Details of the New Triumph Classics

[Rough Edge racing]

Except even that changed over the years  Ironic that this most English of companies was started by a German /

  Dusty

  For enthusiasts, Triumph started in 1938 with the introduction of the game changing 500 Speed Twin...And pretty much was over by 1970 when Triumph,despite being modestly profitable all the years, was dragged under by the stupidity of the BSA management.
  The new Triumphs are modern engineering that stand on their own merit with no connection to the old company .

[rocker59]

I wonder how the Griso components in a retro MG would sell?

Like hotcakes.

[oldbike54]

  For enthusiasts, Triumph started in 1938 with the introduction of the game changing 500 Speed Twin...And pretty much was over by 1970 when Triumph,despite being modestly profitable all the years, was dragged under by the stupidity of the BSA management.
  The new Triumphs are modern engineering that stand on their own merit with no connection to the old company .

 Except the old timers also revered the brand in 1910 . Triumphs were generally considered one of the most reliable , well built MCs of the early period . Some of the Val Page stuff was brilliant , even Turner admitted as much .

  Dusty

[canuguzzi]

In mid 95 when Triumph stuffed their newer Hinckley 1200 four into the small fairing Trophy it was off to the races. I had one in blue, a 96 model year and few were brought to the USA but what a bike! It looked like it was going 150 just sitting there.

Geared a little shorter than the large fairing model that started in 96 as well, it was as missile. As reliable as the sun rising it was pure joy to ride.

You get a nod from everyone when you ride a Triumph, regardless of what they ride. I notice that a HD rider almost always looks and gives you the nod, they know great bikes too.

[jas67]

I wonder how the Griso components in a retro MG would sell?

Like hotcakes.

 :1:

As would a 850cc V7 with aero heads or modern 4V heads making 65-75 HP.

[bpreynolds]

You get a nod from everyone when you ride a Triumph, regardless of what they ride. I notice that a HD rider almost always looks and gives you the nod, they know great bikes too.

I do enjoy my 90 HP Thunderbird.  Ahem.  When it's running.   I used to think Guzzis inspired love/hate relationships but then I met and spent, am spending rather, such long garage time with this one that it defines the characterization.  Overbuilt in some aspects, underbuilt in others, but mostly confounding in many.  Still.  When she's running I'm terribly sweet on her.

[leafman60]

I had an '06 Thruxton and never had any trouble except that an exhaust header bolt broke off once.

[bpreynolds]

I had an '06 Thruxton and never had any trouble except that an exhaust header bolt broke off once.

I'm sure they have their problems just like other manufacturers but on the whole the more modern Triumphs seem to make Superman look a bit soft.  Guzzis are still the most dependable bikes I've ever owned but the Street Triple I had certainly gave them a run for the money.  The thing was ridiculous, mostly.  Started every morning no matter how cold on the very first crank without a hint of hesitation and never needed anything except oil and filter which were both changed in a matter of short minutes.  Even the bike's chain seemed eons more quality and lasted much longer than the ones I had on my Ducatis and other rides. 

[steven c]

 Interview with Tirumphs Stuartt Wood.
 http://www.pistonheads.com/news/general-pistonheads/stuart-wood-ph2-meets/33164

[Kev m]

Interview with Tirumphs Stuartt Wood.
 http://www.pistonheads.com/news/general-pistonheads/stuart-wood-ph2-meets/33164

Nice to hear!

PH2: Was water cooling essential?
SW: "Air cooling was always an option, but it would have been a case of wringing it out rather than planning for the future. Water cooling, along with ride-by-wire, allowed us to optimize the engine and deliver 36 per cent better fuel economy as well as far more power. Air cooling would have required degrading the engine's performance to meet emissions laws. This bike's engine is now at the start of its development where an air-cooled one would have been right on its limits. The new Bonnie's engine and chassis has taken as much time, effort and R&D to develop as an equivalent sports bike. In fact, the Bonneville development team was twice as big as any other team Triumph has used to develop a new bike and it still took four years."

[molly]

Goes to show how much Triumph value the retro style market by putting all that effort into the new bikes.

I'm not a big fan of water cooling on bikes but to meet emissions and achieve better fuel economy, which I am in favor of it looks like it is the only way forward.
 Triumph have developed their engines to run weaker in larger areas of the fuel map but still retain good power, something that  would probably overheat an air cooled motor. One way or another Guzzi will need to go the same way before much longer.

