Oil change hot or cold

[keener]

I change it hot , remove the drain plug /filter... let drain for 15 minutes ..install the drain plug just  half ways
 ..fire it up for 3 seconds ..and remove the drain plug again and another 1/2 + cup  of oil drains out ..
the filter housing will spit some oil out as well so keep a rag handy ..

the motor holds some oil in the galleys and lines and the last quick 3 second run pushes most of the last bit out.
Guzzi motors are better at a drain out then some others but they all retain some old oil ..

And ..no.. it doesn't hurt the engine/oil pump to do this for a few seconds , there is still a film of oil inside to provide lubrication..for such a short time .

 

 

[canuguzzi]

And for our outside viewers, stay tuned for the next oil thread where we'll discuss in detail just what the temperature threshold of hot vs warm vs cool vs cold is. That will be followed by a " what to do" when you're riding and see that your odometer just went one mile over the oil change limit. Answers to important questions like:

1. Do I keep riding or immediately turn off the engine?
2. Should I cancel my prepaid vacation rental because the distance to ride there will be  over the oil change schedule?
3. Can I just drain the oil through a sock and put it back in?

Don't click that mouse or hit that back button because the most definitive answers the engineers and manufacturers don't want you to know will be revealed.

 

[kirb]

I would leave it until you can ride it.
Take it on a nice 10 mile ride to get everything nice and hot.
Drain the oil, trans, final drive all at the same time while hot. Drop the filter at the same time. I let it sit for an hour while everything drains.
Replace filter and fluids.

YMMV. Everyone has a different way of doing basic tasks. Do what YOU want to do.

[gsf12man]

I've been changing oil cold on car, pickup, bikes and lawn tractor since Vasco DG planted the idea in my mind. Since I generally don't have to be somewhere on a given vehicle, I let 'em drain overnight or at least a few hours until no drips emerge. It's so nice, neat, and easy that way.

[Moto Fugazzi]

I've been changing oil cold on car, pickup, bikes and lawn tractor since Vasco DG planted the idea in my mind. Since I generally don't have to be somewhere on a given vehicle, I let 'em drain overnight or at least a few hours until no drips emerge. It's so nice, neat, and easy that way.

Me too. I believe Pete mentioned it was pointless to burn yourself with hot oil. Now I just remove the drain plug and filter, and let it drain overnight. If I'm really bored at that point, I crack open a beer and watch the oil drain to a slow drip. Although filling it with oil and installing a new filter in the morning is no fun with a hangover!
Ken

[oldbike54]

 Yep , Pete , Click and Clack , and I believe Kevin Cameron all agree on this .

 Dusty

[canuguzzi]

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/off-topic-discussions/250531-hot-vs-cold-oil-change-test-results-provided.html

In 2005.

Probably answered in 1995, 1985, 1975, 1965,1955 and a few decades before that.

So now you really know.

[rob-mg]

Moto Guzzi says how much oil a given engine takes.

Has anyone measured the difference, if any, between what comes out of a hot engine, warmed up engine and cold engine?

Apparently some people remove the sump during an engine oil change. Why?

Some people also fill the new oil filter before screwing it in. Why? On this issue, a BMW mechanic who appears to know what he's talking about, recently said that he does not recommend "placing unfiltered oil in an oil filter". He didn't explain why. Thoughts about this statement?

[oldbike54]

Moto Guzzi says how much oil a given engine takes.

Has anyone measured the difference, if any, between what comes out of a hot engine, warmed up engine and cold engine?

Apparently some people remove the sump during an engine oil change. Why?

Some people also fill the new oil filter before screwing it in. Why? On this issue, a BMW mechanic who appears to know what he's talking about recently said that he does not recommend "placing unfiltered oil in an oil filter". He didn't explain why. Thoughts about this statement?

 Stock big blocks have the oil filter inside the sump making sump removal necessary to change the filter . No idea why the so called BMW mechanic would think brand new oil "unfiltered" .

  Dusty

[kirb]

Some people also fill the new oil filter before screwing it in. Why? On this issue, a BMW mechanic who appears to know what he's talking about, recently said that he does not recommend "placing unfiltered oil in an oil filter". He didn't explain why. Thoughts about this statement?

I always fill the filter. I hardly ever have to top off the sump after I run it.

Again, do what you like.

[oldbike54]

Some people also fill the new oil filter before screwing it in. Why? On this issue, a BMW mechanic who appears to know what he's talking about, recently said that he does not recommend "placing unfiltered oil in an oil filter". He didn't explain why. Thoughts about this statement?

 Upon further reflection , just how does this mechanic think the lubrication system works ? The "unfiltered" oil has to go through the filter at some point , geez . Where did you read this ?

  Dusty

[rob-mg]

Upon further reflection , just how does this mechanic think the lubrication system works ? The "unfiltered" oil has to go through the filter at some point , geez . Where did you read this ?

