Author Topic: Commuting by Motorcycle advice  (Read 10631 times)

Offline vstevens

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Re: Commuting by Motorcycle advice
« Reply #30 on: November 29, 2015, 03:01:16 PM »


*To a person, every co-worker that I have talked to about biking in has asked me about "that thing bikers do going between the cars", generally the first question out of their mouths.  It pisses them off and I have to say, I can relate to their feelings.  I tell them I do not do that, it's called "lane splitting" or "filtering", or if I do, it has to be in bumper to bumper traffic, and then at only a few miles per hour.  I try to educate them about it, but for the most part, they want to know that I'm not the kind to go blasting down between lines of cars pissing them off.
Frankly, I don't understand why people get angry.  Filtering doesn't affect them as they sit in traffic, in fact it eases congestion.  They should be thanking you for riding a motorcycle.  After all, you are both easing traffic congestion and reducing carbon emissions... all while having fun.   :thumb:

Offline BRIO

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Re: Commuting by Motorcycle advice
« Reply #31 on: November 29, 2015, 03:16:28 PM »
Frankly, I don't understand why people get angry.  Filtering doesn't affect them as they sit in traffic, in fact it eases congestion.  They should be thanking you for riding a motorcycle.  After all, you are both easing traffic congestion and reducing carbon emissions... all while having fun.   :thumb:


Yes I think you do understand.

It's the same reason that: people keep insufficient distance in rain, people are unable to see the benefit in keeping to the right,  they slow way down to rubberneck, they put on makeup while driving, browse the internet.

When it comes to driving most people are plain dumb!

rob-mg

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Re: Commuting by Motorcycle advice
« Reply #32 on: November 29, 2015, 05:41:07 PM »
Frankly, I don't understand why people get angry.  Filtering doesn't affect them as they sit in traffic, in fact it eases congestion.  They should be thanking you for riding a motorcycle.  After all, you are both easing traffic congestion and reducing carbon emissions... all while having fun.   :thumb:

I think that some people see filtering as "jumping the queue"/"butting in line".

In the many places where filtering is illegal, informed drivers may also see it as evidence that the rider has no respect for the rules of the road.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2015, 05:52:37 PM by rob-mg »

Offline blackcat

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Re: Commuting by Motorcycle advice
« Reply #33 on: November 29, 2015, 05:59:28 PM »
I think that some people see filtering as "jumping the queue"/"butting in line".

In the many places where filtering is illegal, informed drivers may also see it as evidence that the rider has no respect for the rules of the road.

It seems to be perfectly OK when people break the law of the road but God forbid someone putt's past them while they are crawling along in stop and go traffic.
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Offline JeffOlson

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Re: Commuting by Motorcycle advice
« Reply #34 on: November 29, 2015, 06:00:16 PM »
I think that some people see filtering as "jumping the queue"/"butting in line".

In the many places where filtering is illegal, informed drivers may also see it as evidence that the rider has no respect for the rules of the road.

 :1:

Even if filtering is legal, it may not be the safest thing to do while commuting. An angry cager might try to take you out just for doing something he does not like. Witness the crazy Texas driver recently who swerved into the passing motorcycle, causing the rider and his passenger to crash and suffer injuries. (Fortunately, it was caught on film by another motorcyclist.)
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rob-mg

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Re: Commuting by Motorcycle advice
« Reply #35 on: November 29, 2015, 07:18:27 PM »
It seems to be perfectly OK when people break the law of the road but God forbid someone putt's past them while they are crawling along in stop and go traffic.

Presumably you will now endorse drivers of cars using their cell phones to talk and send text messages while they are in stop and go traffic.

Coincidentally, 20 minutes ago (well after dark) I watched a guy on a motorcycle in my neighborhood on 37th Avenue in Queens, on a dark bike wearing dark clothing, come off a red light and shortly after the intersection, pass, in the same lane (also known as filtering or lane splitting), at at least 25mph, the car immediately in front of him. The driver could not have had any idea that this was about to happen, and if he had moved his car to the left by a foot or two, maybe to turn left at the intersection 150' away (intersections on 37th Avenue are 250' apart), there would have been one hell of an accident.

