So, you want to ride in the Alps? [response]

[Daniel Kalal]

Thanks for the pictures, beautiful.  Riding through the Alps has always seemed kind of like the "Holy Grail" of motorcycle trips to me. Just a dream really.

Can you share some of the logistics of the trip with us ? 

How do you make it happen, plan your routes, figure out where to stay, cross borders, etc. ?  I'm relatively new to the forum, so please forgive me if you have already discussed these things, but as someone who has only ridden in a handful of States in the US, I'm really inspired by the possibilities your pictures illustrate --

The biggest hurdle for you to overcome is the decision to go.  After that, it's easy.

I've been several times and have always rented from Agostini (in Mandello del Lario).  Once in awhile I'll run some numbers to see if owning a bike would make better sense.  It never does.

plan your route: I'm always pretty vague.  I'll have a general goal, but I don't worry much about where I'll be spending the night after each day's riding.  I never make reservations.  Whatever miles you are used to riding in the U.S., you should cut that in half--at least to begin with.  Stay off the Autostrada in Italy and all the other super-highways.  Sometimes they cannot be avoided, but otherwise...

figure out where to stay: It's not any more difficult to find a hotel than it is in the U.S.  Actually, it's probably easier since things are much closer together in most of Europe.  It's also less likely that you'll encounter a real dump of a place.  Switzerland, in particular, seems to have some strong rules about the quality of hotels.

cross borders: Things might be changing (I hope not), but border crossings in Europe are non-events.  Even into Switzerland, which is not an EU country, is easy enough.

Others:

Carry waterproof country maps with you and I would also recommend that you use a GPS at the same time.  Paper maps don't help much when you're trying to get through Zurich and the signs aren't helping.

You'll need a true chip-PIN card to get gas at the self-service stations (your American card might have a chip, but it still won't work at the pump).

Carry enough cash to cover a couple nights between ATMs.  I've had a few hotels refuse any sort of credit card (and in particular American credit cards).  Best to be prepared.

Ride your ride.  Don't feel you need to lane-split or ride like a crazy person just because others around you are doing it.  Let them go.  Ride your own ride.

Your map will show numbered roads, just as in the U.S.  However, while US-81 is clearly marked with large signs that say US-81, don't expect that in Europe.  For the most part, the numbers on the map are not to be found in person.  This makes navigation a bit of a challenge as intersections will refer only to the next town and you will not easily be able to just follow the route number (as you probably are used to doing).

Particular concerns?  Just ask.

[SED]

Great info Daniel!

My wife and I will go to Italy in the next couple of years (she used to live in Verona  ) and I've considered renting a bike over there though her stories of the aggression of the Italian drivers makes me wonder.  Your explanation and beautiful photos makes the idea seem more realistic.
Thanks!
Shawn

[tris]

....... You'll need a true chip-PIN card to get gas at the self-service stations (your American card might have a chip, but it still won't work at the pump)......

Even American Express cards issued over here aren't liked that much - something to do with the fees charged I believe

Great info Daniel!

My wife and I will go to Italy in the next couple of years (she used to live in Verona  ) and I've considered renting a bike over there though her stories of the aggression of the Italian drivers makes me wonder.  Your explanation and the photos makes the idea seem more realistic.
Thanks!
Shawn

I'm not sure I'd call Italian drivers aggressive but they are very "POSITIVE" and expect everyone to be the same and know where they're going.

I have very fond memories of hitting the Naples Tangenziale at rush hour in RH Drive Alfa GTV having driven down from the UK. 4 rows of traffic on a 3 lane road with 650 Bergmans and the like weaving at speed through the lot.

I had to take a big ol' brave pill that day 

If you want Aggressive try the M25 around London on a Friday night!!

[rob-mg]

I've been several times and have always rented from Agostini (in Mandello del Lario).  Once in awhile I'll run some numbers to see if owning a bike would make better sense.  It never does.

plan your route: I'm always pretty vague.  I'll have a general goal, but I don't worry much about where I'll be spending the night after each day's riding.  I never make reservations.  Whatever miles you are used to riding in the U.S., you should cut that in half--at least to begin with.  Stay off the Autostrada in Italy and all the other super-highways.  Sometimes they cannot be avoided, but otherwise...

cross borders: Things might be changing (I hope not), but border crossings in Europe are non-events.  Even into Switzerland, which is not an EU country, is easy enough.

Others:

Carry waterproof country maps with you and I would also recommend that you use a GPS at the same time.  Paper maps don't help much when you're trying to get through Zurich and the signs aren't helping.