  Dusty

I think that this guy knows what he's talking about but I was mystified by that statement. I'll have to track it down and will send you the reference tomorrow.

[PJPR01]

And for our outside viewers, stay tuned for the next oil thread where we'll discuss in detail just what the temperature threshold of hot vs warm vs cool vs cold is. That will be followed by a " what to do" when you're riding and see that your odometer just went one mile over the oil change limit. Answers to important questions like:

1. Do I keep riding or immediately turn off the engine?
2. Should I cancel my prepaid vacation rental because the distance to ride there will be  over the oil change schedule?
3. Can I just drain the oil through a sock and put it back in?

Don't click that mouse or hit that back button because the most definitive answers the engineers and manufacturers don't want you to know will be revealed.   

ROFL Pilot...you gave me a good case of the chuckles here with this one! 

[rob-mg]

And for our outside viewers, stay tuned for the next oil thread where we'll discuss in detail just what the temperature threshold of hot vs warm vs cool vs cold is. That will be followed by a " what to do" when you're riding and see that your odometer just went one mile over the oil change limit. Answers to important questions like:

1. Do I keep riding or immediately turn off the engine?
2. Should I cancel my prepaid vacation rental because the distance to ride there will be  over the oil change schedule?
3. Can I just drain the oil through a sock and put it back in?

Don't click that mouse or hit that back button because the most definitive answers the engineers and manufacturers don't want you to know will be revealed.

 

So far in this thread, to which you have contributed nothing of substance, this has happened only in your cynical imagination.

[Kev m]

Apparently some people remove the sump during an engine oil change. Why?

Because that's the only way to change the oil filter on some models. It's IN the sump, threaded downward from the top.

EDIT - ooppps Dusty had it (sorta, not all Big Blocks Dusty, geeezzz).


The BMW "Mechanic" statement is friggin hilarious! 

[sign216]

I think that this guy knows what he's talking about but I was mystified by that statement. I'll have to track it down and will send you the reference tomorrow.

Most of my bikes have just a coarse screen for a "filter."  So the precison some people use for oil changes makes me jealous.

In fact my '58  BMW R50 doesn't even have oil pump.  Uses splash lubrication like a lawn mower.  And those /2 BMW's have an excellent reputation for longevity.

Just sayin.'

[Cam3512]

I change it hot , remove the drain plug /filter... let drain for 15 minutes ..install the drain plug just  half ways
 ..fire it up for 3 seconds ..and remove the drain plug again and another 1/2 + cup  of oil drains out ..
the filter housing will spit some oil out as well so keep a rag handy ..

the motor holds some oil in the galleys and lines and the last quick 3 second run pushes most of the last bit out.
Guzzi motors are better at a drain out then some others but they all retain some old oil ..

And ..no.. it doesn't hurt the engine/oil pump to do this for a few seconds , there is still a film of oil inside to provide lubrication..for such a short time .

You're advocating running the engine (however briefly) after draining the sump??   Just when I thought I've seen/heard it all. 

[Kev m]

You're advocating running the engine (however briefly) after draining the sump??   Just when I thought I've seen/heard it all.

Never underestimate the average person's ability to fool themselves into thinking something is true.

For example:

It seems there is growing support by experienced techs that oil changes don't need to be done hot and perhaps the only real measurable benefit is faster drain time.

But at the same time it seems the vast majority (myself included) are or have been convinced there is an "advantage" in removing more contaminants that way.

And maybe there is, but does it MATTER?

So why should it surprise us that someone takes it even further that they want to pump clear the oil galleries to get EVEN MORE (of the likely insignificant leftover "contaminated" oil out?

It goes even further. Harley's being a dry sump. Some freakishly paranoid owners go so far as to do a partial oil change, start and run the motor with a quart or so of fresh oil, to pump the fresh oil into the motor, and the last of the contaminated oil into the tank for draining.

Others still use an aftermarket system called the "Scavenger" to do the same:

http://roguechopper.com/



This despite evidence from owners that have seen 100k+ on their stock motors without using such a system or method.

But it makes em feel warm and fuzzy.

It's the same reason that so many people ignore the extended maintenance intervals that have proven (through oil analysis) to not be an issue.

Our Jeeps have oil life monitors and a recommended normal interval of 10k, but some owners still change it at 5k (despite not meeting severe service requirements and their oil life monitor still showing 50% left) because they feel warm and fuzzy and believe they are doing something better for the motor.

The same thing is true with people who run 93 octane in a motor spec'd for 89 or 91. They think that "better is better" when truthfully they're likely creating additional emissions and carbon deposits.

And once these things are ingrained in them it's hard to change their minds.

I guess I feel like I now know I can change oil cold, but I'll probably still do it hot, either to save the time or because it still gives me warm and fuzzies.

We're funny animals.

