Ideas to Make Moto Guzzi More Successful?

[bad Chad]

They haven't built anything in the last 10 years that I find attractive enough to make me spend my hard earned $$.

Ok, but I am thinking you are an outlier by the look of what you own.  The newest bike in your garage is twenty years old, why would be think you would have a pulse on what will sell?

[canuguzzi]

Be careful what you wish for. Triumph is indeed sucessful. The owner went to the Orient to see how successful  companies build motorbikes. He returned to Blighty with a fistful of dollars and a new plan. He built rugged bikes that shared many internal parts throughout the entire range. He then sold them to the Brits, Ozzies and Krauts(those who ride bikes hard) to test them for 5 years before hitting the American shores with well vetted bikes. 10 years in he started his "Classic" line of bikes, the Bonnevilles. He built them in England for 6 or 8 years, then moved production to Thailand. A lot of people are OK with that. A lot don't like it at all. Here is a recent unofficial unscientific poll on Triumphrat.net about it:

View Poll Results: Do you care if your Bonneville is made in Thailand?
I would would not (knowingly) buy a bike made in Thailand at all.      14   8.24%
I would buy a Thai made one but would prefer a UK made one even if it was more expensive.      32   18.82%
I would buy a Thai made one but would prefer a UK made one if it was the same cost.      39   22.94%
I have no problem if it was made in Thailand.      75   44.12%
I would prefer a Thailand made bike.      4   2.35%
Thailand? I thought they were made in Taiwan? Are those different?      6   3.53%
Voters: 170. You have already voted on this poll

Question: IF Guzzi found it made good business sense to seek better/cheaper Asian sources of product and labor, would it still be a "proper" Guzzi? If the bike requires the Mandello Tradition to be real does that mean things can not improve?
Many pride themselves on being resourceful enough to keep a Guzzi running. How many have thrown in the towel over a Guzzi improperly set up for sale, some niggling problems, or warranty issues? How many have we sent away from this site with the advice "If you are not willing to do ABC, you may not be one of us?"   

I fear if you want to sell bikes to the modern people today, it had better work out of the box, or be within reach of someone who can fix it.

Although everyone gets a welcome, there are probably as many people put off over that as those that buy in regardless.

[rob-mg]

Cool, but who *is* making bikes that interest you?

They haven't built anything in the last 10 years that I find attractive enough to make me spend my hard earned $$.

This the last thing I brought off Guzzi which is coming up on 10 years ago is treated by the current management as an anomaly and they'd really prefer it never existed because people keep asking about it. All the current stuff and up coming releases I have no interest in what so ever as they don't suit how I ride a motorcycle.

[jbell]

I got it, I got it!  An action, adventure TV series (think "Then Came Bronson").  Call it OMG.   Old Men on Guzzis.

Episode #1.  How come I pee in Morse code?
Episode #2.  My prostate is bigger than yours.
Episode #3.  Suspenders don't have to be red.
Episode #4.  How do you adjust the float on a throttle body?

[Murray]

Cool, but who *is* making bikes that interest you?

KTM super Duke  GT. Ducati 1200 monster/Multistrada monster has no wind protection multi is ugly, Aprilia is out because their fuel tanks are too small and I have one of their rotax powered machines and I don't think much of it, I don't think much of the local aprilia dealer either. Kawasaki H2 is on interest but I haven't looked into it recently and the local kawasaki dealer has recently closed its doors. A DB11 would be good but simply not playing in that end of the market.

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

Ok, but I am thinking you are an outlier by the look of what you own.  The newest bike in your garage is twenty years old, why would be think you would have a pulse on what will sell?

I have no illusions that I "have a pulse on what would sell", nor did I imply in any way that I do. What I wrote was in response to Norge Pilot's comment that I quoted! How you twisted that around is beyond me...

[rob-mg]

KTM super Duke  GT. Ducati 1200 monster/Multistrada monster has no wind protection multi is ugly, Aprilia is out because their fuel tanks are too small and I have one of their rotax powered machines and I don't think much of it, I don't think much of the local aprilia dealer either. Kawasaki H2 is on interest but I haven't looked into it recently and the local kawasaki dealer has recently closed its doors. A DB11 would be good but simply not playing in that end of the market.