You'll need a true chip-PIN card to get gas at the self-service stations (your American card might have a chip, but it still won't work at the pump).

Carry enough cash to cover a couple nights between ATMs.  I've had a few hotels refuse any sort of credit card (and in particular American credit cards).  Best to be prepared.

Your map will show numbered roads, just as in the U.S.  However, while US-81 is clearly marked with large signs that say US-81, don't expect that in Europe.  For the most part, the numbers on the map are not to be found in person.  This makes navigation a bit of a challenge as intersections will refer only to the next town and you will not easily be able to just follow the route number (as you probably are used to doing).

Actually, buying a bike can make sense. I've done it. The problem is that a non-resident, as in the U.S., can't register and insure a bike. In other words, unless you have residence status, or a local resident prepared to act as a surrogate, "running the numbers" is pointless.

The last time I tried to use a true chip and pin card at a petrol station in Italy, it didn't work. Unless things have changed, the issue is not just chip and pin, but also the card's country of issue. The odd thing is that petrol pumps were the only place where I ever ran into the problem.

Refusal to accept credit cards is common.  It has now also become common, at least in Scandinavia, to have a 3% charge added to your bill in restaurants if you use a credit card. There are lots of places that won't accept American Express, due to its higher cost to the merchant - nothing new about this.

If you're in an area for a short time, I agree that GPS is a good idea. If you're in an area for an extended time, I think that dumping GPS is one of the best things one can do. The signs are in fact logical, but it takes a few days to figure them out. My personal view of the Italian Autostrada is that anyone spending time in Italy other than as a short-term tourist will find it very useful.

Thanks for the reference to a rental place (Agostini) that I assume offers Moto Guzzi bikes. Is it good?

[Wayne Orwig]

Thanks for the reference to a rental place (Agostini) that I assume offers Moto Guzzi bikes. Is it good?

I rented a 750 Breva from them in 2007. That worked out well.

[Daniel Kalal]

...a rental place (Agostini) that I assume offers Moto Guzzi bikes.

Yes; That'd be a pretty good assumption...

[MGrego]

Daniel,

Thanks for the response and the insight into your trips.  I WILL do this myself one day !  -- In the mean time, keep us envious with your travel photographs !

[azguzzirep]

When you can, stay OFF the Autobahns. And when in Germany, come say Hi, or I can meet you someplace. Time and work permitting....

Tom

[kirkemon]

Good info from Daniel and Tom
I like to ride from Bolzano - many routes from there and a nice quaint place.
I wish I could go more, but I'm a working stiff.
You can expect to have a little rain, the weather can be a crap shoot, but always a good time.

[rob-mg]

Yes; That'd be a pretty good assumption...

I guess I was hoping that you might offer some comments on it as a rental operation.

[rob-mg]

I'd like to make a comment on GPS in Italy and about the Autostrada.

Many people, including the person who originated this discussion, suggest using GPS on the ground that Italian signage is useless. The fact is, Italians, and others who spend time there, don't have any trouble with the signage. It just works differently from how signage works in the U.S., and in some parts of Europe.  As a North American, it took me about three days to figure it out. Once I did, navigation was easy. In fact, if you refuse to be ruled by GPS, you may find that using Italian signage makes your life on Italian roads freer. I have never used GPS in Italy, and frankly don't see the point outside major cities.

The truth about the Autostrada is that some parts of it are attractive scenically, and not only significantly faster, but quite a bit safer, than alternatives.

Happy/Merry Christmas

[twhitaker]

We visited Italy in 2008 and used http://www.levolpiciccione.it/ to arrange our trip. They got us the bike through Agostini and set up our lodging, mostly in 5 star hotels.

[Daniel Kalal]

...including the person who originated this discussion, suggest using GPS on the ground that Italian signage is useless. ... refuse to be ruled by GPS...

Must be thinking of a different thread; I checked what I wrote at the top of this one and didn't say that.

on navigation: in the U.S. there are numbered "routes" that link multiple highways together to take you very long distances by simply following the large standardized route signs.  US-12 will take you halfway across the country and you'll never need to glance at a map even though you'll be on dozens of different roads along the way and multiple intersections.  In fact, it's entirely possible for multiple "routes" to be on the same bit of road.  Kellogg Avenue in Wichita is also part of Route 54 and Route 400.  This system is not used in Italy.  You'll need to know the names of the towns that your path takes you through.  Not a big deal; but, you can't just look for the road number (because chances are, it won't be there).  Italian signage is most definitely not useless, but you'd best know your local towns.

