I've been defrauded - NGC

[rodekyll]

Isn't PayPal essentially an Escrow process?

No.

Escrow is when you send money to a third party who holds it while the seller ships the item.  You have X number of days to inspect the item.  If the item meets your expectations, you contact the escrow agent to release the money.  If the item does not meet expectations, you contact the escrow agent with your intention to return the item.  The agent then holds the money until the seller confirms he's gotten the item back.

Paypal is simply a way to transfer money without having to give up your bank info every time.  Although there are 'buyer protection policies' and other protections depending on what your funding source might be, Paypal doesn't hold $$ for transaction approval.  It passes right through their hands from buyer to seller.  As an ebay seller I don't ship the package until paypal says I've got cash.

[keuka4884]

Thanks for more good information. I did not know about the scam sites on the net. That has been saved.
The car, advertised as about pristine, needs brakes, tires, front bushings, thermostat housing and paint on the top of the car. I'm looking for a mechanic who moonlights out of his home at night. Think I've found one. I drove the car and the engine is smooth and strong. Interior is in very good shape. Jaguar put upgraded leather in the Vanden Plas. It has good bones. Next up is to get an estimate of repairs.
Next up legally is to learn how the Florida process operates. When can I put a lien on property. Then we move to a Federal charge for interstate fraud. And learn what the cost of these actions will cost. If the cost is too much, I will probably repair the car. What a hassle.
This you'll find interesting. I blogged this on Wild Guzzi and on Jaguar Forums asking for help. Fellow Guzzi riders have been very helpful. Lots of good input here. But I got banned permanently on Jaguar Forums! No reason, just banned. What a difference in attitude!! Long may the Guzzi community reign!

[canuguzzi]

I found the information below in a Citi Bank manual of their banking practices. They refer to Cashiers Checks as "Official Checks" 
Official Checks and Money Orders. You may not as a matter of
right place a stop payment on an official check, money order, or
international cheque. If such an instrument has been lost, stolen, or
destroyed, you and/or the payee may, under certain circumstances,
be allowed to place a stop payment by completing a �Stop Payment
Request and Indemnity Agreement� form. We may require that you
wait ninety (90) days before reissuing the check or reimbursing
you. You may also be required to purchase a surety bond for twice
the amount of the instrument.

I read the same notice. Refer to the term "Right". There is no right, there is however a way to do it. Words like " may" are not mandatory. Part if getting things done is doing more than reading websites. If reading websites is the final word,  we'd better all lay down right now cause its on the Internet.

[nc43bsa]

This you'll find interesting. I blogged this on Wild Guzzi and on Jaguar Forums asking for help. Fellow Guzzi riders have been very helpful. Lots of good input here. But I got banned permanently on Jaguar Forums! No reason, just banned. What a difference in attitude!! Long may the Guzzi community reign!

Is the seller a mod on the Jag forum?

[canuguzzi]

Legal proceedings are usually very costly and words like " pristine" mean different things to different people. How many times have any of us gone to see a bike that was "surgically maintained" only to find they meant it literally, doing very specific and detailed things, none that really helped maintain anything?

Even escrow accounts aren't total protection because the other party can contest the eval and in some cases the escrow company waits for resolution which can take time. You can put timelines in but still it can get sticky.

When buying expensive vehicles, an appraisal from a well recognized appraiser can be very helpful. If they follow standards you'll know the quality of the vehicle before money changes hands. You'll get detailed pictures, video, a mechanical appraisal and title research. You then have a record from an unbiased source representing the condition and operation at the time of the appraisal.

Prep for a long distance sale can be worth the entire amount of the purchase price and beats trying to recover in court.

As we all know, fraud isn't always easy to prove, even when a condition you thought was represented turned out not to be, everyone sees things different.

One more thing. If a car is collectable, beware of making anything to do with the purchase, condition and so on public. It stays on the Internet forever and while I'm not saying hide things later on, loose lips sink ships, don't divulge things not asked about. Making it all public removes discretion. Just saying.

[Bill Hagan]

****
One more thing. If a car is collectable, beware of making anything to do with the purchase, condition and so on public. It stays on the Internet forever and while I'm not saying hide things later on, loose lips sink ships, don't divulge things not asked about. Making it all public removes discretion. Just saying.

Exactly, but I'll add that if something does go to litigation, opposing counsel will seek to obtain all sorts of info, including personal emails that relate to the matter.

That can be painful in all sorts of ways.  Ask the 42d POTUS. 