This kind of behavior does not help the argument for making it legal, in New York, for cyclists and motorcyclists to pass other vehicles in the same lane, or straddling lanes (which comes to the same thing).
« Last Edit: November 29, 2015, 07:38:27 PM by rob-mg »

Offline wheaties

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Re: Commuting by Motorcycle advice
« Reply #36 on: November 29, 2015, 09:01:12 PM »
Frankly, I don't understand why people get angry.  Filtering doesn't affect them as they sit in traffic, in fact it eases congestion.  They should be thanking you for riding a motorcycle.  After all, you are both easing traffic congestion and reducing carbon emissions... all while having fun.   :thumb:

I've learned a lot since I started riding.  Filtering is legal in CA, and an expected practice in Europe and Asia.  Drivers in those places tend to understand that motorcycles ease congestion, but then they live in more crowded circumstances with different economics on average.  More people are likely to have ridden at least a scooter at some time in their lives, or know more than one or two that have.  Well, maybe not CA.

They understand that letting the bike go on has little or no effect to their driving experience.  That bike filtering past won't impede their progress through the light, down the highway, or whatever.  The car in front of them won't be delayed any more, nor the car in front of that, nor the car in front of that.

But the rest of the world thinks you get in line and you wait your turn, no matter who you are.  Limos don't give you the right to cut the line, nor do BMWs, Mercedes, Audis, Volvos, Caddilacs, or Lincolns.   For that matter, what's good for cars is good for bikes.  The car in front of me has the right of way, then I get that piece of road, then the car behind me.  Anyone who cuts the line is an asshole.  Who do they think they are, better than everyone else? Privleged?  Or so the thinking goes...

So I sympathize with those that ask me.  Tell them I don't do it.  Then if they're still listening, I explain why riders do it, why it won't set them back, how successful it is where filtering is understood.  Then I make a point of telling them that it's safe if done only a few mph above the traffic.  Which reminds me...

... I was a kid working in a gas station when a guy on a bike decided to show how fast he could pass all that backed up traffic.  About 1/4 from my station, he met the broadside of a pickup that had patiently crept along till he finally got to his destination and turned left.
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rob-mg

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Re: Commuting by Motorcycle advice
« Reply #37 on: November 29, 2015, 09:13:25 PM »
I've learned a lot since I started riding.  Filtering is legal in CA, and an expected practice in Europe and Asia.  Drivers in those places tend to understand that motorcycles ease congestion, but then they live in more crowded circumstances with different economics on average.  More people are likely to have ridden at least a scooter at some time in their lives, or know more than one or two that have.  Well, maybe not CA.

They understand that letting the bike go on has little or no effect to their driving experience.  That bike filtering past won't impede their progress through the light, down the highway, or whatever.  The car in front of tehem won't be delayed any more, nor the car in front of that, nor the car in front of that.

But the rest of the world thinks you get in line and you wait your turn, no matter who you are.  Limos don't give you the right to cut the line, nor do BMWs, Mercedes, Audis, Volvos, Caddilacs, or Lincolns.   For that matter, what's good for cars is good for bikes.  The car in front of me has the right of way, then I get that piece of road, then the car behind me.  Anyone who cuts the line is an asshole.  Who do they think they are, better than everyone else? Privleged?  Or so the thinking goes...

So I sympathize with those that ask me.  Tell them I don't do it.  Then if they're still listening, I explain why riders do it, why it won't set them back, how successful it is where filtering is understood.  Then I make a point of telling them that it's safe if done only a few mph above the traffic.  Which reminds me...

... I was a kid working in a gas station when a guy on a bike decided to show how fast he could pass all that backed up traffic.  About 1/4 from my station, he met the broadside of a pickup that had patiently crept along till he finally got to his destination and turned left.

