Details of the New Triumph Classics

[rocker59]

I don't know that I'd characterize them as actively hiding the weight stats. Few manufacturers tout their weights in promotional literature these days. We have a new model introduction and they logically want to focus on the most positive aspects of the machines and there are many.

.

And lighter weight isn't one of them!

Sorta like when the Sportster went rubber mount.  It took awhile for it to come to light that the bike had gained 50-lbs !!!

[canuguzzi]

Maybe the weight isn't as important as everything else. Not everyone cares about weight as a top 1,2 or 3 item.

[bad Chad]

All I'm saying is that if the weight were the same, or only slightly more they would be bragging.  Since they playing the "nothing to see here folks, keep moving", weight has gone up a good bit.

[Kev m]

And lighter weight isn't one of them!

Sorta like when the Sportster went rubber mount.  It took awhile for it to come to light that the bike had gained 50-lbs !!!

.

But the result was a MUCH BETTER all around bike.

[leafman60]

We will soon find out about the weight. That will be interesting. 

Again, looking at the new bike, the frame and running gear do not appear dimensionally or structurally very different from the previous model.  If so, added weight would be in the new engine.  It's significantly large in displacement than the old engine so, yes, bigger pistons and internal components will weigh more. 

Triumph seems to have avoided excessive usage of weight-saving plastics in favor of more substantial and traditional steel parts.

On top of that, we have the water cooling apparatus.  That can add weight.

However, I truly expect that the engineers did think about the weight issue during design and tried to keep it at a minimum. So, we will see.

Keep in mind the weights of other 1200CC bikes. The Griso has a DRY weight of 489 pounds. The similar-sized BMW RnineT (dumb name) has a published WET weight of 489 pounds.   

Low 500-pound range for a 1200 would not be excessive relative to other bikes in the market.

[kingoffleece]

Right.  I've had as much fun on my 3 Bonnies as the V7 I have now.  Very happy with the weight of the Guzzi but it would not be a factor if I get a new Bonnie.

I know so many skilled riders who can make ANY motorbike preform with basic set-up that I've concentrated on making myself more skilled.  The bike won't do it for me.

Nice that we have choices, though, is it not?

[leafman60]

Check out the close-up of the new Bonneville T120-



You can see that Amal Monobloc faux carb and notice the mimic of the round chrome perforated air cleaner behind it. Also, the frame has a nice touch with the spar in front of the wheel and the mimic of the much-loved oil tank of the pre '71 oil tank models and the angle of the seat is just right.  This is about as close to a 1970 Bonneville that you can get- and it's with 1200CC's.

Compare to my 1970 Bonneville 650-



 .

[leafman60]

That 650 engine is still a piece of artwork, though.

[Bob Wegman]

 :1

That 650 engine is still a piece of artwork, though.

:1: :1: :1:

[oldbike54]

 Well dang , all we need now is a twin leading shoe front brake , a slight oil leak from an exhaust side rocker shaft , and maybe a headlight that flickers every now and then , just like stepping into 1970.
Bell bottoms and tie dye anyone ? I like it 

  Dusty

[steven c]

 Can't beat the original!

[leafman60]

Can't beat the original!

It has to be updated and modernized, though, and this latest effort appears tremendously on target.

[JeffOlson]

It has to be updated and modernized, though, and this latest effort appears tremendously on target.

 :1:

[leafman60]

I know it probably would not have been practical but what if they had fitted a kick start to the new models!?

[jackson]

I know it probably would not have been practical but what if they had fitted a kick start to the new models!?

Buaaaaaaaaaaa haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaa
Sounds like a new bike is on the horizon for your doughnut eating friend.

[leafman60]

Hey, I'm sure it would ignite a lot of comments. It would be the ultimate retro touch!

[rocker59]

I remember the kicker on my 1974 XLCH Sportster.

It was fun.  For awhile.

I've learned to like the button...

[Rough Edge racing]

 Why do new bikes have to imitate the "classics" The "faux" carbs are like having mag wheel covers on a car, fake.......They have the styling clues but are much larger, heavier and more densely packed so they they still look like new bikes .....Nothing wrong with having a modern look like a modern bike...

[kingoffleece]

There are  plenty who feel that way and it's not wrong.  However, hubcaps are just a (poor) styling exercise while the style elements of the retro style bikes seem more to me like a tribute, if you will.
It appears to be more of "bring the past into the future" thing.

Noe the Landau roof-well, THAT was bad!

[leafman60]

Plenty "modern" bikes are out there.  Some look like Transformer toys. Most of them could as well be powered by electric motors without much notice.

The style elements set out by bikes like the new Triumphs seem to cross generations of riders and have some inherent mechanical appeal to many people.

These styling cues have been around for about 60 years and are still going strong. H-D has made a most successful industry out of them.

[bpreynolds]

Why do new bikes have to imitate the "classics" The "faux" carbs are like having mag wheel covers on a car, fake.......They have the styling clues but are much larger, heavier and more densely packed so they they still look like new bikes .....Nothing wrong with having a modern look like a modern bike...

Yeah, wish they'd ditch fake carbs.
As per the unstated weight, I guess they could have just lied as a number of manufacturers do - as I understand.

[Rough Edge racing]

Plenty "modern" bikes are out there.  Some look like Transformer toys. Most of them could as well be powered by electric motors without much notice.

The style elements set out by bikes like the new Triumphs seem to cross generations of riders and have some inherent mechanical appeal to many people.

These styling cues have been around for about 60 years and are still going strong. H-D has made a most successful industry out of them.