The moral is, as Sgt. Esterhaus used to say on HSB: "Let's be careful out there."

Bill

P.S.  I cannot believe that Veronica Hamel is 71.   

[keuka4884]

NC, I wondered that too! But with these guy's reputations, I doubt it. But it is weird. Banned permanently for asking for help.

I don't think it will cost much to get a judgement, it's the follow up that might get pricey. But if I can place a lien on his car or property I'm in. I have great patience. I will get him and keep all posted. I expect this to take some time.

I emailed Ebay putting them on notice that if they allow him to sell more cars they are liable. They are now aware of this fraudulent seller. I even sent the link Bill Hagan posted (thanks again Bill). Next is to write the Florida attorney general's office and the federal CFPB (Consumer Finance Protection Bureau).

The car is not collectable, just awesome. I owned an 85 XJ6 and loved it! This car has many cues to that car, with a lot bigger, honkin engine. It gets 26-28 mpg on the highway. Puky in town. But I don't care. I'm retired and drive around 8000 miles a year so I can own most any car. I came close to buying a Lamborghini Espada about 20 years ago. You could get a good one for less than $15000 then. The price of this XJ8 series has finally fallen to my price range.

[johnr]

The car, advertised as about pristine, needs brakes, tires, front bushings, thermostat housing and paint on the top of the car. I'm looking for a mechanic who moonlights out of his home at night. Think I've found one. I drove the car and the engine is smooth and strong. Interior is in very good shape. Jaguar put upgraded leather in the Vanden Plas. It has good bones. Next up is to get an estimate of repairs.

Brakes , tyres and suspension bushings just about rank as consumables. They are items that wear and will require replacement from time to time anyway. (old suspension bushings contribute much to the 'bucket of bolts' feel an old car can have).
A thermostat housing should not cost much. The paint is unfortunate and could be expensive, but once it's new again?

Labour costs are going to be the biggie here.
 

Next up legally is to learn how the Florida process operates. When can I put a lien on property. Then we move to a Federal charge for interstate fraud. And learn what the cost of these actions will cost. If the cost is too much, I will probably repair the car. What a hassle.

Blagging the seller is certainly a must do, though feedback on ebay or some other legit means. 

Recovering repair costs I'm not so sure about. It could be a case of throwing good money after bad. Be very careful, and weigh whether or not it is worth the hassle. I know if I was on the other side of this I could think of some very plausible defenses and a lawyer could probably think of even better ones. 

This you'll find interesting. I blogged this on Wild Guzzi and on Jaguar Forums asking for help. Fellow Guzzi riders have been very helpful. Lots of good input here. But I got banned permanently on Jaguar Forums! No reason, just banned. What a difference in attitude!! Long may the Guzzi community reign!

That is indeed weird and I would be tempted to try and find out why, just out of curiosity.

The car is not collectable, just awesome. I owned an 85 XJ6 and loved it! This car has many cues to that car, with a lot bigger, honkin engine. It gets 26-28 mpg on the highway. Puky in town. But I don't care. I'm retired and drive around 8000 miles a year so I can own most any car. I came close to buying a Lamborghini Espada about 20 years ago. You could get a good one for less than $15000 then. The price of this XJ8 series has finally fallen to my price range.

Well this is the thing at the end of the day.
 
It IS an awesome car. Frankly I would love one if I could afford it. Obviously you appreciate it and would keep it, and look you, you have got one and it only has minor defects. 

If you are going to keep the car rather than flick it on to make money, and I think you are, does paying a bit much for it really figure in the long term?

Your only real bone of contention / annoyance is that the seller did not tell you about the repairs needed and so mis-represented it a bit. This has left you understandably sour.

'Twere me, I think I would have a strong drink, curse a bit, damn the seller to hell and get on with the repairs.

It IS a hell of a car.

[jackson]

I purchased a new Jaguar VDP in 1992.  I drove it around 50k miles and had zero problems.  Maintenance wasn't cheap but it was a fun car.  For a heavy car, it handled very well on twisty, mountain roads.  My company car at that time was a the big Mercedes SEL (4 door) and it was a very nice car but the Jag was more fun to drive.  I kept the Jag for around 3 1/2 years before selling it and after it was gone, I really missed the driving experience that I enjoyed with that car.  The VDP interior was very high end wood & leather.  If you can get the things that need to be repaired at a reasonable cost and the drive train is solid, I think that you'll really enjoy the car.