Author Topic: Rick4003's T5 restoration/rebuild  (Read 39089 times)

Online Rick4003

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Re: Rick4003's T5 restoration/rebuild/caf� racer (thread renamed)
« Reply #60 on: June 10, 2016, 09:37:01 AM »
I found some more pictures from the build. Thought I might as well share them even if it is from long time ago.













The bike have come a long way from here, but there's still some jobs left before it is on the road again.

I will be returning to DK in late august, so paint should be ready there, then I just need to fix: brake hoses, a loose cable on the front brake light switch, speedometer sensor bracket and magnet, internal coating of the tank and fitting of the oil sensor when I do the oil changes. Then I should be ready to run! :grin:

I will try to make a video so you have something to watch and listen to :grin:

And final a picture of how it looked when I left for work again:


Further cosmetic things that I would like to change at some point:
mounting of the instrument, I would like to make a top yoke that have the instrument integrated in the yoke so it would sit lower down and make the bike lower visually.
New brake and clutch reservoirs.
Tuck in the headlight so it sits further in.
Alloy rear fender maybe.
Toolbox to fill out the empty space underneath the seat. Will see how it turns out. Have been playing with the idea of casting some side covers that looks similar to the V7 sport.

There are tons of other small things I would like to do, but first I would like to get it running. That's the main priority.


-Ulrik
Moto Guzzi 850 T5 (850 sport) - 1985
Moto Guzzi Ambassador - 1967
Yamaha FZR 600 - 1996 - SOLD

Online Rick4003

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Re: Rick4003's T5 restoration/rebuild/caf� racer (thread renamed)
« Reply #61 on: June 10, 2016, 09:51:22 AM »
Things I learned during this project:

Wiring:
It is a hundred times faster to make the wiring if you sit down and spend some time making a proper wiring diagram. It will be well worth your time!

Shrinkwrap is not the best solution to make a neath wiring loom, it turns very stiff after being shrinked and it is impossible to add any wires if you have forgotten one or more.
I chose the shrinkwrap because I can't stand electricians tape, one of the most sticky things you can find the universe! I think a better solution would be to use braided wiring "tubes" that can be expanded to fit extra wires, is still flexible after installing wires and is still a good looking solution. It might be possible to find a better tape than the one you can find in the local hardware stores. After many cars are made with a taped up wiring loom.

Have plenty of differently colored wires on hand when you do the loom. Especially in different wire gauges.

I don't have much more to offer at this point, will have to be when I get back and carry on with the bike. I will try to take some more pictures.

-Ulrik

Moto Guzzi 850 T5 (850 sport) - 1985
Moto Guzzi Ambassador - 1967
Yamaha FZR 600 - 1996 - SOLD

Offline Antietam Classic Cycle

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Re: Rick4003's T5 restoration/rebuild/caf� racer (thread renamed)
« Reply #62 on: June 10, 2016, 04:30:53 PM »
I used to use heat shrink tubing to bundle wiring, but the first time I installed one of Greg Bender's excellent wiring harnesses, it became apparent that I needed to "up my game". Next to Greg's nicely sheathed wiring, the heat shrink just didn't look good. So, I started buying the same type vinyl sheathing that Greg (and the Guzzi factory) uses.

http://www.cycleterminal.com/sleeve-tubing.html

 
Charlie
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Online Rick4003

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Re: Rick4003's T5 restoration/rebuild/caf� racer (thread renamed)
« Reply #63 on: June 10, 2016, 08:24:56 PM »
I used to use heat shrink tubing to bundle wiring, but the first time I installed one of Greg Bender's excellent wiring harnesses, it became apparent that I needed to "up my game". Next to Greg's nicely sheathed wiring, the heat shrink just didn't look good. So, I started buying the same type vinyl sheathing that Greg (and the Guzzi factory) uses.

http://www.cycleterminal.com/sleeve-tubing.html

Hi Charlie,

I think that's the kind of stuff I would get if I do my second bike, If I can get the frame registered that is.

