Squealing Noise from Gearbox

[novaboy]

Hey folks,

I have a new 2014 V7 Stone. Everything was running perfect on the bike, no issues what so ever. I had the first service done at the dealer about a week and half ago. I rode the bike once since then. A short 20km ride. I noticed a slight whine that was never there before. Today after being away at work for week, I started up the bike, and when I let the clutch out in neutral there was a loud squeal. Pull the clutch in and it goes away. I also noticed with the clutch out, besides the noise the bike seemed to want to creep forward.

I haven't noticed any oil leaks.

The dealer is over an hour away, so I can't get the bike back til next week, due to work, and having to borrow a trailer. Of course the dealer said it wasn't their fault.

Any ideas of what could be the cause or what it could be?

Thanks
Terry

[oldbike54]

 This sounds like another case of a tech not understanding the terminology used by Guzzi and waaaay under filling the transmission . The problem comes from the final drive being called the transmission . Do NOT ride the bike , others will be along shortly . Damn , what is wrong with these techs ?

  Dusty

[novaboy]

Dusty,

If that's the case then, I blame myself for trusting the tech's and not checking myself. F@#k.

[oldbike54]

Dusty,

If that's the case then, I blame myself for trusting the tech's and not checking myself. F@#k.

 No , we should be able to trust that a trained tech knows what he is doing . Maybe Guzzi should publish an addendum to address the confusion . We have at least two threads re this on WG .

 Oh , the creeping issue sounds like a poorly adjusted clutch cable .

  Dusty

[Mike Harper]

No , we should be able to trust that a trained tech knows what he is doing . Maybe Guzzi should publish an addendum to address the confusion . We have at least two threads re this on WG .

 Oh , the creeping issue sounds like a poorly adjusted clutch cable .

  Dusty6

(No , we should be able to trust that a trained tech knows what he is doing )

I have shake my head every time I see or hear someone say or post something about a TRAINED  Guzzi tech or hear the term "factory trained Guzzi mechanic"  There is no such thing working in any Guzzi Dealership now or ever in the past.

The closest possible individual would be a shop mechanic that has attended a Guzzi two or three day seminar.  That does not even come close to the term "trained tech" or "factory trained mechanic"  Through all 7 USA importers and distributors Moto Guzzi has never had any service training other than short seminars on new models. Definitely not any factory sponsored schooling.

Any good Moto Guzzi mechanic has learned his trade and earned his wings all by experience and taking the time to work through the learning process job by job, which actually never ends.

Just because the guy works at a dealership that took on Guzzi does not make him a "Trained Guzzi Tech."

[jackson]

This could also possibly be another "clutch adjustment" issue.  If the adjustment in the clutch cable is not correct, this can cause the problem that you're having.  It needs to be looked at by someone who is competent.......... and quickly.

[oldbike54]

 Sorry Mike , how is the general buying public supposed to know that ? If I contract to paint a house the customer has a reasonable expectation that the job will be performed properly .

  Dusty

[novaboy]

Well my local Guzzi dealer is fairly new, they have had Guzzi's for a couple of years and I don't think they have sold or serviced too many. However I thought a simple service wouldn't be out of realm of skill for a tech. I pondered doing the service myself and figured I'd let the dealer do the first one in case of issues.

I hope this doesn't end up being a fight with the dealer for an expensive repair.

[acogoff]

    Instead of wondering, get wrenches out and check the oil levels for Pete"s sake and not the Roper, Pete.

[Mike Harper]

Sorry Mike , how is the general buying public supposed to know that ? If I contract to paint a house the customer has a reasonable expectation that the job will be performed properly .

  Dusty

There is really no way to know what the shops mechanics are capable of.  The tech may be great or he could have just been promoted up from cleanup boy. Who can tell ?

If the shop or the tech is going to BS a customer about them being a "Factory trained mechanic" then I would be backing away . 

You just have to go with who you trust.

[oldbike54]

There is really no way to know what the shops mechanics are capable of.  The tech may be great or he could have just been promoted up from cleanup boy. Who can tell ?

If the shop or the tech is going to BS a customer about them being a "Factory trained mechanic" then I would be backing away . 

You just have to go with who you trust.

 Well , and that is a good point .

  Dusty

[novaboy]

Before I head out to the cold garage, if the fluid level was low, would the issue not be there right from the beginning, and not slowly rear it's head as I rode? When I finished the ride there was no loud squeal at all, just a whine when riding. After the bike sitting for over a week, the noise was there right away, as soon as the clutch was let out.

[oldbike54]

 Probably . Where are you Pete ?

  Dusty

[Vasco DG]

Take out the gearbox drain plug and measure how much oil comes out. It should be a ful litre.

What I can't understand is how anybody can drain a gearbox and then think it is right to put in only a 1/4 or 1/3 as much oil as came out? It's cretinous.

