V7--Should I stay or should I go?

[DRL]

I've been enjoying the forum for some time now and thought it was time to jump.

My question--I fear--is pretty much "Should I have a third slice of pie?" type question. I know the answer. Still...

The situation:

I traded in my Triumph for a new V7 Stone in May of 2014. On mile 10 (yes, 10), as I was riding up the Westside Highway of Manhattan, the bike caught fire. Flames spitting out the coupling of the right exhaust pipe. Fortunately, I only lost a pair of jean to the flames and not my life. The fuel injector somehow failed and spilled gas into the pipe.

Long story cut short, after the repairs and a month of additional problems (clutch, throttle & oil) the dealership exchanged the bike for another new V7.

Jump ahead 18 months. The "new" V7 has had continue clutch issue where the cable goes slack and the bike is stuck in one gear. (I've read the other comments on the forum, so my question isn't about clutch issues.)

So after having taken the bike to the shop 8 times in 7 weeks, I hired an attorney to pursue the lemon laws.

And...I've just been offered another brand new V7II.

Initially, I was thinking, Sell it fast and look for something else come spring, but then I saw a photo of it and Damn. Questioning whether I should give the Guzzi One. More. Try.

Thoughts?

[canuguzzi]

Under the lemon law the manufacturer is required to either offer a new bike or refund the entire purchase price, including tax, license and any fees less a very small use of mileage adjustment...

YOUR choice, not theirs.

Get the money and then think it through. Time is on your side when you have the money in hand. You can then sit back and go over all of this at your leisure. If you then decide to get another V7 is will be because that is what you really wanted and not because you had to.

Besides, given the prices, you might be able to get another V7 for a lot less than you originally paid.

Take care of  :1:, not anyone else.

[guzzisteve]

One more try. Third time is a charm. The V7II is nice.     I am curious on the clutch problem, Did they find bad wear shims on back of crank?

[Chuck in Indiana]

Sounds like a "put the key in and there ya go" dealer. I'd go elsewhere, but still....

One more try. Third time is a charm. The V7II is nice.     I am curious on the clutch problem, Did they find bad wear shims on back of crank?

My guess is they would be clueless as to what you are even saying..

[Kev m]

I dunno... I LOVE my V7, but if I was let down twice, I might have moved on.

My Jackal was troublesome at times, but FUN. My Breva still has some problems but felt like a big improvement overall so I remained optimistic. My V7 has basically been bulletproof.

So I'm tempted to say maybe 3rd time's the charm.

But I'd understand if you ran away instead.


Edit - I would normally wonder if your dealer is part of the problem, but they shouldn't have had anything to do with an injector and if the clutch issue was something at the crank we baby blame them on that either.

[JeffOlson]

I'd jump for the V7 II!

[O]

...I would normally wonder if your dealer is part of the problem, but they shouldn't have had anything to do with an injector and if the clutch issue was something at the crank we baby blame them on that either.

If the OP really took the bike in 7 times in 8 weeks, the dealer is doing something wrong.  I'm assuming this is exaggeration on the OP's part, but if not, perhaps he should get his money back and try a more reputable dealer? 

DRL, where are you located?  The board can surely recommend your best option is getting a properly set up MG.

[Chuck in Indiana]

If the OP really took the bike in 7 times in 8 weeks, the dealer is doing something wrong.

My point..

[swordds]

I also love my V7II so I would go with that.

[fotoguzzi]

get the money.. Triumph still makes nice bikes.

[Kev m]

I'm kinda hoping he was exaggerating.

Thing is, if it takes longer than a test ride to go back out of adjustment, then I could see at least a couple of back and forths before even a good dealer would dig deeper.

But yeah, if it was 7-8 times then I agree with you guys.

[Chuck in Indiana]

Ok, it came from the factory with a loose hose clamp. That started the fire. It should have been caught at dealer prep.