It would be nice to find a european dealer for the vinyl sheathing. Worth a trip to google :grin:

-Ulrik
Moto Guzzi 850 T5 (850 sport) - 1985
Moto Guzzi Ambassador - 1967
Yamaha FZR 600 - 1996 - SOLD

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Re: Rick4003's T5 restoration/rebuild/caf� racer (thread renamed)
« Reply #63 on: June 10, 2016, 08:24:56 PM »

Offline rodekyll

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Re: Rick4003's T5 restoration/rebuild/café racer (thread renamed)
« Reply #64 on: June 10, 2016, 11:15:03 PM »
I use the non-adhesive heat shrink tubing to run my bundles through and then I don't shrink it.  It's not quite the same as the factory vinyl, but it does allow you to add/subtract/adjust/repair wires when you're building a loom and don't know exactly where they all land.  It can be easier and less expensive than the really good stuff, and still light years ahead of wrapping tape.  Also, because it's not shrunk it's flat with a nice crease.  That means you can lay it into tight spaces, massage the inner wires for relief, and fasten it to surfaces form fittingly flat instead of round.  That can be handy if you're trying to hide the wiring along the inside of the frame tubes.

$0.02

Offline johnr

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Re: Rick4003's T5 restoration/rebuild/caf� racer (thread renamed)
« Reply #65 on: June 11, 2016, 02:30:03 AM »
I use the non-adhesive heat shrink tubing to run my bundles through and then I don't shrink it.  It's not quite the same as the factory vinyl, but it does allow you to add/subtract/adjust/repair wires when you're building a loom and don't know exactly where they all land.  It can be easier and less expensive than the really good stuff, and still light years ahead of wrapping tape.  Also, because it's not shrunk it's flat with a nice crease.  That means you can lay it into tight spaces, massage the inner wires for relief, and fasten it to surfaces form fittingly flat instead of round.  That can be handy if you're trying to hide the wiring along the inside of the frame tubes.

$0.02

Excellent thinking IMHO.
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Offline Old Jock

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Re: Rick4003's T5 restoration/rebuild/caf� racer (thread renamed)
« Reply #66 on: June 11, 2016, 04:03:17 AM »
My 2 favorites for wiring sheathing





Both of these are expandable and can easily accommodate wire running into or out of the loom. Spiral wrap is stiffer and not so elegant but a lot easier to work with & easier to put on and remove

100% agree make a diagram, followed by a schedule for you wiring, run the wiring and terminate last

Just what I do

John

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Re: Rick4003's T5 restoration/rebuild/caf� racer (thread renamed)
« Reply #67 on: June 11, 2016, 05:11:54 AM »
I use the non-adhesive heat shrink tubing to run my bundles through and then I don't shrink it.  It's not quite the same as the factory vinyl, but it does allow you to add/subtract/adjust/repair wires when you're building a loom and don't know exactly where they all land.  It can be easier and less expensive than the really good stuff, and still light years ahead of wrapping tape.  Also, because it's not shrunk it's flat with a nice crease.  That means you can lay it into tight spaces, massage the inner wires for relief, and fasten it to surfaces form fittingly flat instead of round.  That can be handy if you're trying to hide the wiring along the inside of the frame tubes.

$0.02

Good thinking RK, I did wonder if it made it better with the non-adhesive heat shrink tubing even if you did shrink it. I'm thinking that it is the adhesive that makes it so stiff as it locks the wires together more or less. But not shrinking it will obviously make it more flexible still. Might consider that next time.

My 2 favorites for wiring sheathing





Both of these are expandable and can easily accommodate wire running into or out of the loom. Spiral wrap is stiffer and not so elegant but a lot easier to work with & easier to put on and remove

100% agree make a diagram, followed by a schedule for you wiring, run the wiring and terminate last

Just what I do

John

I like the top braided one quite much, I will definitely try that next time, but I can very much see the advantage of the spiral one too. Maybe the answer is just to buy all three kinds and then test with one is best on the different areas of the bike.

I think the braided one would be the one that would be easiest to wrap around corners and to hide behind frame tubes.

