A new Moto Guzzi 850 ADV named HYDER

[canuguzzi]

Looking like a cross between the Stelvio and Norge sans 100 pounds, the HYDER sports an 8Valve engine with the required rollers but just as important with a lower seat height to accommodate even the inseam challenged and adjustable handlebars it seems to fit more riders than any other MG product except the credit card slider at the parts counter.

Pumping out a phenomenal 72 hp across the typical linear type power band, with 100 pounds less to haul except for those who see every 5 pounds of unsprung weight lost as an excuse to gain 20  pounds of their own, the HYDER hits the gate much more like a reved up Caponord even though its engine is grunting from what seems like a slow idle. As engine speed builds there is the slightest hint of vibes until the carved in stone 8000 redline is reached.

Gaited suspension up front buck the upside down tubes trend but it does lend a serious look to a serious ADV, one that can do more than run down compacted graveled clay roads. Nearly 7 inches of travel up front and about 5 in the rear keep all but the deepest ruts from jarring the bars.

A mode selectable map for the ECU, traction control and an new ABS selectable for on, off, front or rear wheels only give you the tuneable ride for just about all riding conditions. The selectable ABS is a new highlight allowing the rider to set ABS for either end but especially for the front only selection, slide out turns are easy to initiate.

Borrowed from the Norge, passive cylinder head air flow is integrated into the half frame mounted fairing with a twist. Lead me headlight that pivot slightly to either side brings one of the best features of bar mounted fairing to the frame mounted version on the HYDER, the light where you steer function so important to might rides at speeds above 35 mph.

Replacing the dim, glare filled LCD of previous models, the new LED lit LCD in color selectable blue, red, green or yellow boasts an any light readable display twice the width of previous models. The Analog speedo is completely solid state with a virtual face and sweeping needle. The Tachometer is represented by a linear ladder with number markers along side. A virtual tach feedback system through the throttle grip alerts the rider to redline operation without requiring even a glance at the instruments.

The adjustable windscreen features user set wingletsnon either side to make longer distance highway riding less fatuiging and allowing for rain deflection away from the riders shoulders.

The two piece saddle allows the passenger section to be removed and replaced ala the old Honda Silver Wing for extra storage. Ubiquitous side bags round out storage and follow the style of the fuel tank which is actually cover over a plastic fuel cell. A capacity of 7 gallons gives a decent cruising range.

Cam positioning footpegs give 3/4 of an inch adjustment off center so coupled with the seat height fore and aft adjustment the new HYDER will accommodate more riders than any other ADV motorcycle currently in production.

Naturally this little wishful thinking post is not for the lemon juice in their cream tea crowd but for some of us this might be the hot ticket if MG even came close to getting one out the door.

The name? The road where the pavement ends on the Florida to Alaska ride. About time a name came from some place other than just Europe, its not a law.

Your ideas for a tweener middle to big bor displacement machine? The revival of some past model or new paint or plastics on some current model won't bring buyers in and the last thing many new buyers want is yet another V7 something. Its time for a boost in go without the weight of the Stelvio.

[rocker59]

This thread is worthless without a link.

and/or pix.

This one sentence assures my belief that this is some Euro Guzzista's Fantasy:

"Naturally this little wishful thinking post is not for the lemon juice in their cream tea crowd but for some of us this might be the hot ticket if MG even came close to getting one out the door."

[canuguzzi]

This thread is worthless without a link.

and/or pix.

This one sentence assures my belief that this is some Euro Guzzista's Fantasy:

"Naturally this little wishful thinking post is not for the lemon juice in their cream tea crowd but for some of us this might be the hot ticket if MG even came close to getting one out the door."

A pic or link to an idea, wow. I guess no one is allowed to post what they'd line to see unless it is a rehash of some old design  right. Anyone could add to the idea, talk about it or whatever.

You've got the power at your mouse tip, go ahead and censor it, what you're doing anyway.