This is a terrific analysis of the psychology. The only thing I'd add is that my experience in Europe is that the tolerance for motorcycles, and indeed bicycles, outside cities, is lower than one might think.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2015, 09:15:43 PM by rob-mg »

Offline blackcat

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Re: Commuting by Motorcycle advice
« Reply #38 on: November 30, 2015, 06:35:37 AM »
Presumably you will now endorse drivers of cars using their cell phones to talk and send text messages while they are in stop and go traffic.

Coincidentally, 20 minutes ago (well after dark) I watched a guy on a motorcycle in my neighborhood on 37th Avenue in Queens, on a dark bike wearing dark clothing, come off a red light and shortly after the intersection, pass, in the same lane (also known as filtering or lane splitting), at at least 25mph, the car immediately in front of him. The driver could not have had any idea that this was about to happen, and if he had moved his car to the left by a foot or two, maybe to turn left at the intersection 150' away (intersections on 37th Avenue are 250' apart), there would have been one hell of an accident.

This kind of behavior does not help the argument for making it legal, in New York, for cyclists and motorcyclists to pass other vehicles in the same lane, or straddling lanes (which comes to the same thing).

You really should consider selling your bike or moving to a more sedate area of the country.
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Offline Perazzimx14

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Re: Commuting by Motorcycle advice
« Reply #39 on: November 30, 2015, 06:45:14 AM »
If an alternative safer motorcycle route added an 2 hours daily to the trip, I'd drive a car to and from on the shortest route possible. Then when I got home I'd go for a 2 hour ride on roads that were fun.
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Offline BRIO

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Re: Commuting by Motorcycle advice
« Reply #40 on: November 30, 2015, 08:14:54 AM »
If an alternative safer motorcycle route added an 2 hours daily to the trip, I'd drive a car to and from on the shortest route possible. Then when I got home I'd go for a 2 hour ride on roads that were fun.

The lucky thing here is that the route in question is fun and that it adds an hour in any one given day. I leave for a few days at a time.

Offline Scud

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Re: Commuting by Motorcycle advice
« Reply #41 on: November 30, 2015, 08:24:24 AM »
I'm going 100 miles to LAX tonight for a red-eye East-bound flight. It'll be late enough that I won't need to split lanes - but I do regularly split lanes (legal in California). I'm an advocate for doing it safely, and I think the AMA's position is quite good:

http://americanmotorcyclist.com/rights/positionstatements/lanesplitting.aspx

Check your local airport for free motorcycle parking rules. Here are the rules for Los Angeles International Airport (LAX).

http://www.lawa.org/welcome_lax.aspx?id=8702

Free parking in the closest spot to the terminal... no parking-lot shuttle bus for me...  :grin:
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Offline BRIO

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Re: Commuting by Motorcycle advice
« Reply #42 on: November 30, 2015, 08:36:41 AM »
I'm going 100 miles to LAX tonight for a red-eye East-bound flight. It'll be late enough that I won't need to split lanes - but I do regularly split lanes (legal in California). I'm an advocate for doing it safely, and I think the AMA's position is quite good:

http://americanmotorcyclist.com/rights/positionstatements/lanesplitting.aspx

Check your local airport for free motorcycle parking rules. Here are the rules for Los Angeles International Airport (LAX).

http://www.lawa.org/welcome_lax.aspx?id=8702

Free parking in the closest spot to the terminal... no parking-lot shuttle bus for me...  :grin:

 :thumb: :bike-037:

Parking is right next to the terminal which probably shaves off 15 minutes if you account for undressing.

Offline POP0404

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Re: Commuting by Motorcycle advice
« Reply #43 on: November 30, 2015, 03:25:39 PM »
I commute 75Km's each way every day. My tips are keep your cool, being right can still hurt. Learn and understand driver behaviour and pick you place / lane etc to reflect this. Have some decent rain gear, a pinlock for a full face helmet, I lane split only when traffic is stationary and always acknowledge a driver that give you that little bit of extra space. Most of all relax and enjoy the ride.