-Ulrik
Moto Guzzi 850 T5 (850 sport) - 1985
Moto Guzzi Ambassador - 1967
Yamaha FZR 600 - 1996 - SOLD

Online Rick4003

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Re: Rick4003's T5 restoration/rebuild/caf� racer (thread renamed)
« Reply #68 on: September 05, 2016, 02:41:22 PM »
I'm back in Denmark on a three week holiday now, so I have had some time to work on the Guzzi.

I have made a bracket for the speedo sensor. Installed the front brake lines, filled brake fluid front and rear and bleed the lines.


Front brakelines mounted.


Bracket for speedo sensor. It is a reed sensor that needs a magnet glued to the brake disk to work. I haven't mounted the magnet yet.


While the trumpets are very pretty, they offer very little protection against sucking in small children, birds, rocks and such, so I have fitted some trumpet filter socks.


Before starting up the engine I wanted to do an oil and filter change. I'm quite happy here that I don't have an external filter spacer as I found the sump full of a kind of slurry.


I cleaned out all the slurry by first scraping as much off as possible and then cleaning it up with petroleum and a toothbrush. The filter and the oil pump pickup mesh was removed and everything was cleaned underneath.


I have been trying to tune up the new carburettors to suit the engine, but have had issues with the right cylinder not firing properly on idle. When I give it a bit of throttle it picks up but doesn't run cleanly still.


I suspected the points and ignition wires to be related to the rough idle running on the right cylinder so I took the chance to install the Dyna III ignition I had bought last year.


To get the timing right I had to make up a degree wheel as the single plate flywheel fitted to the bike doesn't have the proper timing marks. I made the degree wheel by printing out a degree wheel found on google, used double stick tape to attach the paper to a piece of aluminium sheet. The aluminium sheet was rough cut on my small bandsaw and then finished up in the lathe. A little piece of TIG welding rod was used as a pointer.


Currently the tank is at the painter, so I'm using my small testing fuel tank here.

Tomorrow I will try to see if I can sort out why I'm having the rough idling on the right cylinder. I will try switching the coils around to see if this moves the problem to the left cylinder. If this doesn't work I will try cleaning out the carb and will check the float height. If some of you have some ideas on what could be wrong, any suggestions would be much welcome :grin:

edit for spelling mistakes.
-Ulrik
« Last Edit: February 07, 2017, 12:54:47 AM by Rick4003 »
Moto Guzzi 850 T5 (850 sport) - 1985
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Offline swooshdave

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Re: Rick4003's T5 restoration/rebuild/caf� racer (thread renamed)
« Reply #69 on: September 05, 2016, 03:40:33 PM »
I can't wait to see the tank when it's painted. Are you going to give us a hint at what it's going to look like?

Great job on everything so far! :thumb:
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Re: Rick4003's T5 restoration/rebuild/caf� racer (thread renamed)
« Reply #70 on: September 06, 2016, 01:56:28 AM »
Thanks,

The tank should be fininshed this week, or I hope so at least! We have a meeting for Italian vehicles on saturday, so I hope to finish the bike before that so I can join the meeting. If not I just have to get by driving the Alfa instead. I'm hoping to bring both tho.

-Ulrik

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Online Huzo

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Re: Rick4003 ruins a 850T5
« Reply #71 on: September 06, 2016, 02:21:43 AM »
Well - I don't know RK's background, but know he's bin around
the block a few times, I know you know your shit Martin, and
I know I'm not an expert so I'll stand corrected.
I'm probably just being anal and over-imagining how much of
an affect there is.
 :thumb:

Maurie.
Don't back away from your stance too readily, all my initial point was, ever was, and still is.... Why did they purposely build ANY offset at all into the BMW, they could have built it so the wheels were properly in line, but made a decision not too, remember we're talking about BMW here, not some pre world war crap heap. Your observations are sound enough to be worth consideration, the topic didn't dry up because the amount off offset was " insignificant" cos even if it was 50 mm and not 5 mm, still no one ( including me), was able to come up with anything that wasn't lame, that's why no conclusions were reached.