[Kev m]

This thread is worthless without a link.

and/or pix.

This one sentence assures my belief that this is some Euro Guzzista's Fantasy:

"Naturally this little wishful thinking post is not for the lemon juice in their cream tea crowd but for some of us this might be the hot ticket if MG even came close to getting one out the door."

Rocker,

I think you were taken in by the well written prose of NR.

If I'm reading it correctly, this SPECIFICALLY IS HIS fantasy and he's asking for our thoughts on it or our own "fantasies" on the subject.

[rocker59]

A pic or link to an idea, wow. I guess no one is allowed to post what they'd line to see unless it is a rehash of some old design  right. Anyone could add to the idea, talk about it or whatever.

You've got the power at your mouse tip, go ahead and censor it, what you're doing anyway.

You wrote that?  Complete with typos and phrasing that looks like it came out of a translator?

If you were wanting to start a conversation about a new Guzzi ADVbike, why didn't you just say so ?

There are a bunch of threads out there discussing this, since the revitalization of the small block line happened in 2009.

[rocker59]

Rocker,

I think you were taken in by the well written prose of NR.

If I'm reading it correctly, this SPECIFICALLY IS HIS fantasy and he's asking for our thoughts on it or our own "fantasies" on the subject.

Yep.  Taken in.  Looked like a cut and paste from someplace like Squadra Guzzista.

[canuguzzi]

You wrote that?  Complete with typos and phrasing that looks like it came out of a translator?

If you were wanting to start a conversation about a new Guzzi ADVbike, why didn't you just say so ?

There are a bunch of threads out there discussing this, since the revitalization of the small block line happened in 2009.

Yes I wrote it, on my smartphone. It was an idea I had, just wanted to share it. I got Cs in English, my apologies and spell check doesn't always work as intended.

Geesh, you jumped on what was only an idea, there is no link, no pic. Maybe someone else could imagine their own idea and add something, change it or whatever. I don't care.

I would really like to see something new. I do not peruse the Euro fantasy sites. I've long said I'd like to see a.lighter smaller Norge but having had some ADV bikes and really liking their style thought bringing that into the mix might be nice to see.

Really Rocker, I wrote it, don't copy ideas of others and just thought some light hearted talk about something new might be OK.

Little did I know how rigid things get when it comes to even suggesting something different. Maybe a new paint color on the same.models is all anyone needs.

Dang.

[canuguzzi]

Yep.  Taken in.  Looked like a cut and paste from someplace like Squadra Guzzista.

KMA. It was original thought, typed out on my smartphone.  We have threads about oil and so on, no one cares. Hownmany times are we going to hear about the V7 engine oil, tires or all that?  Like I said, you have then power here, if it bothers you that much, censor it.

What you coukdbhave done, instead of accusingnme of something for which there is no basis in fact was contribute.

I've posted plentynof tips and mynownnoriginal ideas from mounting tablets to GPS, experiences with cameras, tire pressure monitors and the gizmo dash and bar rizer s along with pics and how to mame then. Do jot accuse me of copy andnpaste and passing off the work of others as my own.

I'd never do that to you.

[rocker59]

you wanted to discuss...

Guzzi has two problems with anything powered by 850cc:

1) a new 850cc big block powered ADVbike would have little or no weight advantage over the existing Stelvio.
2) a new 850cc small block powered ADVbike would be up against some stiff competition in the segment being fielded by both BMW and Triumph. 

Guzzi has had some previous bikes in the segment, the NTX line.  They were OK, but were outclassed by others at the time.

Guzzi would have to differentiate itself through style and marketing to attract buyers to a small block powered ADVbike, because others in the class are so good.

Guzzi could jump into the deep end with a totally new platform that is somewhat competitive with the existing 800cc ADVbikes.  The Guzzi would probably be the most expensive and worst performing in the group, unless they really got aggressive in stepping up their game.