Long story cut short, after the repairs and a month of additional problems (clutch, throttle & oil)

Hello. The clutch and throttle is just an adjustment, again should have been done at dealer prep. Oil?? How the F do they F that up??
Run away from that dealer. They're clueless. Take the money and decide if you want to give Guzzi another try *with another dealer* or not.
Welcome to WG, btw.. 

[flip]

I'd  buy a Honda..or a used Guzzi from someone on here that has their bike sorted and just wanting to move on to something else.

[rob-mg]

Under the lemon law the manufacturer is required to either offer a new bike or refund the entire purchase price, including tax, license and any fees less a very small use of mileage adjustment...

YOUR choice, not theirs.

Get the money and then think it through. Time is on your side when you have the money in hand. You can then sit back and go over all of this at your leisure. If you then decide to get another V7 is will be because that is what you really wanted and not because you had to.

Besides, given the prices, you might be able to get another V7 for a lot less than you originally paid.

Take care of  :1:, not anyone else.

It sounds like the offer of a V7II is part of a settlement negotiation rather than a result of Moto Guzzi admitting the bike is a lemon. Also, the price paid for the original V7 may or may not equal the price for a new V7II or similar 2016 bike.

If DLR purchased locally, the dealer was either Gold Coast or Brooklyn Vespa. The former is no longer a Moto Guzzi dealer. The latter has a reasonably good reputation. Meanwhile, Moto Guzzi has opened a flagship store in Manhattan that is apparently owned and operated by the company, to which warranty claims can also be taken.

Personally, I am unaware of a lot of lemon complaints - indeed any lemon complaints - about these bikes.

[Bisbonian]

Under the lemon law the manufacturer is required to either offer a new bike or refund the entire purchase price, including tax, license and any fees less a very small use of mileage adjustment...

YOUR choice, not theirs.

Get the money and then think it through. Time is on your side when you have the money in hand. You can then sit back and go over all of this at your leisure. If you then decide to get another V7 is will be because that is what you really wanted and not because you had to.

Besides, given the prices, you might be able to get another V7 for a lot less than you originally paid.

Take care of  :1:, not anyone else.

This may be true in your state but not true in all states. In Arizona when you pursue a lemon law claim the manufacturer has 3 choices, they can offer to buy your vehicle back, they can offer you a new vehicle, or they can offer to pay to a sum of money and you keep the vehicle.

Much of what is offered depends on the age of the vehicle I suspect.

[BoatDoc]

DRL - every bike is different and it may be you got a lemon. It is a tough thing to do, but if you stepped back from the fact that the bike is trying to kill you, deprive you of riding or take all your money, did you really enjoy the bike? If so, I would take the V7II. Both my wife and I have gone through the same thing. This is no exaggeration, her new G650 had 23 warrantied repairs in the first 18 thousand miles and two years (a total of over $5K in work). I kept telling her it was a piece of junk. She kept saying it was the only bike she really enjoyed riding. It now has nearly 60 thousand miles but has had only about another four or five small problems since year two.

On the other hand, my 12gs had eight small warrantied repairs in the first 50 thousand miles, then, out of warranty I've had nearly another $10K in repairs over the last 40 thousand miles, and a couple of them have tried to kill me.  Stepping back I realized that I only really enjoyed riding the bike about 60% of the time. So, time to try something else. In my case it will be a V7II.

Try to focus on the actual riding experience and not on the poor dealer experience.

But if you do decide to take the money, I have a good deal on a slightly used 12gs.....!

[Kev m]

Ok, it came from the factory with a loose hose clamp. That started the fire. It should have been caught at dealer prep. Hello. The clutch and throttle is just an adjustment, again should have been done at dealer prep. Oil?? How the F do they F that up??
Run away from that dealer. They're clueless. Take the money and decide if you want to give Guzzi another try *with another dealer* or not.
Welcome to WG, btw.. 

Fuel INTO the pipe (if the story is accurate) isn't a hose clamp.

And Steve seems to think clutch adjustment could be more than just setting it up at the throw arm or lever.