Online Rick4003

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Re: Rick4003's T5 restoration/rebuild/caf� racer (thread renamed)
« Reply #72 on: September 11, 2016, 10:17:01 AM »
The tank has arrived!










Next thing to do is to get some license plates for it and then get it jetted properly.

Also the engine is powerful enough to slip the clutch, so I am thinking of getting a ergal flywheel like Jacksonracing mentioned that he has on his. That would allow me to use the standard dual plate clutch.

-Ulrik
Moto Guzzi 850 T5 (850 sport) - 1985
Moto Guzzi Ambassador - 1967
Yamaha FZR 600 - 1996 - SOLD

Offline RANDM

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Re: Rick4003 ruins a 850T5
« Reply #73 on: October 07, 2016, 07:54:12 AM »
Don't back away from your stance too readily, all my initial point was, ever was, and still is.... Why did they purposely build ANY offset at all into the BMW, they could have built it so the wheels were properly in line, but made a decision not too, remember we're talking about BMW here, not some pre world war crap heap. Your observations are sound enough to be worth consideration, the topic didn't dry up because the amount off offset was " insignificant" cos even if it was 50 mm and not 5 mm, still no one ( including me), was able to come up with anything that wasn't lame, that's why no conclusions were reached.

Wasn't quite a stance Huzo, more of a reasoned supposition.
Unfortunately actual experience from experimentation trumps
Supposition anytime. There are a lot of things at play and
influencing each other and I don't know all of 'em! :grin:

Maurie.

Offline racasey

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Re: Rick4003's T5 restoration/rebuild/caf� racer (thread renamed)
« Reply #74 on: October 07, 2016, 08:48:54 AM »
Hi Charlie,

I think that's the kind of stuff I would get if I do my second bike, If I can get the frame registered that is.

It would be nice to find a european dealer for the vinyl sheathing. Worth a trip to google :grin:

-Ulrikl

There is:   http://www.vehicle-wiring-products.eu/

I've used this vendor for several decades.  Good solid supplier with stuff you can not easily find elsewhere.

Ciao,
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Offline Old Jock

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Re: Rick4003's T5 restoration/rebuild/caf� racer (thread renamed)
« Reply #75 on: October 07, 2016, 11:16:24 AM »
Just another point to compliment above, another good UK supplier is Auto Electrical Supplies.

I've used them a lot, although to be fair I am in the UK

http://www.autoelectricsupplies.co.uk/

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Re: Rick4003's T5 restoration/rebuild/caf� racer (thread renamed)
« Reply #76 on: October 07, 2016, 10:45:54 PM »
thanks for the suggestions, looks just like the shop I need for such things.

An update on the bike too, I finally got a license plate for it and was able to put around 220km on it before I had to go back to work.

I have a few issues that needs to be sorted but not too bad. Clutch master cylinder or slave cylinder is losing pressure when you hold in the clutch so that the bike will start pulling away if you hold in the clutch long enough. I suspect the slave to be the problem as this is a custom made or something like that. Have never seen one identical to it and haven't seen anywhere online where they sell them. I will take it apart and change the o-rings and generally inspect it. The master cylinder is a brembo unit so I think the changes are higher that the slave cylinder is leaking very slightly. That doesn't mean that the brembo can't be the reason for the pressure drop. But I will look at the slave cylinder first.


The bike as it looks now, I still want to pull in the headlight a bit to close up the big hole between the revcounter and the headlight. I also plan to make a new top triple tree that the revcounter fits into so it will also be mounted lower. But now the bike is on the street and I can enjoy riding it and then make new parts for it as I go along. I might change out the seat too.

-Ulrik
« Last Edit: October 07, 2016, 10:54:57 PM by Rick4003 »
Moto Guzzi 850 T5 (850 sport) - 1985
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Yamaha FZR 600 - 1996 - SOLD

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Re: Rick4003's T5 restoration/rebuild/caf� racer (thread renamed)
« Reply #77 on: October 07, 2016, 11:05:59 PM »
Another thing is that the rear link pipe between the exhaust shifted to one side causing it to leak. So have to get that fixed also. Tried to just turn it and pull it back into the correct position but that thing was stuck!

