'77 LeMans - Maine Craigslist...

[radguzzi]

Not mine, no connection to the seller etc...  Just an FYI.

Appears to be a ridden motorcycle, not a garage queen. 


http://maine.craigslist.org/mcy/5245677148.html

[lucian]

For nine grand you would have to want it really bad. A couple thousand more will get you a brand new Griso.

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

For nine grand you would have to want it really bad. A couple thousand more will get you a brand new Griso.

Have you seen what 850 Le Mans are selling for now? One near me that needed work sold for $15k. IMO this one was a good deal at $9k. FWIW, a customer of mine bought it for $8500 and will be bringing it here for me freshen up. Guess he wanted it "really bad".

"A couple of thousand more will get you a brand new Griso" and in a few years time it'll be worth about half of your purchase price. Maybe in 40 years the Griso will be a collectible classic too.  The 850 Le Mans on the other hand, already is and will likely continue to appreciate.

[lucian]

I had no idea they were bringing that kind of $, I'm glad you will be getting the job of putting her back to were she belongs. Hopefully we'll get some pic's when your done. I just turned down a MkmIII v50 in great shape for $2800, maybe I should rethink that one. Don't really follow vintage bike values, only tend to remember  what they used to go for back when they were common in the good old day's. Agree it's a great collector , but personally I'd rather ride a Griso for an every day ride. Best of luck with it.   Dave

[jabberwocky]

That bike was just on ebay very recently. It didn't sell because bidding only went up to about $5800, below the reserve. In the eBay listing, he mentioned that the frame I believe was from an 850T, non matching numbers, but everything else was LM1 original. I'm sure that's why nobody bid more. Must have bent the frame in a wreck at some point, and replaced the frame. Maybe I missed it, but in the CL ad, I don't think he mentioned the non-matching numbers.

[Cam3512]

The ad makes no mention of a different frame, only that it needs paint (they all eventually do).  The original switches were crap.  Good deal for whomever bought it. 

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

That bike was just on ebay very recently. It didn't sell because bidding only went up to about $5800, below the reserve. In the eBay listing, he mentioned that the frame I believe was from an 850T, non matching numbers, but everything else was LM1 original. I'm sure that's why nobody bid more. Must have bent the frame in a wreck at some point, and replaced the frame. Maybe I missed it, but in the CL ad, I don't think he mentioned the non-matching numbers.

Thanks for that information, I've passed it on to my customer and he'll likely back out of the deal. No mention of the replacement frame in the ad or when my customer spoke with him. Pretty underhanded... 

[Cam3512]

Thanks for that information, I've passed it on to my customer and he'll likely back out of the deal. No mention of the replacement frame in the ad or when my customer spoke with him. Pretty underhanded... 

Might not be the same bike...

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

Might not be the same bike...

Definitely the same bike - same photos, same description, same location.

[Peter from Sch'dy]

That's just not right. Perhaps omitted by mistake as it was revealed in other auction? Hope so.

Best,
Peter

[dxhall]

Is there a difference between a '76 T3 frame and a '77 LeMans frame?   If there isn't, I might be tempted to keep it if I could get a title. 

I'm not big on the "matching number" thing, but I would think that the problem here is that title goes to the frame number, not the motor number.  If  that's how buyer's state does titles, the buyer has a '76 T3, not a LeMans.

[steven c]

For nine grand you would have to want it really bad. A couple thousand more will get you a brand new Griso.

I have toyed of selling my 77 LeMans and getting a Griso which to me is a modern LeMans, but this morning I just got back from a brisk ride on it, with those Bub's signing away, a nice twisty road, a fall morning with that great October light, the bike just stirs my soul. And hurts my neck and wrists but I only noticed that back in the garage.

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

That's just not right. Perhaps omitted by mistake as it was revealed in other auction? Hope so.

Best,
Peter

The seller made no mention of it when my customer spoke to him on the phone. That to me makes it seem like he was trying to hide it. 

Is there a difference between a '76 T3 frame and a '77 LeMans frame?   If there isn't, I might be tempted to keep it if I could get a title. 

