Police Norge looks spiffy

[guzziownr]

http://www.michigan.gov/documents/msp/2015_MY_Police_Vehicle_Evaluation_Test_Book_Compressed_479059_7.pdf

Top speed = 127 MPH

They test a Cal as well

[ohiorider]

An interesting report.  Thanks for posting.

Bob

[Kiwi_Roy]

 Interesting that the 1400 will stand there without the stand down.

So the beamer is the fastest, it would be interesting to know the relative cost.

The Norge does look nice.

[CPRMan]

Am i reading this right.... a Chevrolet Tahoe SUV is 4 seconds a lap faster than a Norge around the 2 mile circuit?

[Cool Runnings]

Not Provided by Manufacturer........... All that tax payer's money spent and they didn't even dyno the vehicles.

[Aaron D.]

Cool test. Don't try outrunning any police cruisers!

Yes, a Tahoe lapped faster than a Norge.

[jas67]

Am i reading this right.... a Chevrolet Tahoe SUV is 4 seconds a lap faster than a Norge around the 2 mile circuit?

Maybe they had better drivers than riders.

The Guzzis did very well on the braking tests, the Norge was better than the BMW, and the California 1400 real close.

Norge: 130.3 ft
R1200RTP: 133.3 ft
California 1400: 134.1 ft

At 126.1 ft, the Spyder beat 'em all, which I would expect, having three wheels and all.

[Aaron D.]

No, I've seen this time and again, it takes a very good rider to match a reasonable 4 wheeler on a track. And the top speed of the cars is way up there, 20+ mph over the bikes.

[jas67]

I real life, there are many situations a motorcycle is way better to get to the scene faster than either a car or a Spyder.   You can't very easily lane split with a Tahoe, or a Spyder for that matter.

[JeffOlson]

That is a good looking Norge! I wish I could get crash bars like those for my Norge. Also, the windscreen looks like the large Agostini touring screen, not the small stock pear-shaped screen.

[canuguzzi]

When reading the specs, BMW discloses almost everything. HD and MG, a lot of information not provided by manufacturer.

BMW is hungry for business.

[canuguzzi]

Why would a PD, having access to this info buy a HD over a Norge? The Norge brakes are best in class outside of the CanAm which has three tires and a lot more patch on the road. It is very close to the BMW for practical purposes in all other tests, none of the bikes are going to chase down high performance cars made these days.

The Norge seems quite a bit more manageable through traffic, the BMW looks super wide in comparison.

And if I do say so myself, the Norge is better looking than any of the others, no contest.

[Cool Runnings]

Why would a PD, having access to this info buy a HD over a Norge? The Norge brakes are best in class outside of the CanAm which has three tires and a lot more patch on the road. It is very close to the BMW for practical purposes in all other tests, none of the bikes are going to chase down high performance cars made these days.

The Norge seems quite a bit more manageable through traffic, the BMW looks super wide in comparison.

And if I do say so myself, the Norge is better looking than any of the others, no contest.

bc police get HD's for like $1 year. 

[Tom]

Some factors not evaluated.  Since all the 4 wheel vehicles involved are American, I'd say that would eliminate the non-American bikes.  Part of that could be the funding involved and the traditionalists involved in the final decision for purchase of that jurisdiction.  In other words, police Beemers in Milwaukee???  Don't think so.

Another factor which favors the HD is the factory support and after police support.  IIRC, HD will take the bikes back to the factory at no cost to the law enforcement agency.  Factory recondition and resell through their dealer network with disclosures.  They're bought by the masses.  PD Beemers, Hondas and any other brand don't sell as well.

While bikes are used for enforcement.  They have more value for parade and escort duty/PR uses.  So low speed handling is of more practical use.  Look at the jurisdictions that have horse/mounted units.

Last factor is the HD front end is stronger and used for pushing cars off the road without damage to the bike.  That was a factor cited by CHP personnel for keeping the HD's when they were switching to the Kawasaki's being better bikes.

[Roebling3]

Many years ago, when bmw was strongly promoting new, yclept oil head R model authority bikes, the CA Highway patrol and major cities), jumped in.  An operational cost analysis was done state wide in following years. BMW downtimes, compared to HD and Kawasaki, were truly scary when considering the next years budget.  Wish I knew how to re-visit those numbers; or perhaps there are current numbers? IIRC the maintenance differential (pun intended), betwixt shaft and chain drives, wet clutches vs dry were interesting.  R3~ 

[George_S]

I have a little experience here.

First off, when I was researching a bike purchase for my police dept,  a high ranking H-D exec from Milwaukee told me they will do anything to get a contract. She (yes, she) told me that when an 8-yr old boy riding in the backseat of their parent's car looks out the window and sees a motor cop, they want that cop to be on a H-D, because when that boy turns 16 they want him to think about buying a Harley.