Also I would like to get some new brake fluid reservoirs. I also got a new rear brake master cylinder as the one on it now is a 15mm and you have to use excessive force to get it to brake and the pedal travel is around 10-15mm right now. So that also has to be changed.

-Ulrik   
Moto Guzzi 850 T5 (850 sport) - 1985
Moto Guzzi Ambassador - 1967
Yamaha FZR 600 - 1996 - SOLD

Offline Old Jock

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Re: Rick4003's T5 restoration/rebuild/caf� racer (thread renamed)
« Reply #78 on: October 08, 2016, 05:29:17 AM »
Moto Corse & Rizoma have some really trick reservoirs but they are pretty spendy

Lots of other cheaper options, I really like this design by Rizoma



Regarding exhausts I hate taking them off and installing, always welded together on disassembly and never seem to align properly on reassembly

I agree on your clutch diagnosis, with the cylinders, with my LM 1000 I eventually went back to cable in frustration, but that was due to a master/slave ratio mismatch that gave me a wooden clutch

Good thread really enjoying it, great work and lovely machine

John

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Re: Rick4003's T5 restoration/rebuild/caf� racer (thread renamed)
« Reply #79 on: October 08, 2016, 10:50:26 AM »
Hi Old Jock,

Thanks for the hint on the rizoma and the Moto Corse reservoirs. I do like the one you like too.

I just don't really know if I want the kind that you have posted a picture of or one of the small round ones with side outlet as this one:


On the exhaust: As I tried to get the link pipe to move with the help of a big pipe wrench after other options failed me and the pipe wrench only succeeded in making dents in the pipe but did nothing to turn it, I plan on making a stainless pipe with some lockrings that holds it in the right place. But before doing that, I will try one more attempt to get the original lafranconi pipe to work. If I can't make it work, I will make a new pipe, and then get the old link pipe out what ever it takes.

I do consider going back to the cable clutch if I can't get the hydraulic one to work. But I will take a long fight with it before I give up :grin:

Thanks for your compliments. I have enjoyed your Magni thread a lot also, very lovely machines indeed!

-Ulrik
Moto Guzzi 850 T5 (850 sport) - 1985
Moto Guzzi Ambassador - 1967
Yamaha FZR 600 - 1996 - SOLD

Offline swooshdave

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Re: Rick4003's T5 restoration/rebuild/caf� racer (thread renamed)
« Reply #80 on: October 13, 2016, 02:14:17 PM »

The bike as it looks now, I still want to pull in the headlight a bit to close up the big hole between the revcounter and the headlight.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00JN2W4P0/ref=pd_day0_263_1?ie=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=7T4J0AXEJES5TFCA6AZX

Not sure if it will pull it in or not. But worth looking at.
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Online Rick4003

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Re: Rick4003's T5 restoration/rebuild/caf� racer (thread renamed)
« Reply #81 on: October 13, 2016, 11:39:36 PM »
Hi Dave,

I don't know if they will pull the headlight in, but the problem is that I have 45mm fork tubes so there is not so many brackets available for it. I can modify the existing ones with no big troubles or make some custom ones has I have a plan to do.

-Ulrik
Moto Guzzi 850 T5 (850 sport) - 1985
Moto Guzzi Ambassador - 1967
Yamaha FZR 600 - 1996 - SOLD

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Re: Rick4003 ruins a 850T5
« Reply #82 on: October 14, 2016, 01:44:33 AM »
Rick - Thanks for sharing your build. I like the way it's turned out (even if it's not completely finished yet. What are your impressions at this point?

Why did they purposely build ANY offset at all into the BMW, they could have built it so the wheels were properly in line, but made a decision not too, remember we're talking about BMW here, not some pre world war crap heap.

As far as I know, the rear wheels on some models were offset to counteract the unbalanced weight of one muffler. With that imbalance right to left, the bike would pull to one side without the offset.