[JeffOlson]

Ordered. Deposit paid. A basic, stock, gray Thruxton R:



I want another cafe racer, and I really like what I have seen and read so far. However, I still have plenty of time to change my mind (until March or April). Come on, MG, persuade me otherwise!

[Kev m]

Ordered. Deposit paid. A basic, stock, gray Thruxton R:



I want another cafe racer, and I really like what I have seen and read so far. However, I still have plenty of time to change my mind (until March or April). Come on, MG, persuade me otherwise!

 

[JeffOlson]

^ Thanks!

Of course, if I do end up buying this, I will need to buy passenger foot pegs and a dual seat so I can take my wife for rides now and then. (Triumph has been really great with factory and non-factory accessories, and I expect these extra bits will be available when the bike is ready.) Later, I will probably replace the stock cans with the factory-approved V&H cans, install a factory FEK (fender elimination kit) and smaller turn signals, and...

As my wife has mentioned a time or two, I cannot leave well enough alone.

[tonUPRacer]

I'll definitely be checking out the "R" as well. When I had the chance to try out a friends '13 Thruxton, I liked it, but not as much as my Racer. If they have a Thurxton R that I can demo, it may spell the end of the Racer's days in my garage. Character can only go so far. High quality suspension, ABS, 100hp, full accessory catalog, hard to beat. We'll see, it would be bittersweet parting since I really do love so many things about my Racer.

[blackcat]

The bike looks very nice but whenever I read, "brand new engine...." on any brand, I'm a little reluctant to jump. Better to wait and see how it is in the real world before plucking down some bucks.

[leafman60]

I checked with the dealer in Atlanta yesterday.  MSRP on the Thruxton is $14,500 for the R model and 12,500-12,700 on the standard model depending on color (or colour). I'm sure additional carges- shipping, dealer prep, etc etc will be added.

They say delivery will not be until May or June of next year !

That's one helluva lead time that kills the marketing boost of a new product roll-out.

By the way, I agree with Blackcat.  I am paranoid about first-year new products.

[uncle]

Fist off - as a W650 owner I love the look of the new Thruxton... 

But I do have a couple gripes - 

One - If it's fuel injected, let it be fuel injected!  don't try and hide it inside fake carburetors! the fins on the cylinders that mimic air cooling I think is fine as it probably helps in cooling as well, but a fake set of carbs come on...

two - why would you build a vertical twin only to change the crank position for that 'lub-dub' thus erasing the vertical twin 'charm' -

Not that either of these niggles would keep me off the Thruxton,  and I do love all things 'retro' but I think form should follow function in this case having no visible carbs would not detract from the whole... 

Just me I guess.
Rich

[rocker59]

two - why would you build a vertical twin only to change the crank position for that 'lub-dub' thus erasing the vertical twin 'charm'

Rich

Well, the Triumph man said that the 270 crank helped with balance on the larger displacement engines...  And 1200 is big for a vertical twin.

Why leave it a vertical twin?  Because a vertical twin is Triumph, just like a flat twin is BMW, just like a longitudinal v-twin is Guzzi...

[leafman60]

Well, the Triumph man said that the 270 crank helped with balance on the larger displacement engines...  And 1200 is big for a vertical twin.

Why leave it a vertical twin?  Because a vertical twin is Triumph, just like a flat twin is BMW, just like a longitudinal v-twin is Guzzi...

Ditto

I LOVE the fact that the crank is 270.  I want that sound and feel.

On the throttle bodies, the mimic design is fine.  Looks as good for a throttle body as it did for a carb! lol Only somebody over 50 would probably know anyway.

One niggle for me, as my friend blackcat mentioned the other day, is the stamped joining ridge around the perimeter of the fuel tank. I could live without it but I can also live with it.

Stunning motorcycle.  I bet its performance will be as impressive as its looks.

[canuguzzi]

There is no charm in a non 270 twin, there is vibration of the Honda 350 kind and who really like that?

[bad Chad]

I really don't know what you guys are talking about?   I sort of understand it has something to do with the firing order, but in reality what, 270 360, what does it mean in the real world?

[jas67]

Ordered. Deposit paid. A basic, stock, gray Thruxton R:



I want another cafe racer, and I really like what I have seen and read so far. However, I still have plenty of time to change my mind (until March or April). Come on, MG, persuade me otherwise!