The reason it wasn't immediately apparent is because it takes time for bearings to shit themselves to the point they howl.

Pete

[oldbike54]

 You really need to document this , get a witness , video the findings , call in the FBI , whatever it takes . If the problem is what I think it is , you need to have indisputable evidence , not just your word . Really hoping I am wrong ...

  Dusty

[novaboy]

I won't be draining the gearbox oil. The dealer is going to do that, in front of me.

[Vasco DG]

Don't ride it there. If it spits off a tooth or a bearing collapses it could lock up the box. Since the box is downstream of the clutch pulling the clutch in won't help and you get into 'Earth/Sky-Earth/Sky-Earth-Ambulance territory.

Pete

[sign216]

Keep us posted.  I'm interested.

[oldbike54]

Don't ride it there. If it spits off a tooth or a bearing collapses it could lock up the box. Since the box is downstream of the clutch pulling the clutch in won't help and you get into 'Earth/Sky-Earth/Sky-Earth-Ambulance territory.

Pete

 Nova , listen to this advice .

  Dusty

[novaboy]

no worries, I do not plan on riding it. The next ride for the Guzzi is in a trailer to the dealer.

[Guzzistajohn]

Sorry Mike , how is the general buying public supposed to know that ? If I contract to paint a house the customer has a reasonable expectation that the job will be performed properly .

  Dusty

Well, I guess you could ask a old dude with 30-40 years of Guzzi 'sperience right Mike?

[Mike Harper]

Now why didn't I think of that

[Moto]

no worries, I do not plan on riding it. The next ride for the Guzzi is in a trailer to the dealer.

Did the dealer mark the fill plug after tightening it (with a paint stripe or dot)? If not, I'd unscrew the fill plug (not the drain plug) and see if the oil level is visible within a short distance of the bottom of the fill hole. (Might use a toothpick as dip stick.)

It would a shame to trailer your bike all the way to the dealer just to find out the transmission is in fact topped up (and your problem is something else).

If you'd be breaking a paint mark, it might be better to leave things alone and hit the road with your trailer.

[oldbike54]

Well, I guess you could ask a old dude with 30-40 years of Guzzi 'sperience right Mike?

 That works , unless you are new to the marque and don't know who the old heads are . If every time a new guy needs service he has to call Mike to vet a dealer , Mike is gonna get tired of answering the phone ...

  Dusty

[Mike Harper]

If it is a new bike and you just purchased it from him and no one else has touched it and his mechanic changed the fluids then I can't see how there would be any question who's fault it is.

If the dealer is forth right he should not be telling you anything he should be coming to get the bike and doing his own investigating with his mechanic.  If it is low on oil then the ball is in his court.

[Mike Harper]

 That works , unless you are new to the marque and don't know who the old heads are . If every time a new guy needs service he has to call Mike to vet a dealer , Mike is gonna get tired of answering the phone ...

  Dusty

I don't want to get into Vetting other dealers.  Guzzi needs all the dealers they can get and should not have a somebody second guessing them.
Having said that, Honesty, Integrity and hard work will keep you going in the Guzzi business.   At least for 45 yrs any way

[oldbike54]

I don't want to get into Vetting other dealers.  Guzzi needs all the dealers they can get and should not have a somebody second guessing them.
Having said that, Honesty, Integrity and hard work will keep yougoing in the Guzzi business.   At least for 45 yrs any way

 I care about the marque and the folks who buy them . Wasn't second guessing anyone . The OP had the bike serviced , a well known problem arose , we tried to help the person with the problem . The dealer already stated it wasn't their fault W/O doing any investigation , at this point my loyalties lie with the customer . And yes , 35 years of dealing with the public has taught me one thing , W/O people purchasing a product , more dealers don't make any difference .

  Dusty

[novaboy]

I love the Guzzi brand and this won't sway me from buying another one. But from now on I'll be doing my own routine maintenance. If the transmission oil is under serviced it's their fault, and they can't even turn it on me for not checking the level since the owners manual clearly states that is a dealer function only.

Due to my work schedule I won't even be able to get it up there until next week. I will keep you posted.

The bummer part is.......there are only days left in the riding season and I'm without a bike.

Thanks for all the input folks, I'll let you know how this all unfolds.

[Chuck in Indiana]

Just a minute. The OP said

I noticed a slight whine that was never there before. Today after being away at work for week, I started up the bike, and when I let the clutch out in neutral there was a loud squeal. Pull the clutch in and it goes away. I also noticed with the clutch out, besides the noise the bike seemed to want to creep forward.

I'm having a problem understanding why an underfilled transmission would cause this. Might this be a mis adjusted clutch? I know it's tough describing sounds..

[oldbike54]

Just a minute. The OP said
I'm having a problem understanding why an underfilled transmission would cause this. Might this be a mis adjusted clutch? I know it's tough describing sounds..

 Dry bearing .

  Dusty