Somehow, I don't think Guzzi is interested in going after the 800cc ADVbike segment in any meaningful way..  It would be expensive and risky, though the bikes would likely be good Guzzis.

Yes, I'd love to have a small block powered Guzzi ADVbike.

[pauldaytona]

well it looks like a new small block 850 is comming, with big wheels.

[rocker59]

Yep.  Noted in the most recent thread wondering about new small blocks:

http://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=79195.0

I'd sure like to know what they mean by "big wheels".  My guess is the bike is getting wider 17-inch wheels/tires, but as always, things get lost in translation.

http://www.laprovinciadilecco.it/stories/Cronaca/la-guzzi-lavora-ad-una-nuova-moto_1142994_11/

[Murray]

So how do you save 100lb's 50kgs out of the 8valve motor based bike? It still uses the exact same amount of parts as the 1200. Guzzi been Guzzi there will also be a large amount of common parts. Unless they completely redesign the motor and frame water cooling chain drive alli frame, then you might have a chance.

[canuguzzi]

I don't know how much if the weight of say, a Stelvio is in the engine. Granted, an 850 might not serve to save weight over the 1200 but unless I'm mistaken (happens) doesn't less stress from the available power allow for lightening of other components?

What about lighter weight wheels, attack the frame components, everythin g and anything else? I admit 100 pounds is a lot to lose but how about as close as they could get from material changes? It sure wouldn't come cheaply but then MG bikes at the higher end aren't cheap anyway.

The plastics alone are heavy on the Norge and probably Stelvio compared to say carbon fiber and the accompanying mounting hardware. Not a complete 100 pounds there but quite a bit if room for improvement. That would cost more but then I'd pay a couple thousand more for better quality on that side of things. Just me but loosing that weight which is high and almost all aheadbof steering center would make a difference without getting into the engine components.

The same with the side bags, they are just plain heavy. Could probably half that and retain a good look and that kind of design might not have to cost that much in development using modern techniques.

Things like handlebars don't add up to much but every bit helps.

What I'm saying is perhaps using many if the common components but change some materials where you can. MG isn't Boeing so large carbon fiber components aren't in the cards but it would be a start. Then look at the frame. The engine is stressed but there is still quite a bit of weight losing that might happen with some changes realizing that a new bike can't just be a bins parts bike.

Making a bigger jump than just rearranging bins parts takes an investment but in order to attract new buyers and the kind of buyers willing to spend a bit more, they have to give a bit more too.

The MGX is supposed to go for higher end dollars. KTMs aren't cheap so maybe a new ADV from MG doesn't have to target to lower end but the upper middle ground buyer instead.

I'd line up for a middle-middle heavy bike in the 850 range, different enough from the Norge and smaller than the Stelvio with more than one or two upgrades in suspension, instrumentation and a real goodndiet.

Maybe this can't happen for a number of reasons but maybe there could be a start down that road over a multi-year run?

[rodekyll]

Dunno about the rest of it, but this part:  ".  . . The name? The road where the pavement ends on the Florida to Alaska ride. About time a name came from some place other than just Europe, its not a law."

is just wrong.  Factually and geographically incorrect. 

[rocker59]

I don't know how much if the weight of say, a Stelvio is in the engine. Granted, an 850 might not serve to save weight over the 1200 but unless I'm mistaken (happens) doesn't less stress from the available power allow for lightening of other components?
 

I've not seen the weights of the Guzzi big blocks of various displacements, but I do have a data point:

Harley's 883 Sportster engine is heavier than the 1200 Sportster engine.  A small amount.

The reason is the smaller pistons require smaller holes in the cylinders.  The 883 cylinders have more meat in them, and thus weigh more.

Guzzi's 850 vs  1200 big block is sort of the same deal.  The 850 is a short throw crankshaft applied to a Breva 1100 engine.  The only difference in the weight of the two engines would be in the small weight savings the shorter throw crank might have.  And that won't be much.