 I don't disagree with styling because it's done to make the product more attractive to buyers. And selling is why they are in business... In my opinion, Harley in some cases, is a fake copy of itself...The various other manufacturers who make Harley cruiser clones look like generic items with out the sharp and or crude details of the original.
 It's just my opinion because I appreciate the mechanics of the thing more than chrome plated covers. Like a Guzzi engine, it's a interesting lump on it own that shouldn't be concealed.. I agree with journalist Peter Egan,

never trust a bike if you can't see through it...

[Kev m]

I generally reject "fakeness".

As I said earlier (in this thread or the other I forget?), I would not like fake cooling fins bolted over top of a smooth engine case. But if the cooling fins are actually a cast part of the case (and as such they probably contribute to overall engine cooling strategy, even if they were not "necessary") then I can forgive them.

With regards to Harley styling I always disliked the Softail because, as clever as it was, it just seemed silly to "pretend" it was a hard tail. And, with regards to the handling and performance of the bike the Softails always represented the worst of the worst so to speak.

And I'm no fan of chrome, never have been, but it is generally a durable material and I can tolerate SOME.

Now back to the Triumphs. I never rode the vintage machines, they were essentially long out of the market by the time I started riding. And even as a kid I had no real familiarity with them. So the "fake" amal carburetors aren't significant to me.

Now the question I ask is on the EFI air-cooled models or these new water-cooled models are they the actual throttle bodies which have just be styled to look like the carbs of old, or are they "covers" bolted over other components? I can forgive (almost appreciate the former as it is more of an homage than a case of deception). I mean really, it's a modern water-cooled bike that is simply taking the lines, the form, of an older air-cooled bike. But in the end no-one really believes it to be an antique and it's not trying to be.

I guess I could almost say that about Softails in retrospect... maybe my long hatred of them is too severe a position.

I certainly can forgive these Triumphs, so why not the Softail.

Then again, maybe it comes down to function. The Triumph isn't sacrificing too much function for its form.

And that makes all the difference.

[leafman60]

Yeah, wish they'd ditch fake carbs.

Truth is that many of the folks looking at these new bikes will not be old enough or have the experience to know that these pieces hearken to a Monobloc carburetor. They don't even know what a Monobloc is. Heck, they may very not even know what a carburetor is ! lol

I encounter it all the time.  They like the LOOKS even though they don't know the history of the looks.

[leafman60]

I generally reject "fakeness".

As I said earlier (in this thread or the other I forget?), I would not like fake cooling fins bolted over top of a smooth engine case. But if the cooling fins are actually a cast part of the case (and as such they probably contribute to overall engine cooling strategy, even if they were not "necessary") then I can forgive them.

With regards to Harley styling I always disliked the Softail because, as clever as it was, it just seemed silly to "pretend" it was a hard tail. And, with regards to the handling and performance of the bike the Softails always represented the worst of the worst so to speak.

And I'm no fan of chrome, never have been, but it is generally a durable material and I can tolerate SOME.

Now back to the Triumphs. I never rode the vintage machines, they were essentially long out of the market by the time I started riding. And even as a kid I had no real familiarity with them. So the "fake" amal carburetors aren't significant to me.

Now the question I ask is on the EFI air-cooled models or these new water-cooled models are they the actual throttle bodies which have just be styled to look like the carbs of old, or are they "covers" bolted over other components? I can forgive (almost appreciate the former as it is more of an homage than a case of deception). I mean really, it's a modern water-cooled bike that is simply taking the lines, the form, of an older air-cooled bike. But in the end no-one really believes it to be an antique and it's not trying to be.

I guess I could almost say that about Softails in retrospect... maybe my long hatred of them is too severe a position.

I certainly can forgive these Triumphs, so why not the Softail.

Then again, maybe it comes down to function. The Triumph isn't sacrificing too much function for its form.

And that makes all the difference.

I detest true fakeness too.  The Triumph throttle bodies are not just fake covers.  They're integrated  castings. They did the same thing with the current fuel-injected classics but made the throttles mimic the later style CV carbs. The same is true of the fins. Retaining the fins creates a hybrid system that utilizes both direct-air as well as water-cooling.

Forget the historical aspects of the styling for a moment. The new Triumphs just look good.

[Rough Edge racing]

 If your Triumph logo is different than this one, it may not be a Triumph........from Coventry or Meriden   

     

[Kev m]

I detest true fakeness too.  The Triumph throttle bodies are not just fake covers.  They're integrated  castings. They did the same thing with the current fuel-injected classics but made the throttles mimic the later style CV carbs. The same is true of the fins. Retaining the fins creates a hybrid system that utilizes both direct-air as well as water-cooling.

Forget the historical aspects of the styling for a moment. The new Triumphs just look good.

See that works for me!

[oldbike54]

If your Triumph logo is different than this one, it may not be a Triumph........from Coventry or Meriden   

     

 Except even that changed over the years  Ironic that this most English of companies was started by a German /

  Dusty

[drlapo]

technically the new Triumphs don't better the Griso
the Griso is  great bike at a very good price point but he styling is a bit off center
I wonder how the Griso components in a retro MG would sell?

[molly]

Except even that changed over the years  Ironic that this most English of companies was started by a German /

  Dusty

The present set up is really only a badge holder and even that is slightly  different to the 80's bikes logo. No bad thing for me. Meridan was a busted flush and a whole new start was needed. John Bloor did what few thought possible and created a modern forward thinking British company without foreign aid, not bad for a house builder.