Thanks, helps explain where you're coming from.

[kingoffleece]

I have no idea why a 175hp motorcycle would be needed for a public road, but then again it seems that the older I get the more I get confused.

[Murray]

I have no idea why a 175hp motorcycle would be needed for a public road, but then again it seems that the older I get the more I get confused.

No one really needs a 50hp bike for the road let alone 175hp, but they are fun I also ride with people that own other types of motorcycles. A lot of the lower output machines make their power and torque in the very upper slither of the rev range which for road riding is annoying to say the least. The bikes I have listed all have stonking fat midranges the final output is irrelevant to me, its how its delivered. Something Guzzi did well back in the day with the like of the original 1100 sports etc. The market has moved on Guzzi seems to be shoehorned into a corner by its corporate masters desperately trying to hang onto its past.

In order to have a wider appeal they need to move with the times IMO.

[lucydad]

Ok, may I interject an opinion formed by living overseas, specifically North Africa?  Tunisia, Libya and Egypt have a strong Mediterranean cultures imprinted by French, Italian and English imperial echoes.  I had the chance to interact with locals, and many ex-pats and many European immigrants from all over the EU. 

Here is the point:  every culture, and associated language, has its own unique value system.  Northern Italy, my friends, is not the USA.  I am far from an expert on Italian culture, but I saw just enough while traveling in Europe and living/working in Tunisia/Libya that I know they march to their own drummer. 

We can whine all we want here in Houston about losing our local dealer (MPH).  Fact is:  we are low priority for the managers in Mandello.  Same on bike designs:  they have their own expectations and plans that may, or may not intersect with "our" wants.

The good news:  there are a hell of a lot of motorcycle options out there.  Anything you want can be found, especially in a larger city.  The sheer diversity is astonishing with a big increase in beginner to mid-level bikes the past few years.  Yeah, they may not be traditional, or air cooled, but man alive, there are some amazing machines.  I waited a while to see if Guzzi would produce a 70 hp, 400 pound sport bike.  Never happened, hence I bought the long lusted after Triumph STRX 675:  and I LOVE that machine (Mary Anne, aka Hot Rod).  The refinement is astonishing and the engine even better:  broad torque, plenty of top end, and amazing brakes and handling.  Given that, I still love my V7R for the character, looks, and all around capability.

So, yeah, there you are.  And for those of you who struggle with Italian:  Little Goose was bantering with me yesterday, these conversations happen. 

Time for poodle walk, and then meet our carpenter for planning some new house storage racks, before we move into the new Villa.

[drlapo]

Build a"retro" styled V12 under 500 pounds
And I'll buy it

[MGPilot]

...Fact is:  we are low priority for the managers in Mandello.

The lack of electronic cruise control supports your point.

[keener]

I may be alone here...but here goes.
Revive bikes like the Lemans ,1000S etc.. build the big blocks up, 1100, 1200 cc motors 8 valve heads ..
add top line suspensions create a performance section to compete with the other mfg ..
Guzzi I think has the potential to be the equal and more, sell the bikes based on quality , reliability, performance and tradition .
Produce the kind of bikes that stand alone in their models but cross over somewhat.
Promote them as riders bikes , free of some rider aids but keep up with what is necessary ..
Yeah I know this may sound like a dream, but what the hell its my dream



   

[Murray]

The Cali 1400's have cruise standard fit if I recall correctly.

Revive the 1000s lemans with 8 valve head and have a performance section to compete with other manufacturers? You can have one of those two things not both. You need a lot more than simply an 8valve head, a whole new motor water cooled ohc cam with bucket shims at the very least possibly some hybrid setup with augmented electric drive. Piaggio has been experimenting with the technology with the MP3 so its not a massive stretch.

[rocker59]

My vote is for a big block retro standard.  1100-1200 cc.

Start with the Bellagio chassis.  Add V7 bodywork.