The only chance Guzzi would have at knocking 100 lbs off a Stelvio would be to use a small block engine as the starting point.

[rocker59]

Dunno about the rest of it, but this part:  ".  . . The name? The road where the pavement ends on the Florida to Alaska ride. About time a name came from some place other than just Europe, its not a law."

is just wrong.  Factually and geographically incorrect.

Yeah.  I was going to note that, too, but didn't want to sound like I was picking on him!

I like "Denali" better.  GM probably won't even notice if Guzzi uses it...

[rodekyll]

*sigh*
I'm gonna start sounding like I'm picking on people, but really I'm picking on inaccuracies.

Koyukon is a group of people.  Their language is Athabascan.  Denali is an Athabaskan word.  It means "prominent one" or 'tall one'.

Regardless, if HD isn't upset about guzzi plagiarizing "EV" (for EVolution), then neither GM nor the Alaska natives will mind the use of Denali.

[rocker59]

Plus, "Denali" has a nice Italian ring to it...   

[cruzziguzzi]

I'm at a complete loss to understand this theoretical/fantastical infatuation with a MG big block which might have a displacement starting with an 8 or a 9. Even being the owner of an 883 Sportster this limiting of displacement is odd to me.

Are we to expect a long stroke torquer?
A short stroke revver?
Longer range from MPG savings?
Some un-capitalized upon grater smoothness?
Perceived insurance/licensing savings?

Reminds me of weirdos coming into our shop (NEVER, ever be a manufacturer with a retail shop!) decrying whatever length barrels we currently offered on our rifles. Also picking nits with chambers, rifling dimensions, twist rates... never ending dimensional critiques with barely a whiff of engineering substance.

As far as RK's general tack... I'm feeling it but 'round these parts, support from me is more likely to add fuel rather than water to a fire.  'Course, some fires are controlled burns to cause.

Todd.

[oldbike54]

*sigh*
I'm gonna start sounding like I'm picking on people, but really I'm picking on inaccuracies.

Koyukon is a group of people.  Their language is Athabascan.  Denali is an Athabaskan word.  It means "prominent one" or 'tall one'.

Regardless, if HD isn't upset about guzzi plagiarizing "EV" (for EVolution), then neither GM nor the Alaska natives will mind the use of Denali.

 While you are at it , can you also straighten out folks who keep using the word Sioux 

  Dusty

[canuguzzi]

The name could be Bayou for all it matters. Engine size could be 650-1400 too. What is offered for sale isn't selling into the record books unless its an internal record.

The weight could be pared down, others have done it and there is no reason from a design standpoint it can't be done with a MG. There could be financial considerations but so what?

Few people here like the MGX21 but MG is making it. There is no influence from this forum dictating anything MG does so its all just discussion.

[rocker59]

Internal records are all that count for an OEM producing 7,000 machines per year.

[goozy]

Howz bout bringing back the 500 single and stuffing it into a KLR frame, I'd buy that!

[PJPR01]

No way an Italian bike will be named Hyder or Haider or Hydra...it just doesn't sound like an intriguing beautiful Italian bella donna or adventure, too Cherman sounding!

Stelvio, Griso, Bellaggio, Audace,  Norge (exception but with reason)

How about something like Bianca, Neblina, Nero, Malaga, Tiberio, Cesare or something else that elicits intrigue, adventure, misty smoke on the water or related to Italian tradition or design.

Can probably rule out Arrabbiata, Puttanesca or Porca la Miseria!

:)

[rodekyll]

It's like saying all English names on the planet were assigned by Australians.  It's probably a wrong assumption.

The name "Denali" is lost in antiquity.  Any of a large group of athabaskan-speaking peoples who lived near or frequented the place over the last 30,000 years or so could have named it.  All we can tell for sure is the language it came from.

Dusty -- not getting into the Sioux thing.  I know my Alaska.  Don't know so much about the Sioux, other than there's a bunch of sub-groups.

