Instalment #2... 2012 Norge Service light, bike will not start, just turns over.

[bobbyfromnc]

Here is a quick recap of part of previous thread...

 DEC 14th... Okay Ladies and Gents... I change my own fluids every 2500 at least for the first 10K is my plan and I did the 5K about 6 weeks ago. I plan on having the dealership doing the other items of service work. the little wrench symbol came on around 6k, I knew I would soon take the norge in for service. I rode yesterday with some friends and no problems with plans of one more ride today in this warm weather we are having... Bike will not start, oil level checked okay, now a big "SERVICE" Icon has appeared. Any thoughts or suggestions? I was planning this weekend as the last hurrah for the season with plans of scheduling the other service later this winter. Oh well   


#lights... Check     #Voltage... Well turns over great.    #Bike in Neutral, side stand down   #Engine turning over but no start?... Correct.   #Gauges do the sweep? Yes


check the side stand switch is clean and operating,  had this last week on my Norge,  plenty of power to starter but no start.  spayed some wd40 wound the stand out and in several times and it fired up and has been ok since.  it didnt show a service icon though

Lubed up the kick stand and lightly applied wd-40 on the switch. No Go on starting.


DEC 21st... I let the bike set over the weekend after trying everyday last week to start it and whammo Norge started up as if nary a thing transpired 9 days ago... Gone is the red triangle, no SERVICE indicator, ran smoothly. Does this inspire confidence? NO. What if I'm 300 miles from home and it does this crap again? Y'all I swear I truly like this bike, I like the brand, I wanted something different. But I am loosing peace of mind about being stranded or knocked out of riding with friends once again over some mystery problem striking. I've owned Harley's, metrics, never have I had this kind of stuff happen... there have been other issues, dealership had bike 9 weeks during part of summer and fall over oil all over the right cylinder which was fixed with Guzzi corporate involvement. As much as I do like it. I think I will probably trade over this mystery issue.

#@#@#@  SO NOW THE SAGA Continues... #@Q#@#@

Every day since the bike started I have once a day started it, no warnings no problems. But it has rained just about all week just prior to Christmas day. On the 25th I rode about 15 miles to my sisters for Christmas meal and returned home, no problem.

26th Dec, some friends and I met in Clemmons NC to go eat and ride a while.

Bike started fine, got gas, bike started fine, rode to meeting place...

Side note...
Had an interesting conversation with a guy who works on cars for a living while at Clemmons Motorcycle shop he was getting some stuff for his Harley. He was asking about my Norge. I told him about all the good stuff... Then I told him what happened prior to Christmas. He said to me, the next time this happens loosen the negative terminal of your battery, then loosen the positive and touch the cables together that will open any tripped circuits. He then said to put the positive on first then negative. It should start right up.
End Side note...

Bike started fine at meeting place rode about 45 minutes to a restaurant,  when getting ready to leave Norge would NOT start, gauges swept, Bike turns over but will not start, RED TRIANGLE, All caps SERVICE light appears as before. I said to my friends. ain't this some crap. Then I told them what that guy had said... Well I did exactly what he said and it immediately started up ran like a top, all warnings disappeared just like they did after 9 days of sitting in the garage. I figure that man saved me wrecker bill and it also tells me this could be a on board electronics issue of some kind.

What do you think? BK

[canuguzzi]

Unfortunately, it will happen again, problem is not fixed. It could have been what that guy told you or pure coincidence. It what he said was a fix, that brings up another issue, what caused the problem to start and will you have to go through this every so often?

In other words, if one or more open circuits caused the problem, what caused them? Back to square one.

Next time it happens  do pull the codes, takes almost no time at all. The codes could be crap and tell Empire State is falling over but it can't hurt to know.

[Chuck in Indiana]

I'm clueless, of course.

[Vasco DG]

You can't help someone who won't help himself.

[bobbyfromnc]

The next time it happens I will pull the codes because in previous thread I was given clear instructions on how to do so.

The battery trick that auto mechanic told me about was not intended t be a fix but a possible way not to be stranded some where. This is a learning curve for me. 

It was not my intention to be a bother to anyone. Thanks for every ones input.

[pat80flh]

I am also an auto mechanic, pulling the battery cables off and touching the cables together will discharge all the capacitors on the bike. In essence, whatever is being stored inside the ECM will be erased, including any codes. You should absolutely pull codes next time it happens, they are there for a reason, to give you a place to start diagnosis.  Even if you're not going to fix it, it'll give someone a clue. 

   We see this in cars a lot, intermittent electrical crap, it can be a real pain to track down. Even with thousands of dollars worth of test equipment, if the fault is not occurring RIGHT NOW, that equipment is useless. Very often problems are caused by poor contact inside connectors of components . A car comes in, the communication loop is open in the high speed network, car won't start. Many times just pulling the connector off and reinstalling it will fix the problem. What happens, microscopic fretting of terminals  increases resistance to the point where the circuit is open. Simply pulling off the connector and reinstalling it effectively "roughs up" the surface and reestablishes  contact. Adding a little dielectric grease helps keep fretting from returning, at least that is what GM says.