Offline cee2cee

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Re: Commuting by Motorcycle advice
« Reply #44 on: November 30, 2015, 05:13:49 PM »
I live in Stuart, and make the trip to MIA a few times a year on my MG.  Really, anywhere in South Florida is a minefield, especially during the winter with all the snowbirds.  Not sure of any backroads you can take south to MIA.  Perhaps 441?  I wear a high viz helmut, ATGAT and installed a horn that would wake the dead, along with two very very bright LED driving lights.  I can swear these lights catch the attention of drivers, who might otherwise 'look through' the single headlight plus I flash my high beam and blow the horn as a precautionary measure whenever approaching most intersections or overtaking.  I would rather have someone look at me and wonder what all the noise was about instead of them not seeing me.  Driving in S. Florida is like driving in Italy, every man for themselves.  Keep a very safe distance, put distance between you and idiot drivers who make you nervous and by all means consider every car the enemy.  Ride safe but ride smart!  BTW where are you commenting from?

Offline SmithSwede

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Re: Commuting by Motorcycle advice
« Reply #45 on: November 30, 2015, 08:35:11 PM »
I commute 100 miles a day all year, all weather, except ice.  Some thoughts:

--here's the single best tip I ever heard.  Took me a while to get it.  -->It's all your fault <--
You are 100% responsible.  If you crash, it's your fault.  Get out of the ingrained mind-set that thinks about who is legally at fault, who is being an "idiot," who should get a ticket, etc. 

STOP. None of that matters.  It's your job to avoid all incidents, so put 100% responsibility on yourself, and accept it.  Don't think "that idiot cut me off."  Think "I screwed up by not anticipating that he would cut me off, and I failed to have an escape path."  Don't think "stupid rain made pavement paint slippery," instead think "I should have recognized the loss of traction the rain would cause."
 

--Strongly agree with prior poster about defensive use of horn.  We are taught not to honk, and to be quiet, for car driving.  I say different rules for bikes.   I'm pretty noisy.  Not rude and pushy--but I'll make some noise if spider sense tells me I'm about to be ignored. 

--I'd also suggest utterly mastering your route.  First, pick the safest route, and optimize it.  But also study and master the chosen route.  Don't go brain dead and just mindlessly ride the path and deal with traffic.  Study it, each day, both ways.  Where have you seen accidents?  Where are the typical snarls and slow-downs?  Low spots that catch water?  Badly marked exits?   Be an observant Sherlock Holmes, and seek out every clue that can enhance your survival.  Since you will basically ride the same route constantly, use that to your advantage, and master every aspect of that route.

--keep a list of your screw-ups and mistakes, and review them regularly, so you don't repeat them and always improve. I actually write mine down.  Same for "close calls."  There should not be too many "close calls," but the ones you do experience should be studied.  As in--"I screwed this up by letting the situation get that bad.  My mistakes were x, y, and z.  I will now resolve to be better at q."

--I'm not sure how to describe this, but I suggest you learn to be "aggressively decisive."  Don't fret and curse that dodgy guy behind you who seems to be tailgating at times--get away from him now.  I used to be nice, and give other drivers multiple chances, and then when they finally wore out my patience, then I'd finally do something.  No more. Do it once, or give me any indication you are dodgy, and I'm immediately gone. Don't hesitate to accelerate, brake, maneuver, honk, wave your arms, etc. 

--ride the traffic gaps.  There are almost always bubbles or gaps in traffic, where there aren't many cars.  Find them, and surf them. 

--give yourself daily challenges to improve your riding.  This keeps you alert, and improving skill set. 

--Look for buddies.  There really are some good, caring drivers out there.  Let them help you, if possible.  Sometimes I'll get somebody behind me who is clearly paying attention, maintaining a safe following distance.  Even though I might prefer to go a bit faster, I often don't--why should I lose my safe rear blocker?

