what the hell?

[canuguzzi]

Sorry, but you can also get AGM batteries that are shipped dry. You have to follow a strict procedure to get the acid absorbed into the glass.
I have a low opinion of this style. They have been know to spill. Maybe because of poor dealer prep.

Go to the bottom of page 8 of this Yuasa manual.

http://www.yuasabatteries.com/pdfs/TechManual_2014.pdf

Sure you could order them, meant thus far have yet to find a shop that would do so. There is always a hard way to do something.

Yes, then Pete is correct, my bad, just unusual to see it done that way.

[rboe]

Problem is John that if you wait for them to fail catastrophically there may well be further engine damage and they won't cover that. Get it inspected by someone with a clue, as you saw, it's only half an hour's work.

If, as I suspect, there is damage you can take pics, go back and tip them an extra arsehole!

Pete

This. My Dealer also thought the valves were find, but had the good sense to take photo's and I advised him to submit a claim with the Mother Ship. It was approved and the work has been done. As Pete said, if you wait too long it becomes VERY expensive.

[Vasco DG]

From everything that you said, I would assume that they didn't touch anything in there.

Unfortunately this saga just seems to go from bad to worse and I have to say that at the moment I'm siding with Wayne.

Everything about it stinks. The stupid bloody quote to inspect. The fact that "No damage was apparent.". The fact that the shaved ape didn't know whether the bike was a 2VPC or a 4VPC engine, (Wouldn't this of been obvious the moment a rocker cover was removed? ). The fact that the dealer principle didn't know anything about what had been requested. The replacement battery installation being a fiasco.

It all adds up to a level of arse-punchery that beggars belief!

The whole chain of events just stinks of wallet raping by venal ignorami! No wonder Guzzi have such a poor rep if this is the standard of knowledge or service that is deemed *Acceptable*. Even five hours for what at worst would be a two hour job is just madness.

Pete

[Xlratr]

From everything that you said, I would assume that they didn't touch anything in there.

That would be my feeling too. Or even if they did, they don't know what they're looking for.
The dealer that did my conversion seems competent. I talked to him about the conversion and he seemed to know what he was talking about. After the job, I asked him how the old tappets and cams looked like and he told me they were fine. I'd asked to keep the old parts, so when I got home I opened up the cam boxes and saw the blued cam lobes and worn DLC. 
And this from a dealer who at least knew where the cams are located.

John

[Zoom Zoom]

Pete, I'm referring to AGMs, same as found in bikes like the Norge straight from the dealer. Bought more than a few, various applications. They are shipped directly from the manufacturer sealed, no provisions for adding acid. You really can't add acid to AGM batteries, the mats inside are saturated from the factory.

So is Pete. Yuasa markets an AGM battery that is shipped dry. You need to go through the procedure just like he said. Add acid, let sit, charge, THEN seal with the supplied cap. I have bought a couple of them. (For the Norge I had as well as the Stelvio.) NOT ALL AGM BATTERIES COME SHIPPED WITH ACID, but once closed up you are not supposed to open it up again. YTX20CH is the battery for the Stelvio and the '07 Norge I had. The YTX20CH-BS is still an AGM but ships dry and needs activated.

John Henry

edit: The only type I am able to locate in my area are the ones that need activated once bought. I replaced one due to age and one due to me being bone headed. I have not had one fail that was properly activated even though it was shipped dry.

[ohiorider]

In 2013, this same discussion re Yuasa batteries was taking place in a most tedious fashion on WG.  "they are agm, no they're not, if it was agm it would already be charged."  Then there was thread drift to the merits of Shori .... and from there ...........??

So I called Yuasa, and one of their product specialists was kind enough to return my call, and then follow up with this email.

Dear Bob,

To summarize our conversation on lead-acid engine starting batteries ….there are basically 2 kinds.