[Chuck in Indiana]

And ..no.. it doesn't hurt the engine/oil pump to do this for a few seconds , there is still a film of oil inside to provide lubrication..for such a short time .

I'll have to take issue with this. There is *no* oil pressure to keep metal to metal contact from happening. That thin film of oil doesn't do anything.

"placing unfiltered oil in an oil filter".

Pa leeeze. 

[Cam3512]

This is why the internet is so dangerous to those looking for advice, but are too stupid to filter out all the cockamamie "advice".

For the record,  I'm in the "drain it cold because it just don't matter and always have oil in the engine before you start it"  camp.

[Randown]

So far in this thread, to which you have contributed nothing of substance, this has happened only in your cynical imagination.

He did post the cold/hot oil analysis, empirical data directly relevant to the topic. It's an oil thread, don't take it too seriously. 

[keener]

You're advocating running the engine (however briefly) after draining the sump??   Just when I thought I've seen/heard it all.

Cam3512   can you count to three , its easy 0ne, two, three. If any engine would suffer damage within two rollovers warm with oil still on surface then its F---- to begin with .
just my opinion though

 ....and Kev.. you say never underestimate the average persons ability to fool themselves into thinking something is true ...and that is your opinion of what you do not know, in my opinion .

[Kev m]

Cam3512   can you count to three , its easy 0ne, two, three. If any engine would suffer damage within two rollovers warm with oil still on surface then its F---- to begin with .
just my opinion though

 ....and Kev  never underestimate the average persons ability to fool themselves into thinking something is true ...and that is your opinion of what you do not know, in my opinion .

I never claimed immunity to it.

But this sort of information is my career. I know I don't and won't ever know everything about it (or any subject) but I've got a pretty wide pool of knowledge and experience to draw upon.

That pool questions the tangible benefits of what you're suggesting, in the same way this thread (maybe successfully) questioned the same for changing oil hot.

[oldbike54]

Seems most "experts" don't think it necessary to warm an engine up anymore . Of course the next post will dispute this ...

 Dusty

 Edit , actually the first post LOL .

 Like I said 

  Dusty

[keener]

I never claimed immunity to it.

But this sort of information is my career. I know I don't and won't ever know everything about it (or any subject) but I've got a pretty wide pool of knowledge and experience to draw upon.

As do I ..believe it or not   

That pool questions the tangible benefits of what you're suggesting, in the same way this thread (maybe successfully) questioned the same for changing oil hot.

From my experience and mentorship what I have stated I believe to be true and I am an average person..

[ohiorider]

I try and remember to fill the new oil filter on the big block with a slug of 10w60 before installing it.  Having said that, it is impossible (to my knowledge) on airheads, and I've owned a couple of bikes in the past several years where the oil filter mounted horizontally, so of course filling it and attempting to install it would result only in pouring oil on the engine and garage floor.  So, the ones where it is impossible to fill the filter prior to starting rattle for a second or two, much like the 1200 Sport does if I don't fill the filter before starting.  Sport is at 62,000 miles ..... BMW R100GS at 146,000 after top end refresh at 128,000, and my little Kaw W650 (horizontal filter) was sold at 50,000 miles.  All running strong, rattle and all.  Sure, I'd rather these engines were designed with some way to install the filter, then fill it before starting .... don't like that rattle.

[canuguzzi]

If turning over an engine once, even thrice would damage it after the oil has been drained with the engine still warm then that supposes that an engine turned over after the sump has been filled gets some oil from the starter turning the engine enough to circukate oil after you've let it sit overnight because you didn't want your pinkies burned and changed it cold.

Come on, kinda extreme isn't it? The engine was already trash.

If you're worried about hot vs cold you are worrying or concerned about the wrong things. Its just an oil change.

[Guzzistajohn]

I've had my old CX for 27 years. I've changed the oil warm and I've changed it cool. Damn, I'm suprised it runs at all.

[George_S]

I'll have to take issue with this. There is *no* oil pressure to keep metal to metal contact from happening. That thin film of oil doesn't do anything.

Pa leeeze. 

I don't know Chuckie...  I do know there's been a few raffles at rallies, can't recall if it was Sturgis, where they run a bike at full throttle and you take a chance in the raffle with how long you predict until the engine blows. I heard about one where they got tired of waiting for it to happen so they drained the oil out and it still ran for a ridiculously long time before it quit.

[Kev m]

From my experience and mentorship what I have stated I believe to be true and I am an average person..

I'm not doubting you CAN do it.

I'm questioning the added value.

I don't know Chuckie...  I do know there's been a few raffles at rallies, can't recall if it was Sturgis, where they run a bike at full throttle and you take a chance in the raffle with how long you predict until the engine blows. I heard about one where they got tired of waiting for it to happen so they drained the oil out and it still ran for a ridiculously long time before it quit.

True, but damage was done way before it throws a rod... Though long after cranking.