--don't "push."   Don't be impatient, cut corners, try to shave time, beat lights, etc.  I think you should usually feel that you would be perfectly happier to be going 5 mph slower if the risk profile was clearly better.   You get in trouble when you "push" for that extra 5 or 10 mph, and fail to heed the increased risk burden to are trading to get the extra speed.
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Re: Commuting by Motorcycle advice
« Reply #46 on: November 30, 2015, 08:49:16 PM »
 Damn Prescott , that was perfect  :bow:  As an aside , I am always irritated when the weather is blamed for an accident .

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Re: Commuting by Motorcycle advice
« Reply #47 on: November 30, 2015, 08:58:07 PM »
Other than a sinkhole opening up on you, or a rockslide coming down on you, there is no such thing as an 'accident'. Ride defensively, people. It doesn't really matter whose fault it is, you are the one who loses!
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Re: Commuting by Motorcycle advice
« Reply #48 on: November 30, 2015, 09:00:52 PM »
Other than a sinkhole opening up on you, or a rockslide coming down on you, there is no such thing as an 'accident'. Ride defensively, people. It doesn't really matter whose fault it is, you are the one who loses!

 Bill , you forgot the stray meteorite  :laugh:

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Offline JeffOlson

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Re: Commuting by Motorcycle advice
« Reply #49 on: November 30, 2015, 09:18:11 PM »
Speaking of filtering, last summer, on I-5 South near Wilsonville, Oregon, traffic was nearly at a standstill (as it usually is). Three very mean-looking pirates on H-Ds road down the left shoulder of the freeway, to the left of the "fast" lane, single file, at a moderate pace. No foolish drivers tried to stop them by swerving left in front of or into them. I wonder why?

I hate to think that an aggressive appearance or commanding presence helps with commuting on a motorcycle, but perhaps it does.

Back on a white Norge these past few days, I have noticed again that cars get out of my way when I come up behind them, and speeders coming up alongside of me on the left suddenly stop speeding. I wonder why? They never do that when I am on my Vespa!
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Offline Jim Rich

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Re: Commuting by Motorcycle advice
« Reply #50 on: December 01, 2015, 08:10:42 PM »
This is a thread with a lot of good info.

I commute by Guzzi often in Houston, I consider this town to be turning into Mexico City North traffic-wise.  Right now, when commuting, I try to concentrate on creating enough space in front to give me to give a little extra reaction time, stay out of tight spaces, don't be too agressive and be as visible as possible (in riding attire and staying out of blind spots, etc.).   

Offline cee2cee

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Re: Commuting by Motorcycle advice
« Reply #51 on: December 01, 2015, 09:33:37 PM »
Stay on the left side of your lane.  On coming traffic can't see you on the right side of the lane and the center of the lane is where every cage leaks oil and other slippery fluids.  Stay in the left lane and command your lane, keep a good distance from the car in front of you so everyone can see you and you have an escape route should you need it.  I'm a country boy that hates driving anything in the city but find myself having to do it way too often.  Bright lights "every where" and reflective clothing.

This theory about staying in the left side of your lane needs to be qualified IMO.  I have seen far too many riders ride the left lane and drift dangerously close to oncoming traffic and I have witnessed a biker getting taken out by a driver who was on the phone while driving and only crossed the center line by not much.   IF the biker had moved to the right lane he would be alive today.  IMO there are times to ride the left and times to ride the right.  For me, when on a two lane road with on-coming traffic I ride the left when there is no traffic close by, but when a car/truck is approaching I move to the right until they pass.  I goes without saying that I never tailgate so i give myself plenty of room to see around the cars in front.  In todays world there are far too many cage drivers being distracted while driving and it only takes seconds for them to cross that line....
« Last Edit: December 01, 2015, 09:37:25 PM by cee2cee »

andrewdonald1

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Re: Commuting by Motorcycle advice
« Reply #52 on: December 01, 2015, 11:34:51 PM »
I live 1:45 from Miami Airport where I'm based to which I travel 4-6 times per month. I usually take I 95 down. However, SFL drivers tend to become aggressive around the Fort Lauderdale area so I'm planning on driving inland and get there via country highways. This will tack on another hour at least. I'll be riding in a leather jacket and mesh over pants with EVA padding. The bike is a first gen Norge. I've got a north face rain jacket and I'll get some rain pants.