NICE!   

[Kev m]

I really don't know what you guys are talking about?   I sort of understand it has something to do with the firing order, but in reality what, 270 360, what does it mean in the real world?

The lead engineer for the Bonnie answered that in his interview.

Basically once the engine gets to this displacement the differences in size from smaller models makes for differences in vibration that are lessened or more pleasing with the 270 crank than the 360 crank.

[rocker59]

I really don't know what you guys are talking about?   I sort of understand it has something to do with the firing order, but in reality what, 270 360, what does it mean in the real world?

Chad,

The animated illustration on this link will show you the mechanics:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/aa/Straight-twin_engine_with_different_crank_shaft_angles.gif



Some reading on vertical twins here:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straight-twin_engine


As the pistons get bigger with larger displacement, the counterweights of a 360 engine have to get bigger and heavier.

With the 270 engine, the firing order mimics a 90-degree v-twin and requires less counterweight to balance the engine.

I really like the 360 crank on the 650 and 750 Triumphs of yore.  They're really cool machines.

However, I also like the feel of a 90-degree v-twin, so don't have a problem with Triumph's decision on this.

[ohiorider]

There is no charm in a non 270 twin, there is vibration of the Honda 350 kind and who really like that?

You may want to ride a new Bonneville with twin balance shafts with 360 degree crank.  Most Hondas back when used the 180 degree cranks, and they weren't too exciting from either sound or vibe standpoint (IMO).  OTOH, if you don't like the sound of an old Bonneville, or for that matter, a new Bonneville with TOR pipes, well then, you're right ..... there would be no charm to a non-270 degree vertical twin.  Like beauty, charm is in the sensory receptors of the beholder.

[jas67]

As I understand it, aside from sounding like a 90-degree V-twin, which is more pleasing to fans of said V-twins, another advantage of the 270 degree crank is less torsional vibration in the crank.   With a 360 or 180 degree crank, both pistons are at their maximum speed at the same time, and both are stopped at the same time.   With the 270, one is at maximum speed when the other is stopped, and visa versa.   Because of this, the kinetic energy in the reciprocating parts (pistons, rods, etc) is is a lot closer to constant, where with the 360 and 180, it is going from zero to max and back to zero every revolution.

[oldbike54]

As I understand it, aside from sounding like a 90-degree V-twin, which is more pleasing to fans of said V-twins, another advantage of the 270 degree crank is less torsional vibration in the crank.   With a 360 or 180 degree crank, both pistons are at their maximum speed at the same time, and both are stopped at the same time.   With the 270, one is at maximum speed when the other is stopped, and visa versa.   Because of this, the kinetic energy in the reciprocating parts (pistons, rods, etc) is is a lot closer to constant, where with the 360 and 180, it is going from zero to max and back to zero every revolution.

 This .

  Dusty

[ohiorider]

This .

  Dusty

True (I think.)  Somehow it doesn't seem to make a lot of difference when it comes to crank wear over time/miles. In all cases, the pistons are coming to a complete stop, before moving in the opposite direction.  Even in the vaunted BMW flat twin, which is much like a 360 vertical twin, aside from the fact that the pistons are moving in opposite directions when they come to their stop, they still come to a stop at the same time.  The difference is that when they stop, they are pushing/ pulling against each other, vs both pistons pushing/pulling together.  What the hell do I know .... I'm no engine engineer .... just a guy mentally picturing what's happening as the pieces rotate.

[oldbike54]

True (I think.)  Somehow it doesn't seem to make a lot of difference when it comes to crank wear over time/miles. In all cases, the pistons are coming to a complete stop, before moving in the opposite direction.  Even in the vaunted BMW flat twin, which is much like a 360 vertical twin, aside from the fact that the pistons are moving in opposite directions when they come to their stop, they still come to a stop at the same time.  The difference is that when they stop, they are pushing/ pulling against each other, vs both pistons pushing/pulling together.  What the hell do I know .... I'm no engine engineer .... just a guy mentally picturing what's happening as the pieces rotate.

 Also true Bob , but as you stated , the opposed twin works a bit different than a parallel twin . Damn , those old airheads are sweet at 6K RPMs , huh ! Just to confuse the issue even further , from an engineering standpoint , the boxer is a 180 degree V twin , try 'splainin that to a Harley rider 

  Dusty