GPS: At its foundation, it's just a really good map (to any scale you want!) with a dot that shows where you are.  It is not fundamentally any different than putting your finger on a paper map.  You shouldn't be "ruled" by a displayed map any more than you should be "ruled" by a paper map.  I rarely use my GPS for turn-by-turn navigation, but it is an especially useful device to give me a high quality map to any scale I want.  I've ridden thousands of miles in Italy without it; and thousands with it.  With is easier.

[Daniel Kalal]

I was hoping that you might offer some comments on it as a rental operation.

Of course.

Their web site has the numbers (google: Agostini of Mandello).  It's quite quick, and I've found them to be very accommodating.  Most rent just a day or less, and you can be in and out pretty quickly without much paperwork to fuss with.  The bikes are new, so come with roadside protection, which is more comprehensive than what's offered in the U.S.  Especially if you turn north from the shop to follow the lake, the shop is in a good location to begin your ride.  You might feel a bit of a fish-out-of-water the first several miles, so running up the (more sedate) lakeside is a nice way to  get used to things.  The shop is closed just now for the holiday.  I think they open the second week of January.

[Tom]

I've only used a map.  I've used the Autostrada to make up time like in the U.S.  WFO.  Gas is more expensive than the U.S.  If you're going to gawk.  Get off of the road.  I like how they number the turns so that you know how more you have to the top of the pass.

[rob-mg]

in the U.S. there are numbered "routes" that link multiple highways together to take you very long distances by simply following the large standardized route signs.  US-12 will take you halfway across the country and you'll never need to glance at a map even though you'll be on dozens of different roads along the way and multiple intersections.  In fact, it's entirely possible for multiple "routes" to be on the same bit of road.  Kellogg Avenue in Wichita is also part of Route 54 and Route 400.  This system is not used in Italy.  You'll need to know the names of the towns that your path takes you through.  Not a big deal; but, you can't just look for the road number (because chances are, it won't be there).  Italian signage is most definitely not useless, but you'd best know your local towns.

GPS: At its foundation, it's just a really good map (to any scale you want!) with a dot that shows where you are.  It is not fundamentally any different than putting your finger on a paper map.  You shouldn't be "ruled" by a displayed map any more than you should be "ruled" by a paper map.  I rarely use my GPS for turn-by-turn navigation, but it is an especially useful device to give me a high quality map to any scale I want.  I've ridden thousands of miles in Italy without it; and thousands with it.  With is easier.

Merry Christmas and all, but in fact it is entirely possible to navigate roads in Italy using route numbers. The Italians do it all the time, which is maybe the clue that it can be done. You just need to know how to read the signs.

As for GPS, this is a question of preference. Outside cities, if you know how to read the signs, the distances are such that it is basically impossible to get lost. Best thing I did was figure out the signage and ditch the GPS.

Buon Natale

[rob-mg]

Of course.

Their web site has the numbers (google: Agostini of Mandello).  It's quite quick, and I've found them to be very accommodating.  Most rent just a day or less, and you can be in and out pretty quickly without much paperwork to fuss with.  The bikes are new, so come with roadside protection, which is more comprehensive than what's offered in the U.S.  Especially if you turn north from the shop to follow the lake, the shop is in a good location to begin your ride.  You might feel a bit of a fish-out-of-water the first several miles, so running up the (more sedate) lakeside is a nice way to  get used to things.  The shop is closed just now for the holiday.  I think they open the second week of January.

Thanks, their rates are here: http://www.agostinimandello.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=87&Itemid=68&lang=en

It's kind of workable if you want to hang around the Lake Como/Lombardy area for a couple of days, but a three week rental of a V7 Stone (1,700 Euros) is almost 20% of the cost of a new V7 II Stone (8,670 Euros).

If you plan to spend three weeks or more in Italy, I think it's worth checking out the cost of shipping your bike over, including by air. For stays of a few months, if you have a connection to an Italian resident, it's also worth looking into buying via that resident.

By the way,  there's also an agency in Switzerland that aggregates Moto Guzzi rentals from a number of sources that is also worth checking out.

[azguzzirep]

Merry Christmas and all, but in fact it is entirely possible to navigate roads in Italy using route numbers. The Italians do it all the time, which is maybe the clue that it can be done. You just need to know how to read the signs.