As for the engine, I'm liking the idea of an 1100cc engine by way of an 850 crank and 1400 top end.

[canuguzzi]

MG needs totally new bikes and engines, not rehashed designs. Just the way it is.

Let's face it, many MG owners are stuck in the past and until MG shakes them loose it isn't going anywhere.

Just go after 7% of the market, not the .007 who want but aren't really going to buy anyway.

[JBBenson]

Guys, having seen the new 1400 line up recently, I can say the quality is top notch and the fit and finish is excellent. They may be cruisers but they are very Italian: sleek and sexy

Doesn't matter how cool they are. They are invisible. The new V7's are "popular" here in L.A., meaning I have seen maybe 3-4 (5?) of them in the past year. And I have an eye out for them.

The main problem is that people have heard the name somewhere, but have never seen one up close. My friend's eyes lit up when I told them I got a new one. They have a cachet that that is intrinsic. They are almost mythical. That is the most valuable thing that Piaggio got in the deal.

[Groover]

Maybe Moto Guzzi needs to hire this guy for a model or two:

https://player.vimeo.com/video/140118844

http://www.inazumacafe.com/2015/09/the-big-block-by-venier.html

[rocker59]

Let's face it, many MG owners are stuck in the past and until MG shakes them loose it isn't going anywhere.

Let's face it, many owners in The USA are multiple-Guzzi owners.

You shake them off, and you lose a huge chunk of your already small sales figures.

Guzzi has to keep what it has and expand into new customer bases.

Dumping it's current enthusiastic multiple-Guzzi owners would be cutting off their nose to spite their face.

[Penderic]

What is this 'success'? Keeping those assembly lines running all the time? I guess.

What else can they be used for?

Walkers?

[ohiorider]

My vote is for a big block retro standard.  1100-1200 cc.

Start with the Bellagio chassis.  Add V7 bodywork.

As for the engine, I'm liking the idea of an 1100cc engine by way of an 850 crank and 1400 top end.

I just turned the big Seven Three.  If they're ever going to make a big block retro standard, I wish they'd hurry it along!

[Penderic]

They could assemble office furniture.

[ohiorider]

They could assemble office furniture.

I want mine in red!

[Penderic]

Ha Ha! Dont forget to add another 10 horsepower!

Varroom!

[jbell]

MG needs totally new bikes and engines, not rehashed designs. Just the way it is.

Let's face it, many MG owners are stuck in the past and until MG shakes them loose it isn't going anywhere.

Just go after 7% of the market, not the .007 who want but aren't really going to buy anyway.

Yes and no.  Guzzi needs new bikes, yes.  Shaking loose us old f*rts that have clung on all these years, no.  Though John Bloor did it your way and then came back for the faithful, Guzzi doesn't have the name recognition of Triumph to start clean sheet.  Besides, most of us won't live that long.   Or maybe, that's your plan.   

[Penderic]

Should add a pizza cutter and a corkscrew in every Moto Guzzi tool kit!


 

[keener]

Maybe Moto Guzzi needs to hire this guy for a model or two:

https://player.vimeo.com/video/140118844

http://www.inazumacafe.com/2015/09/the-big-block-by-venier.html

yep, hire him or at least as a consultant ...build bikes like that and they will come

[canuguzzi]

Yes and no.  Guzzi needs new bikes, yes.  Shaking loose us old f*rts that have clung on all these years, no.  Though John Bloor did it your way and then came back for the faithful, Guzzi doesn't have the name recognition of Triumph to start clean sheet.  Besides, most of us won't live that long.   Or maybe, that's your plan.   

Just MHO.

Actually, owners of old models are the some of the most valuable assets a company can have, they tie the company and its products to their origins and with evolved products, carry traditions and knowledge forward.

But motorcycling has undergone a radical change in the recent past, genres like sports bikes, ADVs , STs, Cruisers and Baggers have kept forward and more clearly defined from each other. Today, some of the segments are converging, like the ADV/ST markets.