Conventional / Flooded:  the type with individual removable filler caps, and a vent elbow / tube.  These batteries are typically see-thru so you can see what level the acid needs to be maintained to.  Only the water evaporates. Battery acid can not evaporate. Thus, why you only have to add water back into the mix  ………. and

AGM (Maintenance-Free):  acid is Absorbed in the Glass Mat separators, and battery is sealed to the outside air.  Water never evaporates in this type of battery, thus why fluid never needs to be replenished. Furthermore the battery will be destroyed if you try.  These batteries are typically all black. They do contain acid, but they can be manufactured one of two ways by Yuasa…

#1 Dry Charged; this is where the plates are activated at the factory, but then dried. The battery is supplied with a separate metered acid pack to use when you are ready to activate the battery for use in your vehicle.  You fill it, you seal it, you charge it 100% and you are done.

The other way we supply AGM batteries is…

#2 Factory Activated; this means we fill the acid here, and seal it for you. It is ready to go when you buy it. Only caution is age. When sitting around already activated, somebody needs to make sure older product is rotated, and charged when need be, to prevent these batteries being useless when finally put in a vehicle. Some manufacturers only make Factory Activated because they do not have the ability to Dry Charge.

Neither #1 or #2 are referred to as GEL batteries, which are typically used for deep cycle applications (trolling motors and wheelchairs).

Any questions, always feel free to call us, toll-free at  866-431-4784

Alan Kohler

Technical / Product Support Specialist

Yuasa Battery Inc.

 

[guzzisteve]

From everything that you said, I would assume that they didn't touch anything in there.

+1   No pics  = not even opened up

[Chuck in Indiana]

+1   No pics  = not even opened up

Maybe they had it on the lift for 5 hours, but couldn't figure out how to get the valve covers off?  Gotta give them the benefit of a doubt..

[beetle]

Maybe they had it on the lift for 5 hours, but couldn't figure out how to get the valve covers off?  Gotta give them the benefit of a doubt..

But knew they're was nothing wrong? Must be a witch! Gather up yer pitch forks and light yer torches. Let's have ourselves a good old fashioned witch burning!

[Chuck in Indiana]

But knew they're was nothing wrong? Must be a witch! Gather up yer pitch forks and light yer torches. Let's have ourselves a good old fashioned witch burning!

Gulp, didn't mean to incite a riot, but....where's my pitchfork? I *hate* incompetent dealers/"mechanics"/ all that. It'll be the downfall of Guzzi, yet..

[jlburgess]

after much soul searching today I've decided that I no longer am a  full-time motorcyclist. I've been doing it for 32 years and they finally sucked the life out of me with this incompetence. With  the exception of a broken pinky toe on a five mile an hour tip over I have been fortunate not to break any bones in over two hundred and thirty thousand miles on 29 different motorcycles. I'm planning on selling my Dorso 750 to put some money in the bank and buy a roller tappet kit to install myself.  I'm thinking this is how bikes get stored for 20 years but maybe I will still get her out sometimes..

its not just this situation and it's nothing to do with Moto Guzzi.  I love the bike so much hence the problem when I take it in and all these problems are not being fixed,  wires are left being strewn haphazardly to the frame, the drivetrain has been out 4 times. I've had it.  basically 95% of the mechanics for motorcycles seem to be completely incompetent. 99% of the car drivers are apparently incompetent also. I've lost over 10 fellow riders from an Oregon forum this last summer due to motorcycle fatalities.

A few weeks before I took my bike into the shop I went down one of my favorite twisty roads here and came over a blind rise in the hill to find a mouth breathing moron straddling the center divider. I would have been killed instantly except I was in the  middle right side of my lane as opposed to the center or left.  I certainly would have gone through their windshield at a combined 80 mile an hour impact speed.  I already hung up my race leathers last year.  I have a great dog that wants to go have fun.  Now where's that fishing pole?   

[Vasco DG]

Sorry to hear that John.

Pete

[jlburgess]

Sorry to hear that John.

Pete

I will still be enjoying the virtual camp fire with you me thinks 

[Vasco DG]

See her PM's John.

Whip the heads off and box 'em up. I'll do the 'C' kit install and send 'em back. You can just bolt 'em back on.

Pete

[jlburgess]

I think MG will authorize rollers before I'm ready to ride again.   