When I got the OK to buy two motorcycles for the dept, I got a loaner BMW 1200 RT-P to use for a week. It was very capable, fast and easy to maneuver. Myself and the other officer that was going to ride (we already had personal H-D experiences) recommended the BMW. The powers that be at my PD said absolutely no way, that it would have to be Harleys. We bought them, but at the time Harley even had a $99/month lease for the police. (Obviously, that Harley exec's statement that they would do anything to get the purchase contract is reflected by that $99 deal)

BMW doesn't come near the leasing deals that Harley will do. They tout the fact that there will be a $ savings with regard to scheduled maintenance, but when something goes wrong that is beyond the scope of what the police mechanic is capable of doing, then the BMW dealer will rape the police department. I once bought an ex-California PD RT-P that came with all maintenance records. When a clutch job was needed, the dealer charged the city $4,100. But that was with the old boxer engine where you needed to split the case. The new water cooled boxer, that is no longer necessary. What really helped BMW over Harley for many years was their anti-lock brakes. There's a report floating around the Internet put out by Atlantic City PD that states when they switched from H-D to BMWs, their crashes and incidents of officer injuries declined 40%, which they attributed to the excellent brakes. 

[guzziownr]

Tom has it right, but here it is from the horse's mouth circa 2012:

http://www.mlive.com/news/index.ssf/2012/07/why_michigan_state_police_move.html

State police spokeswoman Shannon Banner said the decision to lease the German-made bikes was not easy, but in the end was informed by performance rather than place.

"It was based on what's the best tool for the troopers," she said. "We knew there would be criticism for purchasing non-American made motorcycles, and that was in the forefront of our minds. But data for two years showed that BMW outperformed Harley-Davidson."

[Tom]

Kind of the point to my post.  Performance isn't the prime factor with a department's choice. 

[Cool Runnings]

Remember these? 

[ken farr]

Remember these? 

Yes, yes I do.  Rode one for a while, actually it was a Suzuki, but basically the same tool.

Motors cost more to operate than sedans or suvs. 
Motors are not deployed for high speed enforcement or pursuit.
From what I am hearing from some friends who still do that for a living, the new H.D. machine, while
quite the P.R. tool, is truly not the right tool for the job.

kjf

[jbell]

911?  Help, I'm being chased by a high speed zebra.

[George_S]

That Norge not only looks spiffy, the performance looks great too. And twin sirens! 

[ken farr]

That Norge not only looks spiffy, the performance looks great too. And twin sirens! 

.......it'sa called stereo.....


kjf

[Arizona Wayne]

Back in the `80's I used to do appliance repair work and had a CHP customer once in the Sacramento area. Back then the CHP were using HDs w/a white round 1/2 fairing.  He told me, "if the public knew our Harleys could only do 95 mph we'd be in big trouble."   

[Tom]

Seems to me IIRC some of the CHP's be ejecting from their Kawasaki's from high speed wobbles.

[Demar]

I real life, there are many situations a motorcycle is way better to get to the scene faster than either a car or a Spyder.   You can't very easily lane split with a Tahoe, or a Spyder for that matter.

..... or a 2012 Stelvio NTX with the Trax bags on.

[Tom]

There's a number of countries that use motorcycle mounted EMT to get to accidents ahead of other first responders.  On the other side of the scale is the Paris poop patrol guys.

http://news.motorbiker.org/blogs.nsf/dx/07042003140818MIKG9A.htm

[willowstreetguzziguy]

Anyone know who makes those saddlebags?

[kirb]

You can go back and look at previous years reports..I think I posted last year's report. They tested a Cali and Norge last year as well. MSP only uses Harleys and BMW from what I can see. Most troopers will tell you they prefer the BMW (of the bikes they have access to).

I've had the Griso at Grattan...this is a challenging course to be fast at. Cars should do better here (except the Porsche G3 that recently went off the straight at 150+mph and ejected all of it's wheels in a multi flip roll-over).

Highlights:
The Moto Guzzi California 1400 developed an issue due to lean angle contact with the rear brake pedal mount (right
side). This caused the rear brake to stick. Moto Guzzi engineers adjusted the mount. After the second test rider,
engineers also adjusted the riding “mode” from Turismo (touring) to Veloce (sport). The motorcycle completed the
dynamics test without further incident.

[cruzziguzzi]

Why would a PD, having access to this info buy a HD over a Norge?

bc police get HD's for like $1 year. 

Too, they usually keep the profits on the sell-off. I remember this being a gigantic boon to Boston buying HDs one year as the profit turned on resale was huge. Also helping was that Boston PD bikes were prettier than most and exceptionally well cared for.


Todd.