Any nuggets of wisdom and recommendations will be appreciated.

Thank you.

In heavy rush hour traffic on the free way I always run in the far left lane postured in the far left part of that lane.
This gives you the shoulder as an out quickly and one less lane of traffic to potentially deal with.
Its about the law of attrition...

If you are in heavy rush hour traffic and in the far left commuter lane and its traffic (and you) can go much faster compared to the next lane over (the fast lane) and the fast lane is almost stopped or very slow.
People get anxious and impatient in the fast lane and sometimes bolt out into the commuter lane.
I slow down to at most pass at about 20 or 30 mph past the traffic in the lane to my right, I also run as far left in the left lane.
this gives you the shoulder and maximum time to avoid a potential car moving into your lane.
I also potentially run the high beams in this situation.
Again its about the law of attrition...

These two above rules have saved me multiple times over 20 years riding in high density urban freeways in nasty Seattle traffic.
One time frankly I was in the far right lane in high density traffic (running far right very close to the shoulder) and a 18 wheeler decided he was pissed off and blew right out in front of me from the next lane to the left.
I was on a bike with amazing brakes, however I swerved into the right shoulder hard and hammered the brakes...even with that bike I was half way into the 18 wheeler but next to him in the shoulder.

So the shoulder is a life saver for me.. above rules I very RARELY ignore.. Most times even in the car, I run the same way.. and its saved me many a times from people. 

I read a good article in "rider" magazine or one of those a while back about being "dead wrong"
Meaning always be on your guard and assume everyone will not obey traffic laws or common sense...be ready to make a move.
Being right (meaning you were right in the eyes of the court), but dead because they did not obey traffic laws etc...well you ultimately lose anyways.




andrewdonald1

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Re: Commuting by Motorcycle advice
« Reply #53 on: December 01, 2015, 11:43:11 PM »
I also used to have a all white KLR 650 with black hard saddle bags and trunk with a black tank bag.
Black helmet, pants etc.

For the longest time I couldn't understand why on the freeway everyone did the speed limit of 60 mph where everyone runs 70 normally when I was riding that bike.
I thought it was great as the KLR likes 60 but struggles at 70 or 75.
One day I pulled up to the house and the wife and sister-in-law was in the hot tub..
Sister in law tells wife that it looks like a cop just pulled up (her sister never saw my bike or gear before that).

So that was really funny!  I never put it together that by accident I resembled the LEO.

So maybe resembling the LEO can be a tactic..

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Re: Commuting by Motorcycle advice
« Reply #54 on: December 02, 2015, 07:06:10 AM »
I didn't click on this thread because I've been a tad busy the last few days. There's a lot of good advice, and some of which I think is overboard but fair enough.

The only thing(s) I'll add that I didn't notice (maybe I missed) are:

A. Commute off-hours if possible. Traffic can be dramatically different with an hour or so swing in either direction.

B. BAGS... you want BIG BAGS, hard, locking, waterproof bags that can hold a change of clothing, additional layers or rain gear, and anything else you want to take with you.
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Offline cee2cee

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Re: Commuting by Motorcycle advice
« Reply #55 on: December 02, 2015, 07:27:04 AM »
A. Commute off-hours if possible. Traffic can be dramatically different with an hour or so swing in either direction.

LOL there are NO off-hours in South Florida on the major roads with the possible exception of 1am to 5am!  :grin:

Offline Jim Rich

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Re: Commuting by Motorcycle advice
« Reply #56 on: December 02, 2015, 06:39:21 PM »
Anticipate stupidity.  The gentleman was correct regarding Friday drivers driving like hell on the way home.  It is a good car day.  I question the risk / benefit of motorcycle commuting on a regular basis.  I am able to work 6 am. to 3 pm which removes me from heavy (stop and go) traffic.  If I were riding in traffic jams regularly I would buy a used Corolla to commute in instead.

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