[DRL]

Under the lemon law the manufacturer is required to either offer a new bike or refund the entire purchase price, including tax, license and any fees less a very small use of mileage adjustment...

YOUR choice, not theirs.

Get the money and then think it through. Time is on your side when you have the money in hand. You can then sit back and go over all of this at your leisure. If you then decide to get another V7 is will be because that is what you really wanted and not because you had to.

Besides, given the prices, you might be able to get another V7 for a lot less than you originally paid.

Take care of  :1:, not anyone else.

Thanks. And yes. The attorney who's dealing with the old V7 said it was Guzzi's settlement offer (either a new bike or a rebuilt engine). I'd have to check with the attorney, but I'm assuming I could move forward with taking the case to court for the cash. It's all about the ROI on time.

[rob-mg]

Thanks. And yes. The attorney who's dealing with the old V7 said it was Guzzi's settlement offer (either a new bike or a rebuilt engine). I'd have to check with the attorney, but I'm assuming I could move forward with taking the case to court for the cash. It's all about the ROI on time.

This is dead simple. Yes, you could go to court, and you could also lose. Moto Guzzi has made you a very good offer. Take it. And stop talking about it on-line. Settlement discussions are supposed to be private. Your lawyer would not be happy about this thread, and consider the possibility that his/her advice, for which you are paying, might be worth more than the opinions of people on some forum who know less than your lawyer does both about the facts and the applicable law.

[canuguzzi]

Thanks. And yes. The attorney who's dealing with the old V7 said it was Guzzi's settlement offer (either a new bike or a rebuilt engine). I'd have to check with the attorney, but I'm assuming I could move forward with taking the case to court for the cash. It's all about the ROI on time.

Get more info from your attorney. One of the most important aspects of dealing with negotiations and lawyers is to know all the details before you agree to anything. There should be no question in your mind as to what your options are and what the likely outcome is.

You have documented (?) evidence of the failure to fix. Don't forget, MG wants to reduce their costs, not give you the best deal. They are also looking out for  :1: and that isn't you.

If you were to take it farther, MG is on the hook for all legal and court costs too and then it gets very expensive for them, far more than just refunding your money. Consider that.

Its in the art if the deal and their offer might be a starting point, something you should find out. Was it their best, last and final offer?

You probably spent money, expended time and other resources going back and forth that many times. Add it up, that is not a reasonal expectation or cost on your part.

You're only getting one shot at this.

Do you just want to settle or be made whole? Then consider what it cost you above and bryong the purchase price. How long have you had it? Is there a loan you've been paying interest on? Have you needed to arrange for alternate transportation while the bike was in the shop? Take time off work time and time again because they couldn't fix the bike?

What I am saying is to add it all up and then consider the offer. You will have to swallow some but you shouldn't be the one with the trap door underwear in this one.

[rob-mg]

Get more info from your attorney. One of the most important aspects of dealing with negotiations and lawyers is to know all the details before you agree to anything. There should be no question in your mind as to what your options are and what the likely outcome is.

You have documented (?) evidence of the failure to fix. Don't forget, MG wants to reduce their costs, not give you the best deal. They are also looking out for  :1: and that isn't you.

If you were to take it farther, MG is on the hook for all legal and court costs too and then it gets very expensive for them, far more than just refunding your money. Consider that.

Its in the art if the deal and their offer might be a starting point, something you should find out. Was it their best, last and final offer?

You probably spent money, expended time and other resources going back and forth that many times. Add it up, that is not a reasonal expectation or cost on your part.

You're only getting one shot at this.

Do you just want to settle or be made whole? Then consider what it cost you above and bryong the purchase price. How long have you had it? Is there a loan you've been paying interest on? Have you needed to arrange for alternate transportation while the bike was in the shop? Take time off work time and time again because they couldn't fix the bike?

What I am saying is to add it all up and then consider the offer. You will have to swallow some but you shouldn't be the one with the trap door underwear in this one.