[Vasco DG]

I think MG will authorize rollers before I'm ready to ride again.   

Maybe. But are you going to let Zippy the Pinhead install the kit? Run away!

Pete

[oldbike54]

Maybe. But are you going to let Zippy the Pinhead install the kit? Run away!

Pete

 Wondered what Zippy was doing now that his other career came to a halt . Hmm , wonder what the Warthog is doing ?

  Dusty

[Vasco DG]

Wonder Warthog got the gig as PM of Oz for a couple of years but got knifed.....

[Muzz]

Prepping a VLR battery takes a minimum of two hours. Better yet leave it overnight.

Pete

Ya beat me to it Pete.

The batteries I used to sell were Calcium technology types; used to keep a "standard" range on tap the whole time. Every fortnight the smart charger came out so they were always good to go. Oddballs like m/cycle batteries came over the Hill on overnight, and the wholesaler would prep them for me so they were good to go on arrival. The Yuasa's that we get here are dry charged, and come with the bottle of acid to go in.  You just have to wait.....

[Rox]

Just went to pick up my G8V from the tappet inpection.  I am not sure how a factory certified mechanic stood in front of myself and the owner of a dealership and said "When I quoted 8 hours I wasn't sure if your bike had the cam in between the cylinders or in the head so I quoted the higher one."   

How could I have sent pictures of the tappet failures to the service manager, then showed them the bike and described the failures and they are not sure if the bike is a cam in head design.
After I paid for 5 hours I went to start the bike and a big ECU FAILURE message is displayed.  I had already authorized a new battery.  Somehow I rode it in but after picking if up I now had 10.5 volts. I'm guessing a load test was performed?   The mechanic had just finished test riding it for god's sake!  He must have jump started it.  How did he think I was supposed to ride it home?  I went in to the shop again and told them the error message and his response was "how many times do I have to tell you it needs a battery?"   

 Now I went to have a drink while they prepare a battery for 45 minutes.   Considering the value of being a motorcycle rider at this point.

What dealer is this?

[Vasco DG]

John has already explained why he is unwilling to name them but read the other thread and it isn't hard to work out.

Pete

[canuguzzi]

Ya beat me to it Pete.

The batteries I used to sell were Calcium technology types; used to keep a "standard" range on tap the whole time. Every fortnight the smart charger came out so they were always good to go. Oddballs like m/cycle batteries came over the Hill on overnight, and the wholesaler would prep them for me so they were good to go on arrival. The Yuasa's that we get here are dry charged, and come with the bottle of acid to go in. You just have to wait.....

Nah, you just go elsewhere and so do other customers and when you ask for the battery the response is how many do you want? Its a battery, a commodity item like sparkplugs.

In and out in minutes, battery fully charged and because it is an AGM, designed to be installed in any orientation the specs call for.

Just have to wait, for a battery? Want me to flip over the closed sign on my way out?

[Vasco DG]

Conversely I'm surprised that with your attitude you get served anywhere more than once. I would of sacked you as a customer months ago.

Pete

[Rox]

John has already explained why he is unwilling to name them but read the other thread and it isn't hard to work out.

Pete

Meh,  not enough time in a day to research posts but from a pic or 2 he must be from around the LA area which narrows it down . The Guzzi community as we all know is a small world . I can only think of 1 dealer that would take some of their customers as idiots with high amounts of disposable income.
  Most likely the same dealer that loosened my oil filter on my triple and said I had a bad seal so they can lowball me on a trade. Don't see the big deal of putting a dealer like that on blast  . It keeps them honest  .

[Arizona Wayne]

  If it doesn't have filler holes then its probably an AGM and should be trouble free until it wears out, hopefully 5-7 years from now.



I've been buying AGM batteries the last couple years hearing what you say here and have found them to be less durable and shorter lasting than lead/acid batteries they replace.  I'd be happy to get 4 years out of them like I did with my l/a batteries but can't now.  I have 7 rigs so it doesn't take me long to find out if they're as good as they're claimed to be. If I don't keep all my rigs on trickle chargers regularly the batteries go flat, if for no other reason than the clock on the circuit boards.