[canuguzzi]

Internal records are all that count for an OEM producing 7,000 machines per year.

Then make something that sells better. That is what most other businesses do. The ones that don't lose dealers, recycle designs and have poor supply chains for parts. The same ones that build in bad designs for components year after year. They could use a clean slate instead of sending the designers into warehouse full of old parts and tell them to come up with something new so long as all the parts are old.

What would you do if what you were selling wasn't selling well, keep making the same thing? Obviously MG wants to sell more not less or the same otherwise the MGX-21 wouldn't have seen the light of day. There is room for something other than another cruiser or naked standard type design.

Sell 70,000 instead of 7,000. That will not happen with their current lineup.

It isn't like the MG engines are so sophisticated they couldn't be made in much larger numbers. People do buy bikes that share engine designs but appeal to different riders.

It isn't like the engines in the Griso, Stelvio and Norge are different animals and the bikes themselves are quite different from one another. In a.lesser displacement/weight class, what is there? Pretty much naked street bikes that to many people are more nor less clones of each other.

The 4 cyl BMWs aren't any less BMW. Somehow they looked forward andnpast the same small market for the opposed twin and sold a lot of bikes that weren't. If MG decided to make a bike without the V twin, it would still be a MG regardless of what the purists say.

[rodekyll]

Well dangit , thought maybe folks might believe you that it isn't even a word 

  Dusty

It's not a Sioux word.  As I was told, it was applied by the French as a taunt.  The french borrowed it from another local tribe because it drove the Lakota/Dakota people nutz.

[canuguzzi]

Dunno about the rest of it, but this part:  ".  . . The name? The road where the pavement ends on the Florida to Alaska ride. About time a name came from some place other than just Europe, its not a law."

is just wrong.  Factually and geographically incorrect.

HYDER
http://www.mctourer.com/rides/2015/Hyder/LD.html

I thought the designation for Alaska was AK. There is also a place called HYDER in Alaska and it has a place there where the road does end and turns into off-paved road.

From that site:

"NORTH, to ALASKA – Destination Hyder!
It’s been awhile since the MTF invaded Alaska, but 2015 is your chance with 5 - count ‘em, FIVE - IBA ways to get there!

    1. For the traditionalists, you can start in Hyder, AZ and ride the Hyder(AZ) to Hyder(AK) 2.4 – 2,400+ miles, depending on your routing, in 2.4 days.
    2. How about a Saddlesore 2K from Cheyenne, WY?
    3. Or a Saddlesore 3K from Fort Worth?
    4. Coming from the East Coast? Join us for a Saddlesore 3K from Pittsburgh.
    5. Not enough for you? Then let’s meet in JAX for a Saddlesore 4K to Hyder!

Departure dates for all rides have been chosen so riders arrive at the Sealaska Inn in Hyder, AK on Friday, May 22nd, 2015 – just in time for Memorial Day weekend."

There is a tour that goes from Florida too. Tell them they are factually and geographically wrong.

[rodekyll]

Yes, AK is Alaska.  But look it up on a better site than 'mctourer.com' and tell me how to get into Alaska by continuing down the road from Hyder.

To get to Hyder you go west on the Yellowhead to Canada hwy 37, take a left onto 37A and run along Bear Glacier for about a half-tank of gas.  The road takes you through Stewart, BC, over a little crossing, and then you're in Hyder.  It's the end of the line -- yes, the pavement ends.  At a warf.  So to continue into Alaska via Hyder you'd need an open water boat big enough to haul the bike.  No, the interisland ferry doesn't go there, and you're still two days (or more) from a highway crossing into AK.

Now if you want the end of the continental road system, check out Anchor Point.  It's as far west as you can go in NA without some other means of travel.

[lucian]

How did you come up with the name,   Hyder?      I guess it would be a Low Hyder.  Will never replace the Griso .