As for GPS, this is a question of preference. Outside cities, if you know how to read the signs, the distances are such that it is basically impossible to get lost. Best thing I did was figure out the signage and ditch the GPS.

Buon Natale

When traveling through Germany, I personally have found it better to list the names of the towns I want to go through rather than using route numbers, because not all signs state route numbers.

Also, opposite of the US signage, the farthest city/town is listed at the top and the nearest town at the bottom.

HTH,

Tom

[racasey]

1982: I was in Hope, British Columbia, Canada, on a ride with some Seattle area friends. We met two men from New Jersey also on bikes.  They told us about a trip to Europe on their motorcycles.  It lit a spark, and in 1987, a Seattle buddy air freighted our bikes into Frankfurt and rode for 17 days, flying back from Prestwick, Scotland.

Hopefully, I can light a spark in you. 

Making these trips come true is not very difficult, and frankly, not all that expensive.  Attached are two links to a series of photo books I compiled for myself and my fellow travelers.  These links will take you to the web site of a company, like many others, who simply offer a way to publish books, for myself and my fellow riders.  I an NOT trying to promote this company, nor am I trying to promote my books.  I'm trying to promote you riding a bike in Europe.

I am not fond of iron clad itineraries.  I lock in a solid m/c rental company, book lodging only for the first 2 nights (get over jet lag, before riding), and the rest of the trip is day by day. Like traveling in the USA: You are having coffee in a shop, the local cop tells you about a great m/c road nearby, or a festival nearby.  The smart traveller takes that road. Be foot-loose, you will see more, you will have a better time.  If you pack a GPS, you can readily compute the time/distance back to the bike rental place.  Be fluid!

 I do not speak any language fluently, even my native tongue is questionable to many of my friends.  We've never slept on a park bench, never gone hungry, never been robbed or threatened, and have met some wonderful people.  With today's technology, it is even easier.  You can store a dozen "canned" phrases on your phone and play them back at will. Europe is organized on the premise that travelers may not speak the language, hence "international signs" everywhere.  Wifi is everywhere, and usually free, when you buy a coffee.

Do you homework, develop you plans, ask many questions, pick a date well in advance and go.

Select <Preview>  and there are controls to take you <Full Screen>  and you can go page by page. 

Stelvio Pass, southern Germany, northern Italy.

http://www.blurb.com/bookstore/invited/4229120/5745b579946787eac8bca9bd990e37af506fac29

Pyrenees; Barcelona to the Atlantic and back thru France.

http://www.blurb.com/b/1152445-espana-2009-v2

Ciao,
Dick

[Damnyankee]

Of course.

Their web site has the numbers (google: Agostini of Mandello).  It's quite quick, and I've found them to be very accommodating.  Most rent just a day or less, and you can be in and out pretty quickly without much paperwork to fuss with.  The bikes are new, so come with roadside protection, which is more comprehensive than what's offered in the U.S.  Especially if you turn north from the shop to follow the lake, the shop is in a good location to begin your ride.  You might feel a bit of a fish-out-of-water the first several miles, so running up the (more sedate) lakeside is a nice way to  get used to things.  The shop is closed just now for the holiday.  I think they open the second week of January.

Rented a Stelvio from Agostini in 2012 for three weeks. Very accommodating and very nice people. Nicola, who I dealt with is no longer with them but I recently contacted them about seals for my Bassa and they were quick to respond. Keep in mind though, they don't rent after October and if you're planning on riding Stelvio at that time of the year, likely won't happen....snow ya know.

Italian drivers aren't excessively aggressive but as noted, they are confident, I had no trouble on the autostrada at all. The backroads are a little different, they tend not to stay on their side of the lane and in the tight corners, it could be problematic

Rest stops on the Autostrada are frequent and very nice, food, drink, bathrooms, note that some of them require you pay first for your order. Gas is easy, most stations are open 24 hours a day, they do take credit cards but you can use bancnotes, stations are both self service or full service.

Daniel offers great advice on a trip to Italy to ride and the riding is awesome. Where I live people come from all over to ride the backroads in Abruzzo. The piazza here in Barrea is jammed with bikes on the weekend, they stop to eat or get a cup of caffe' or just to take a break and shoot the breeze.

All in all, it's fun and Italians love to chat with Americans so it would be good to learn a few phrases, please, thank you, good morning etc. Do it!

[Furbo]

The biggest hurdle for you to overcome is the decision to go.  After that, it's easy.

Dan, coming from somone who's lived in Italy for 20 some years, your advice was pretty spot on.

That said, I generally make reservations...