Single most significant safety advance in the last decade of M/C?

[bad Chad]

What is your opinion?  And perhaps the 10 frame is a bit constrictive, as I'm sure a number of you will site ABS, which has been around much longer, but, and this is significant, it is not going big time main stream in 2016.  Also, much more advanced rubber compounds for tires, (they get my vote), along with far better breaking components.  Yet there are many more, ride by wire, traction control, air bags, the list goes on and on, not to mention gear etc.

Any way back to my original question, for me, it's tires!

[lucian]

I'm going with traction control as it has saved my arse more than once . I never even knew it had been intervening until  I shut it off one day. I would imagine a lot of squids are still with us because of it. 

[Gliderjohn]

I have an 8V Norge and my other and long termed owned Guzzi is a T-3. So talking almost a 40 year difference. Don't get me wrong the T-3 is a very enjoyable and fun bike in many ways but when I get back on it after riding the Norge T-3 is almost scary for a few miles anyway.
Brakes are from another planet and I have steel lines on the T-3. The brakes on the Norge are so much stronger and easy to use well, not even counting ABS.
If you push the T-3 too hard turning at speed, flex can get your attention. The suspension in other ways is not nearly as secure feeling (I use Ikons). Remembering what tires were like years ago I also have to agree they have been one of the biggest advancements and have probably got some of us out of more trouble than we knew we were in. The overall performance of the Norge suspension is fantastic in comparison and much more secure feeling. Wet weather tire performance has been greatly improved. Computer/fly by wire is very much a love/hate relationship IMHO until long term reliability is further established. My 2.5 cents worth for the evening.
GliderJohn

[Chuck in Indiana]

Tars.

[Aaron D.]

I'm with Chuck. Tears are amazing and everything else pales.

I mean Tars.

[canuguzzi]

ABS, good tires and brakes have all been around in the last ten years. We're talking between late 2005 to date. ABS has been around for a lot longer.

If there were a true advancement it would be integration of engine performance controls. Traction control is an off shoot of engine performance control. Getting engine performance, braking and the entire performance envelop working together is a significant advancement.

You have to get a German or Japanese bike to really see it in action, or one of the better evolved Italian brands like Aprilia or MV Augusta to really see it working.

Integrated rather than added on is the biggest advancement.

[rocker59]

A Traction control is an off shoot of engine performance control. 

Traction control is an off shoot of ABS...

[canuguzzi]

Traction control is an off shoot of ABS...

Coincidentally. Traction controls moderate engine power to limit slip and moderates suspension to do the same. How does ABS affect anything when the bike is going straight and brakes are not being applied?

[rocker59]

Coincidentally. Traction controls moderate engine power to limit slip and moderates suspension to do the same. How does ABS affect anything when the bike is going straight and brakes are not being applied?

Think about the method in which the wheel slip is measured, and the electronics package that is being used to calculate the slip, and you'll have the answer  (which I've already provided you).

Without ABS, there is no Traction Control.

[rocker59]

What is your opinion?   

While I agree tires have improved, I don't think they have improved "signifcantly" enough to be the single most significant advance.

The proliferation of ABS is a contributor.  It existed prior to 2005, but now it's going to be on just about every motorcycle. 

Adding Traction Control to the ABS is my vote.  Traction control is as huge a safety advance as ABS, and didn't really exist in motorcycles 10 years ago.

[canuguzzi]

Think about the method in which the wheel slip is measured, and the electronics package that is being used to calculate the slip, and you'll have the answer  (which I've already provided you).

Without ABS, there is no Traction Control.

Yes there is. One has to do with braking, the other has to do with everything else.

Traction control started with limited slip and other moderations of everything but braking. You can indeed have traction control without ABS, they are different systems.

You're confusing stopping with going.

[rocker59]

Yes there is. One has to do with braking, the other has to do with everything else.

Traction control started with limited slip and other moderations of everything but braking. You can indeed have traction control without ABS, they are different systems.

You're confusing stopping with going.

LOL!  You need to read deeper into that Wikipedia entry you just Googled up!

[mrrick]

Bosch "Cornering ABS"  Try grabbing a handful of front brake in the middle of a turn on a wet road without it?

[canuguzzi]

LOL!  You need to read deeper into that Wikipedia entry you just Googled up!

I don't use wikipedia, apparently you're better versed with that. I guess younguns weren't around when limited slip was the hit thing to have.

Traction control can work in the absence of ABS. Do you always use your brakes on turns?

You know, not everyone thinks the sum of human knowledge resides in wikipedia or the internet.

Nevertheless, you're really confused if you think that you can't have traction control without ABS. Prove it.

[rocker59]

  you're really confused if you think that you can't have traction control without ABS. 

I never said that.  (And yes, my daily driver has V8 power, 3.73 gears, and LSD).

However, Electronic Traction Control, as it exists today, is piggybacked on ABS. 

We're talking motorycles in this thread.  Electronic Traction Control has only been applied to motorcycles which already have ABS. 

[canuguzzi]

I never said that.  (And yes, my daily driver has V8 power, 3.73 gears, and LSD).

However, Electronic Traction Control, as it exists today, is piggybacked on ABS. 

We're talking motorycles in this thread.  Electronic Traction Control has only been applied to motorcycles which already have ABS.

