The eventual final drive of choice, shaft or belt?

[canuguzzi]

Your thoughts on what the most ubiquitous final drive will be on motorcycles say 10 years out?

Neither are truly maintenance free instead they are low maintenance. HD recognized the benefits of belts some time ago and other than for the fire breathing monsters where chains rule, it seems that belts have been very successfully used and present the lowest maintenance attention of all the final drives.

[Cool Runnings]

Belts not so good for adventure touring.

[Dogwalker]

If "ubiquitous" is the key word, it can't be the belt. It has too many limitations in off-road use.

[canuguzzi]

If "ubiquitous" is the key word, it can't be the belt. It has too many limitations in off-road use.

In addition to monster bikes ala super high HP I should have added off road. I was talking about but wasn't clear, street going machines and even the ADV since many of those never even see a gravel road.

[fotoguzzi]

Belts not so good for adventure touring.

HUH?







how much does a shaft and rear drive weigh? probably at least triple the weight of a belt and sprocket.

[oldbike54]

 Looking into the future , hell , that's easy . The Improbability Drive will become ubiquitous ...

  Dusty

[tazio]

Your thoughts on what the most ubiquitous final drive will be on motorcycles say 10 years out?

10 years out? Belt.
30 years out.  Fluid.
50 years out.  Programmable Matter.

[Tom]

Direct gears if the bike become electric and no transmissions.  Motor drive direct to the rear wheel.

[LowRyter]

Chains will be most prevalent.  Shaft for touring bikes other than American V Twins which will have belts. 

[Dukedesmo]

Chains will be most prevalent.  Shaft for touring bikes other than American V Twins which will have belts.

I agree, I can't see the status quo changing in the near future...

[swordds]

I go with electric hub motors, front, rear or both.  Already used on many electrically assisted bicycles.  No belt, no gears, no shaft, no maintenance, no worries.

[mgfan]

As of December 12,2015, owning all 3 types of drive, the belt on my Victory has been the least maintenance, lightest, most reliable and easiest to replace of all of them.

[canuguzzi]

Tesla is proving that electric final drive is not as reliable as made out to be. 60k miles before failure isn't something to write home about. The good thing is that they are replaced free of charge due to the long warranty.

[bsanut]

As of December 12,2015, owning all 3 types of drive, the belt on my Victory has been the least maintenance, lightest, most reliable and easiest to replace of all of them.

You have any noise issues with the belt of your Victory?  The belt on my Cross Country is pretty audible, sometimes.  I haven't been able to adjust it out, now just living with it...

Joe

[lost]

Seems to me in 40 years bikes will have been outlawed unless someone comes up with a self driver. For street use I prefer the drive shaft but have noticed some manufacturers are phasing them out presumably to cut costs.

[jas67]

Direct gears if the bike become electric and no transmissions.  Motor drive direct to the rear wheel.

 :1:

Electric motorcycles need about a 6:1 reduction between the motor and the wheel.

I think we'll see electric scooters have their motors on the swing arm as the gas powered ones do now, but, belt-drive CVT transmission, just a gear reducer directly to the wheel.

Electric motorcycles won't have the motor direct driving the wheel, because it will be too much un-sprung weight.   Well, maybe only low powered el-cheapo entry level bikes might have the motor on the swing arm, close to the wheel.

I think onroad electric motorcycles will predominately use belt drive. 

If someone designs some very light weight high-torque, low RPM motors, then I can see them being directly in the hub of the wheels, quite possibly both front and rear.   How cool would that be for ADV and dirt bikes?

[oldbike54]

Seems to me in 40 years bikes will have been outlawed unless someone comes up with a self driver. For street use I prefer the drive shaft but have noticed some manufacturers are phasing them out presumably to cut costs.

 Hmm , folks have been saying bikes will be outlawed at some elusive point in the future for as long as there have been motorbikes , hasn't happened yet .

  Dusty

[jas67]

Chains will be most prevalent.  Shaft for touring bikes other than American V Twins which will have belts.

Belts aren't only prevalent for American V-twins, but for all V-twin cruisers regardless of country of origin -0- except for Guzzis.   

Chains will continue to be prevalent for the rest of the motorcycle market, as they are the least expensive, and easiest to package.

[guzzinka]

I know there have been enclosed chain drives, has anybody tried an "enclosed" belt?  Belt has the efficiency and maintainence advantage certainly.  Also keeps my pants up

[steveford]

On our trip to the Broken Arrow Rendezvous a couple of years back, just after the purchase of my 1400T, we were heading up LOLO pass when we came to a screeching halt for road construction.  After about 20 minutes of waiting we were sent through fresh chip seal that was just layed  down. Not even packed down, it was a huge mess all over my beautiful white touring. Tar and rocks everywhere. A few miles down the road three Harley's were stopped a long the side of the road. We stopped and asked if we could help, and they said they had tow trucks coming from quite a distance. Rocks from the chip seal were lodged between the sprocket and belt, and they weren't going anywhere. One of the gals stated that she just spent 600 dollars on new sprockets and belt. Chip seal is a way of life in the west, and probably everywhere, so you will never see me with a belt drive bike. 