  It might not hurt , next time it happens, to pull codes, pull the connector(s) off from the indicated circuit, and reinstall, and see what happens

[56Pan]

If you pull the codes the next time it happens and they're no help sorting this out, if I were you, I'd head in this direction.

http://www.ncdoj.gov/Consumer/Automobiles/Lemon-Law.aspx

[Zoom Zoom]

"Your car may be covered by the Lemon Law if all of the following have happened:
• The problem occurs in some part of the vehicle that is covered by the manufacturer's warranty and you are within the warranty period. It does not need to be something that keeps you from being able to drive the car. For example, faulty air conditioning or peeling paint could be considered defects under the Lemon Law.
• You tell the manufacturer about the problem in writing and give them a reasonable period, but not more than 15 days, to fix it.   
• The manufacturer makes “a reasonable number of attempts” to fix the vehicle. This means that the car has been repaired for the same problem four or more times, or that it has been out of service a cumulative total of 20 or more business days during a 12 month period of the warranty.   
• The manufacturers’ efforts to fix the vehicle fail. Under the law, they must either replace your car or buy it back. You get to decide between a comparable new car and a refund.
 

It is a good idea to read your warranty to find out what kind of remedies your manufacturer might offer outside of the Lemon Law."

The above excerpt is from your link. Has the above been fulfilled? If so is it documented? If not, then this is not presently an option. Furthermore, the bike is still under warranty. Pull the codes, write them down and contact a dealer.

John Henry

[bobbyfromnc]

 Okay, Sunday 27th Dec. 15:30 was the time.

Put key in Norge, Let the sweep happen. Noticed first thing Red triangle remained on and all caps SERVICE warning appeared.

Ran a code check...  menu, code 28315

Dash... 01 through 06 with two categories... A  and  M   there was a... X in Cat M in section 01.  That was all I saw. I tried to see if there was a 07 through 09 but nothing appeared when I moved selector switch on handle bar.

ECU... 10 through 15 with a catagory of ACT... all seemed normal no X anywhere.

Okay my guru friends any one here have a clue. I don't. Thanks BK

[Chuck in Indiana]

Okay, Sunday 27th Dec. 15:30 was the time.

Put key in Norge, Let the sweep happen. Noticed first thing Red triangle remained on and all caps SERVICE warning appeared.

Ran a code check...  menu, code 28315

Dash... 01 through 06 with two categories... A  and  M   there was a... X in Cat M in section 01.  That was all I saw. I tried to see if there was a 07 through 09 but nothing appeared when I moved selector switch on handle bar.

ECU... 10 through 15 with a catagory of ACT... all seemed normal no X anywhere.

Okay my guru friends any one here have a clue. I don't. Thanks BK

I'm far from a guru on this, but I'd be taking apart the dash connector and squirting some De Oxit on it. Someone will be along shortly that knows..

[canuguzzi]

When did you purchase the bike and was it new from dealer?

If it is under warranty, make the dealer fix it. Part of the purchase price is the warranty.

[bobbyfromnc]

I purchased it as new with full warranty in March 2015. It was a demo vehicle with 1500 miles on it. Got a good deal on it.

[JeffOlson]

I purchased it as new with full warranty in March 2015. It was a demo vehicle with 1500 miles on it. Got a good deal on it.

You really need to have your dealer take care of this under warranty.

[bobbyfromnc]

You really need to have your dealer take care of this under warranty.

I have emailed them with what I found out today. I will make arrangements for them to take care of this. Thanks for all comments both here and original thread. If anyone has a clue with the data I found on code search feel free to pipe in. BK

[Zoom Zoom]

A is a currently active code. M is a code that was thrown that is currently inactive but is in memory. Sorry, I'm not certain what code equates to each number.

John Henry

[bobbyfromnc]

A is a currently active code. M is a code that was thrown that is currently inactive but is in memory. Sorry, I'm not certain what code equates to each number.

John Henry

Thanks for explaining the differences between A and M. This is a learning experience for me. BK

[blackcat]

"Here are the codes for a Breva 1100...s/b the same for the Norge:

FAULTS ECU. The dashboard receives from the central computer only actual faults
Description Error code
Error throttle valve C.C. Vcc ECU 10
Error throttle valve C.C. Gnd ECU 11
Error Engine temperature C.C. Vcc ECU 14
Error Engine temperature C.C Gnd ECU 15
Error Air temperature C.C. Vcc ECU 16
Error Air temperature C.C Gnd ECU 17
Error Low battery ECU 20
Error Lambda sensor ECU 21
Error Ignition coil 1 C.C. Vcc ECU 22
Error Ignition coil 1 C.C. Gnd ECU 23
Error Ignition coil 2 C.C. Vcc ECU 24
Error Ignition coil 2 C.C. Gnd ECU 25
Error Injector 1 C.C. Vcc. ECU 26
Error Injector 1 C.C. Gnd ECU 27
Error Injector 2 C.C. Vcc ECU 30
Error Pump relay ECU 36
Error Local Loop-back ECU 37
Error relay starter C.C. Vcc ECU 44
Error relay starter C.C. ground ECU 45
Error cannister C.C Vcc ECU 46
Error cannister C.C. ground ECU 47
Error battery high ECU 50
Error ECU general ECU 51
Error instrument panel ECU 54
Error autoadaptation Tito I ECU 55
Error vehicle speed ECU 56
Error stepper C.A. ECU 60
Error stepper C.C. Vcc ECU 61
Error stepper C.C. Ground ECU 62
Error unknown ECU 00

DASHBOARD ERRORS
In this mode a table lists eventual mistakes of the immobiliser and its connected sensors.
The error codes are explained as follows:


Immobiliser fault: key code read but not recognised DSB 01
Immobiliser fault: key code not read
(key not present or transponder broken) DSB 02
Immobiliser fault: Antenna broken (open or short-circuit) DSB 03
Immobiliser fault: internal controller fault DSB 04
Fuel sensor fault DSB 05
Air temperature sensor fault DSB 06
Oil sensor fault DSB 07
Oil pressure fault DSB 08"

[bobbyfromnc]

Good info, thanks. BK