I'm not big on the "matching number" thing, but I would think that the problem here is that title goes to the frame number, not the motor number.  If  that's how buyer's state does titles, the buyer has a '76 T3, not a LeMans.

Frames are the same AFAIK. According to the ad, Maine doesn't title vehicles over a certain age, so there is no title, only a registration. Perhaps the seller moved the VIN tag from the damaged frame to the T3 frame. In that case, the numbers would match until you looked at the numbers stamped into the frame itself. 

[dxhall]

Better have your customer check with his state's DMV.  When I tried to title an old out-of-state Guzzi with mismatched motor and frame numbers, the Colorado DMV wouldn't do it.  If he's required to get a bonded title or an assigned VIN for this bike, I'd walk on the deal.

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

Better have your customer check with his state's DMV.  When I tried to title an old out-of-state Guzzi with mismatched motor and frame numbers, the Colorado DMV wouldn't do it.  If he's required to get a bonded title or an assigned VIN for this bike, I'd walk on the deal.

My customer has already backed out of the deal.

[Guzzistajohn]

Have you seen what 850 Le Mans are selling for now? One near me that needed work sold for $15k. IMO this one was a good deal at $9k. FWIW, a customer of mine bought it for $8500 and will be bringing it here for me freshen up. Guess he wanted it "really bad".

"A couple of thousand more will get you a brand new Griso" and in a few years time it'll be worth about half of your purchase price. Maybe in 40 years the Griso will be a collectible classic too.  The 850 Le Mans on the other hand, already is and will likely continue to appreciate.

:1:

[LeRoy]

This whole thread is another confirmation of the many benefits of the WildGuzzi forum.

If Rod hadn't posted notice of the Craigslist ad...
And, if jabberwocky hadn't linked it to the concluded eBay auction that included disclosure of the frame swap...
And, if Charlie hadn't noticed all this and communicated with his customer...
Then there would have been a rather sad ending to the purchase his customer had made.

As it is, what would have been a sour transaction was avoided. That's a fine result all the way around. Except, of course, for the seller who seems to have gotten what he deserved for failing to fairly and accurately disclose important information about an otherwise very desirable Guzzi.

[Aaron D.]

I have toyed of selling my 77 LeMans and getting a Griso which to me is a modern LeMans, but this morning I just got back from a brisk ride on it, with those Bub's signing away, a nice twisty road, a fall morning with that great October light, the bike just stirs my soul. And hurts my neck and wrists but I only noticed that back in the garage.

If what you are looking for is a modern LeMans, don't sell your '77. As far as I am concerned, truly usable road worthy sport bikes reached a peak of development in the '70s, and the LM850 series are just about the best of them.

[steven c]

My wife won't let me sell the LeMans anyway.

[jumpmaster]

This whole thread is another confirmation of the many benefits of the WildGuzzi forum.

.......if Charlie hadn't noticed all this and communicated with his customer...
Then there would have been a rather sad ending to the purchase his customer had made.

Yes, really good catch, Charlie.  The prospective purchaser owes you a couple of cold beers on a hot day!

On the other hand, I'm wondering if the customer tried to negotiate a better price based on the actual situation with the bike.  A substantial discount might have made it worth the effort to go thru the hassle of getting the numbers/title straightened out, especially if there is no record of the number actually on the frame being listed as stolen in a state data-base.  Several years ago I bought an old truck from Georgia, with a replacement motor, registered in Maryland without a title (just a bill of sale) on the basis of GA not issuing titles to vehicles over a certain age.  It took some arguing at the DMV & escalating it up to a second-line supervisor, but I'd done my research & helped him find the proper provision in the GA & MD vehicle codes that sanctioned the transaction.

[Aaron D.]

It wouldn't be hard to get a title, but regardless of if frame and nunbers match, the frame number is the VIN and the bike-though for all practical purposes may be a fine LM-is, in the eyes of the law, an 850T with an engine swap.

So a nice machine. Apparently not worth $8500 at this time.