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Re: Rick4003's T5 restoration/rebuild/caf� racer (thread renamed)
« Reply #83 on: October 14, 2016, 04:44:33 AM »
Wirespokes,
Rick - Thanks for sharing your build. I like the way it's turned out (even if it's not completely finished yet. What are your impressions at this point?
Thanks, my impressions is that it is pretty damn cool! :grin: :bike-037: I have only been able to do around 200km on the bike, but it have felt very planted and I haven't noted anything on the wheel offset as far as impact on the ride. This is the only Guzzi I have ever ridden so I have no clue on how it compares to a normal 18" equipped Tonti. And as I haven't really gotten comfortable with it enough to push it during these few kilometers I don't really know how it acts under pressure. My rear tire is also brand new, so need to break that in before trying to imitate Rossi and the other guys :grin:

As far as I know, the rear wheels on some models were offset to counteract the unbalanced weight of one muffler. With that imbalance right to left, the bike would pull to one side without the offset.

Okay, haven't heard that argument before, but may very well be the case. I don't think we ever got to an agreement on the correct reason for the offset. If that is the case a lot of jap bikes should also have offset wheels. I haven't looked into it, but maybe they have too.

-Ulrik
Moto Guzzi 850 T5 (850 sport) - 1985
Moto Guzzi Ambassador - 1967
Yamaha FZR 600 - 1996 - SOLD

Offline RANDM

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Re: Rick4003's T5 restoration/rebuild/caf� racer (thread renamed)
« Reply #84 on: October 14, 2016, 07:51:45 AM »
Have to add my thanks for sharing the build too - great
Brain fodder, and congrats on an excellent priece of work
- it's a  beautiful thing.

Maurie.

Offline NCAmother

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Re: Rick4003's T5 restoration/rebuild/caf� racer (thread renamed)
« Reply #85 on: March 04, 2017, 03:57:55 PM »
The bike came out awesome!  I have a question though, I like the original cafe racer you had, I will also be running a mono shock and no lower frame rails.  Why did the original Cafe not pass inspection?  Modified frame?

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Re: Rick4003's T5 restoration/rebuild/caf� racer (thread renamed)
« Reply #86 on: March 25, 2017, 03:53:42 AM »
The bike came out awesome!  I have a question though, I like the original cafe racer you had, I will also be running a mono shock and no lower frame rails.  Why did the original Cafe not pass inspection?  Modified frame?

I actually never tried to do an inspection on the bike, but it is strictly forbidden to modify the frame in anyway in Denmark if you don't have some certificates that show that the new frame is safe to use. It is really difficult to get these papers and they are so expensive that it would be silly to spend time and money to get it. And I like the look of the original frame with twin shocks.

Mainly it was changed out to avoid a lot of bureaucracy.

Thanks for the nice reply :grin: the bike is still far from finished but it is running and with license plates now at least :)

-Ulrik
Moto Guzzi 850 T5 (850 sport) - 1985
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Yamaha FZR 600 - 1996 - SOLD

Offline NCAmother

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Re: Rick4003's T5 restoration/rebuild/caf� racer (thread renamed)
« Reply #87 on: March 29, 2017, 03:30:18 PM »
Keep it up brother!!!! From one Dane mutt to another Dane!!!

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Re: Rick4003's T5 restoration/rebuild/caf� racer (thread renamed)
« Reply #88 on: June 13, 2017, 02:19:00 AM »
Hi Ulrik
What a nice build. It must be a bit hard to work so far away from your shop and still make such nice progress. We may not be too far from each other when you're back in Denmark, I live about 10km south of Kolding.
Per

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Re: Rick4003's T5 restoration/rebuild/caf� racer (thread renamed)
« Reply #89 on: June 13, 2017, 03:39:56 AM »
Hej Per,

Thanks a lot, well it is a bit annoying to be so far away when there is so many things I still would like to do. I plan to come to Denmark next months for around six weeks or so, so there should be plenty of time to get some work done :grin:

I am located just outside Faaborg/Svendborg, so there will be around 150ish km. But again, that's just a short ride :)

-Ulrik
Moto Guzzi 850 T5 (850 sport) - 1985
Moto Guzzi Ambassador - 1967
Yamaha FZR 600 - 1996 - SOLD

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