You are the kind of client who drives lawyers crazy, and who winds up with a big bill because you turn a simple problem into a huge issue :)

If his lawyer is advising him to take the offer, the only issue that could reasonably be discussed here is whether V7 bikes, and V7IIs in particular, have a history of being lemons. They don't. Unless you have information to the contrary, there isn't more that anyone here is competent to discuss.

[Lcarlson]

I'm a lawyer. This is simple. MG has offered you a brand new V7II. That's a good deal. Take it, and then either keep it, or sell it: your choice.

[rob-mg]

I'm a lawyer. This is simple. MG has offered you a brand new V7II. That's a good deal. Take it, and then either keep it, or sell it: your choice.

Was reluctant to say it, in part because he's already got a lawyer, but I'm also a lawyer, and we are in complete agreement.

[canuguzzi]

You are the kind of client who drives lawyers crazy, and who winds up with a big bill because you turn a simple problem into a huge issue :)

If his lawyer is advising him to take the offer, the only issue that could reasonably be discussed here is whether V7 bikes, and V7IIs in particular, have a history of being lemons. They don't. Unless you have information to the contrary, there isn't more that anyone here is competent to discuss.

The OP hasn't said his lawyer advised him to do anything. If his lawyer did advise to accept it, that wasn't in the thread (maybe I missed it).

Drive the lawyer crazy? Since when is asking questions driving the lawyer crazy, it is called making informed decisions. The days of just going along because someone says so went out some time ago. People used to just do what the doctor said and didn't ask questions. Same with lawyers. If a lawyer can't handle a few questions ...

If this was all so simple, it wouldn't have happened in the first place.

[rob-mg]

The OP hasn't said his lawyer advised him to do anything. If his lawyer did advise to accept it, that wasn't in the thread (maybe I missed it).

Drive the lawyer crazy? Since when is asking questions driving the lawyer crazy, it is called making informed decisions. The days of just going along because someone says so went out some time ago. People used to just do what the doctor said and didn't ask questions. Same with lawyers. If a lawyer can't handle a few questions ...

If this was all so simple, it wouldn't have happened in the first place.

Cool. Just realize that your lawyer will be charging you his or her hourly rate to listen to, and respond to, each of your questions. We're talking about getting a 2016 V7II to replace a 2014 V7, not about compensation for allegedly botched open heart surgery.

If anything, what this is telling me is that Moto Guzzi is acting honourably.

[Wild Bill Guzzi]

Love our 2016 V7II Special with almost 5,000 miles

[Guzzistajohn]

get the money.. Triumph still makes nice bikes.

My thoughts exactly! Or build a REALLY SWEET old Guzzi.

[mjptexas]

get the money.. Triumph still makes nice bikes.

Bulletproof but boring.

[rob-mg]

OH NO , more lawyers on the forum  That does explain some things 

  Dusty

So far, the only thing that the lawyers have said is that it is dead obvious that Moto Guzzi is offering DRL a good deal. What else do the comments of lawyers in this thread explain, apart from the idea that people should keep a sense of proportion?

[SmithSwede]

I've known a lot of lawyers in my time.  My uncle was a lawyer.  Personally, it sounds like a good deal from Guzzi.   I'd take it.

Another observation.   You clearly must be intrigued or smitten with the Guzzi.  Otherwise, after what you have been through, you would not be asking our opinions and would have moved on.   

So.

Since the V7 apparently speaks to you, I'd stay at the table and get another set of cards from the Guzzi dealer.  If the new one is also sub-optimal, well, take that as a sign that maybe you and Guzzi are not meant to be. 

I love my '13 Stone to bits.   My all time favorite bike in 35 years of riding.  I haven't had serious issues, and have put about 37,000 miles on mine in 2 years.   What does that prove?  Only that there *are* good ones out there.   You are not dealing with some basic design flaw.  Perhaps you just got a bad one.  I'd try a different one--see if your luck changes.

Of course, Triumphs make cool bikes too.