[kingoffleece]

Thant's happened twice to our RoadKing in 40000 miles.  In over 150,000 no broken chains.  Never seen a shaft fail but my experience is limited with shaft drive.

600 plus to fix the belt each time.  No, thanks.

[Arizona Wayne]

My maxi-scooters have enclosed belts and have survived over new put down chipped seal no problem.  Some MCs used to have enclosed chains which were the best of both worlds and the BMW maxi scooters are both belt & enclosed chain driven.  I would be perfectly happy with an enclosed chain, shaft, or enclosed belt drive.  All are weather protected vs. exposed chain.  I don't DO dirt roads any more. 

[Aaron D.]

I've seen folks express interest in converting some belt drive bikes to chain, just for looks, so that would give chain a nod.

But gosh I like my belt drive. Besides the low maintenance, on my bike a belt change is like less than 20 minutes, done on the roadside. Belt isn't expensive, wheel does not have to come off.

Of course to get more wheel travel will require a tensioner-Roland Sands made some for his Hooligan Scouts.

I've ridden on chip seal and loose gravel with my Scout for maybe 50 miles in September. I think the belt guard is pretty good on this bike.

But maybe the coolest final drive is on my old Vespa, no belt, no chain, the wheel is mounted on the output shaft of the transmission.

[jas67]

But maybe the coolest final drive is on my old Vespa, no belt, no chain, the wheel is mounted on the output shaft of the transmission.

Was your old Vespa one of the manual transmission models?    I only ask, because automatic (CVT) automatic scooters have an enclosed belt that is part of the CVT.

[Aaron D.]

My Vespa is (very much present tense) a manual shift. My wife's is an ET4 with the CVT.

Mine by the way, despite being a 2 stroke, has been much more economical and reliable. We both just finished our 12th season on them.

[ohiorider]

I like one feature in particular about the new BMW WaterBoxer engine.  The clutch is no longer a single plate dry clutch located between the flywheel and transmission as with all boxer twins over the past 90 years.  It is now a multi-plate wet clutch that resides behind the engine front cover.  Per Kevin Cameron, the clutch is easily accessed for service by removing the front engine cover.

OTOH, the alternator is now located at the rear of the engine, so who knows the implications of that?

The new clutch location (and the fact that it is already oil-saturated) would eliminate an issue that nags at me with previous shaft drive BMWs and Guzzis ....... having to pull the swingarm and transmission to access the clutch.  I do most all of my routine bike servicing, and have pulled the R100GS tranny 2x over the past several years.  Not my favorite servicing activity.

The dealer replaced the rear main seals on two Beemers ..... the GS and a 1999 K1200RS.  Both due to failed seals.  One under warranty, the other years out of warranty.  In both instances, the clutch plate was replaced.

[Rough Edge racing]

The new clutch location (and the fact that it is already oil-saturated) would eliminate an issue that nags at me with previous shaft drive BMWs and Guzzis ....... having to pull the swingarm and transmission to access the clutch.  I do most all of my routine bike servicing, and have pulled the R100GS tranny 2x over the past several years.  Not my favorite servicing activity.

The dealer replaced the rear main on two Beemers ..... the GS and a 1999 K1200RS.  Both due to failed seals.  One under warranty, the other years out of warranty.  In both instances, the clutch plate was replaced.

 Why did you pull the tranny twice in several years? It it wasn't a lot of miles and normal expected wear I might think it's unreliable..

[oldbike54]

Why did you pull the tranny twice in several years? It it wasn't a lot of miles and normal expected wear I might think it's unreliable..

 140K miles .

  Dusty

[blackbuell]

Until recently, the vast majority of my bikes have been chain-driven. The occasional cleaning, lubrication, and adjustment never really bothered me, even on cross-country trips. I generally got about 20 K miles per chain; replacement, including sprockets was always cheap and easy (maybe $200).

However, starting with the Buells I had 15+ years ago, I have mainly owned bikes with shaft or belt drive. I now much prefer both over chain drive; less maintenance, less mess. I most like belt drive; least maintenance, nice and quiet, no mess on the rear wheel and swingarm. I have rarely had to adjust a belt on any bike, and have yet to replace a belt on any bike (true, I have never put more than 25,000 miles on any belt-driven bike). I have ridden a few Buells and my current BMW/Rotax bike many times on fresh chip-and-seal jobs, mainly on cross-country trips out west; never had an issue with rocks under the belt. I may not own another chain-driven bike again, though I doubt that this form of final drive will be supplanted by either belt or shaft on super-sport bikes, bargain bikes, or on those ubiquitous pseudo-adventure bikes in the foreseeable future.

Jon

[ohiorider]

140K miles .

  Dusty

Dusty, I must correct you!  146,500 miles. 

Rough Edge ...... if it hadn't been for the fact that BMW decided they didn't need to cut a keeper slot and install a $2 c-clip on the output shaft, the tranny may never have been removed from the bike.  With the clip, 5th gear (hypoid) pushes against the clip.  Without the clip, 5th gear exerts a side load on the front bearing on the output shaft, which the bearing isn't designed to handle.  Older  airheads had the clip ..................