Because MG is such a small company selling so few bikes, it can be difficult to make those changes while at the same time keeping close ties to history. There is an analogy, Microsoft and Apple. Putting aside the politics and natural conflicts between those who are fans of one or the other, there is no way to disregard what happened in one of the largest markets ever seen, Apple looked forward and took off, Microsoft kept catering to the past and what happened is obvious.Had Apple remained a servant to the past it would have remained a bit player. It simply told all its customers they are going forward together or see ya. Now Microsoft is doing the same thing even though the "traditionalists" are screaming. There is simply no other way to grow and the opposite isn't stagnation, it is going away slowly.

Moto Guzzi needs new blood badly. A larger something of an older something isn't going to do anything nor attract new customers. It might get some older customers to buy one last new bike from them but then that is just walking backwards instead if forwards.

Most new buyers don't care if they are the only ones within hundreds of miles to own the same bike, but the people making motorcycles care and that isn't what they want.

The CARC bikes were a huge mistake. Although I really like the Norge, its a stop gap me too bike. Swap the engine and its like every other ST made at the time. It has Italian flare and style but came with dismal support.

In the time the CARCS can out and adding in their development, MG could have made the leap to a combined liquid/air cooled  engine ready for the future while jump starting the present. Sorry but adding a huge oil coller doesn't a liquid cooled bike make, we're kidding ourselves trying to stay relevant.

Air cooling has become the "Start"" button for traditionalist. Just the way it is.

The whole shaft vs chain/belt thing and the so called complexity of liquid cooling is just like not wanting to give up bridles and horseshoes. We need to get over it, its 2016! Moto Guzzi could make one or two traditionally themed models but there is no future building them as an only model focus.

[rocker59]

The CARC bikes were a huge mistake.   

How can you say that?  Have you been following Guzzi for more than a few years?

Guzzi was at a near all-time low in sales in the 2003-2005 time frame when the CARC bikes were first being shown.

We're talking 2000-2500 units per year low, due largely to Aprilia's mismanagement and the hydraulic lifter debacle.

Production quickly ramped up to 10,000 units in 2006/2007, thanks to Piaggio and the CARC bikes.  Then the recession came.  But that wasn't the fault of the CARC bikes.  Production fell back to around 5000 units in 2008/2009 with lots of unsold 2007/2008 bikes languishing on the showroom floors.

Stelvio NTX and Norge 1200 8V have been partners with the V7 Classics in helping Guzzi recover from the recession over the past few years to production levels in the 7000-8000 units range.

The Cal 14 is coming along, but its sales have only recently began to be significant.  V7 Classics are about 50% of current production.  The CARC bikes make up a large slice of the remaining 50%.  The Cal 14 a smaller slice, but coming on strong with the new models.

In the time the CARCS can out and adding in their development, MG could have made the leap to a combined liquid/air cooled  engine ready for the future while jump starting the present. Sorry but adding a huge oil coller doesn't a liquid cooled bike make, we're kidding ourselves trying to stay relevant.
 

With the collapse of scooter sales in Italy, Aprilia had no money to sink into Guzzi in the early 2000s.  And, at Guzzi's low volumes, how could they justify such an expense?  That's why Piaggio ended up with Guzzi.  Piaggio bought its failing scooter competitor, and Guzzi just came along for the ride.  CARC was already in development at that time, the Griso having been shown in 2003.

Piaggio determined to make something of Guzzi and began pouring Euros into the facility in Mandello.  They could just as easily have shuttered it, with Guzzi suffering the same fate as Laverda...

[jbell]

Norge Pilot, agreed, agreed, agreed.  Though your Microsoft/Apple reference is out of my ken, and I have no experience with CARC bikes I agree that MG needs totally modern, new design bikes while keeping a nod to the old.  When I bought my first Guzzi ('70 Ambassador) that fact that it had only electric start was a major hurdle for me to overcome; never had a problem because of it.  With emission and noise standards coupled with fuel mileage expectations, the air cooled engine is a dinosaur waiting for the meteor strike.  What I want in a bike just isn't feasible these days and is why I haven't bought a new bike in almost 25 years.  Yes, Guzzi needs to move forward, just throw me a bone from the design department and I'll hang in there.