I haven't read all the complaints on this but have known for a long time part of the problem of being a Guzzi dealer is you have to sell genuine MG parts at the price MG tells you to, which is high compared to other sources for the same item.  So you dealers are between a rock and a hard place.  This is what encourages buyers to find other sources to spend their $ at for X parts.   If MG lowered part prices you dealers would get more business.

[papatom]

There are Moto Guzzi dealerships out there? I have wanted a Goose for many years but couldn't see myself owning one until I reached a level of competence. Competence in my own abilities as a mechanic. Competence in my internet abilities to order my own parts off the internet. And my own belief in myself that I am competent enough to handle or deal with whatever happens on the road. I bought a 13 year old bike because it was supposed to be dependable once sorted. A Moto Guzzi dealership never entered the equasion. I have no idea where the nearest dealership to me is. I don't really care if the brand survives or not. I'm here, the bikes here, and I'm happy. There are enough parts out there to keep me going and I can find them.  What more do you need?