Not a question, they are different systems working on different parts if motorcycle performance. While traction control is put on bikes with ABS ( they for sure aren't going to remove it) they might work together but are exclusive to one another. Traction control will work in the complete absence of ABS. ABS likewise will work in the absence of traction control. In other words they are not dependant upon each other to provide their functions although they might benefit each other.

I say this because of the Wikipedia comment which was gratuitous. I didn't use it, rarely bother to look at it unless referenced by others.

[Kentktk]

I never said that.  (And yes, my daily driver has V8 power, 3.73 gears, and LSD).

However, Electronic Traction Control, as it exists today, is piggybacked on ABS. 

We're talking motorycles in this thread.  Electronic Traction Control has only been applied to motorcycles which already have ABS.

Correct !

[oldbike54]

 Yes , and the ABS and TC systems on motorbikes use the same sensors and ECU circuits .

  Dusty

[rocker59]

Not a question, they are different systems working on different parts if motorcycle performance. While traction control is put on bikes with ABS ( they for sure aren't going to remove it) they might work together but are exclusive to one another. Traction control will work in the complete absence of ABS. ABS likewise will work in the absence of traction control. In other words they are not dependant upon each other to provide their functions although they might benefit each other.

How is wheelspin measured on the Electronic Traction Control systems? 

What is being used to process the wheelspin information?

[canuguzzi]

For goodness sake
rac�tion  (trăk′shən)
n.
1.
a. The act of drawing or pulling, especially the drawing of a vehicle or load over a surface by motor power.
b. The condition of being drawn or pulled.
2. Pulling power, as of a draft animal or engine.
3. Adhesive friction, as of a wheel on a track or a tire on a road.

ABS and traction control use SOME of the same sensors. They do different things. The origin of SOME of the data doesn't mean much.

Just what does the ABS sensor have to do with traction control if the brakes are not being used and the tires are not spinning lose of the ground but losing lateral adhesion?

Its a fail. That anyone is trying to prop up that ABS depends on or makes traction control dependant upon it is silly.

Goodness, all things in the bike that use electricity get it from the same source, doesn't mean they are the same thing or dependant on each other.They can be but must not be. Geesh.

[canuguzzi]

How is wheelspin measured on the Electronic Traction Control systems? 

What is being used to process the wheelspin information?

You're barking down a dark alley. Is a wheel spinning when it slides laterally?

Maybe there is too much spinning going on where you are.

[canuguzzi]

Next, how ABS controls the BBQ.

[oldbike54]

 TC works basically the same way as ABS . It measures wheel speed against the speed the MC is traveling . Sorry NP , but yes the two systems use the same sensors and ECU circuitry .

  Dusty

[Arizona Wayne]

The way I see it, if you're a good enough rider, you don't need all these electronic aids to make up for your lack of competence.  A skilled rider instinctively knows what to do by feel in most conditions.  Either it comes to you automatically or you need an aid to get you thru the moment safely.

I don't need no stinkin' ABS!   The Guzzi integrated braking is all I need on most Tonti bikes.

[fotoguzzi]

[rocker59]

Just what does the ABS sensor have to do with traction control if the brakes are not being used and the tires are not spinning lose of the ground but losing lateral adhesion?
 

Traction Control of "Lateral Adhesion"?.  Tell us more.

[canuguzzi]

TC works basically the same way as ABS . It measures wheel speed against the speed the MC is traveling . Sorry NP , but yes the two systems use the same sensors and ECU circuitry .

  Dusty

Just because something uses SOME of the same sensors doesn't mean they are the same or do the same thing. You're backing up a losing horse.

There is:

ABS
Traction control
Stability control

ABS works on braking
Traction control works on going

Stability control in the integrator of both systems.

Stop making up things. A sensor can serve many master controls that do completely different things. You should have stayed out of this one.

[canuguzzi]

Traction Control of "Lateral Adhesion"?.  Tell us more.

As a moderator, you should have known better than to do what you're trying to do, get shown the door because you said things that don't mesh and then trying to dissect statements to misdirect the mess you started and got yourself into.

Go back and read what you wrote, then tried in vain to support, that ABS is traction control and that traction control came from ABS.

Next comes some proof. You have a hopeless position and anyone who looks up the difference between ABS vs Traction Control will see the big fail on your part. Then when they look up Stability Control they'll know just what silliness started with saying ABS is Traction Control.

[oldbike54]

Just because something uses SOME of the same sensors doesn't mean they are the same or do the same thing. You're backing up a losing horse.

There is:

ABS
Traction control
Stability control

ABS works on braking
Traction control works on going

Stability control in the integrator of both systems.

Stop making up things. A sensor can serve many master controls that do completely different things. You should have stayed out of this one.

 Dude you kill me . When did I say they were the same thing , What I said was they use the same systems after you claimed they didn't . AND , WTF does the old limited slip systems used in cars have to do with motorcycles . Who is making stuff up ? Plus , using insults instead of facts is a poor way to debate . Maybe you should have stayed out of this one 

  Dusty

[canuguzzi]

If you dare:
http://jalopnik.com/this-is-how-abs-esc-and-traction-control-work-513807036
http://www.l2sfbc.com/rmp/blog/stability-control-ESC-vs-traction-control
http://www.edmunds.com/car-safety/traction-control.html

Plenty more but maybe they are all wrong too.