Why deep discounts on the Norge?

[PJPR01]

Ducati gets huge press on every bike.  Yet, this low tech throwback comes in and knocks a big dent in the pie chart.

Isn't that interesting...so it would suggest Guzzi is perhaps on the right track then with the V9 launch...

[oldbike54]

Isn't that interesting...so it would suggest Guzzi is perhaps on the right track then with the V9 launch...

 How dare you suggest MG is doing something right ? Aren't you aware that all of the "cool" kids just want to bitch about how Guzzi isn't Honda ? Sheesh 

 Dusty

[PJPR01]

Exiting stage left here:  Hopping on the Griso for an afternoon lunch break...tail between my legs!

 

[canuguzzi]

The K1600GT is not a sport touring bike. Comparing it to the Norge is apples and oranges.

Suspension? What Moto Guzzi has world class suspension out if the box? Not the Norge. Its okay but hardly something to crow about. What is a common thread on this forum? Changing suspension. Loading different maps. Threads about how abs saved some hide. It's 2016.

Numbers talk. More people want those goodies than those who do not. All ten if us here can say we don't want this or that, it doesn't matter, many more do want them and pay for them.

If the Norge can't sell in more numbers or advance in those things that attract more buyers it won't be around.

We showed the world huh? What good is something if you can't get it anymore? Then what, we end up chasing old Norges around for the next generation of crusty critters holding onto yesteryear?

[frans belgium]

Where was MG? Not even at the shows I saw.

2 Weeks ago I went to the yearly Brussels car and bike show.  THE place to be for any potential buyer since all present brands are heavily focussed on selling. The high mass of car and bike selling in Belgium.
MG had announced the V9 roamer and bobber.  By the time I got there (one week after the start or so), both models had already been retreated.  They had been there for a few days only.  Were left to see: 1 Stornello, 1 Audace  (I think), 1 V7.  My dealer, being the most important MG dealer in Belgium, took care of the presentation, als he always does.  He desperately tried to hold the spirits high, but I felt truly sorry for him.  No Griso, no Norge, no Stelvio, not even the 2 original California models (touring and cruiser).
At the other side, just opposite of the walking path: BMW.
With the whole charade: ALL available models and even 3 or 4 types of the same model, depending on seat height and accessories. Being interested in a f 700 gs, I was able to test ALL of the available seat heights, which was a huge help in making up my mind.
Try to compete against that!  And then one wonders why MG has to give heavy discounts 

[segesta]

At the other side, just opposite of the walking path: BMW.
With the whole charade: ALL available models and even 3 or 4 types of the same model, depending on seat height and accessories. Being interested in a f 700 gs, I was able to test ALL of the available seat heights, which was a huge help in making up my mind.
Try to compete against that!  And then one wonders why MG has to give heavy discounts 

BMW sells ~15 times (110,000 bikes vs 7000 bikes?) as much as Guzzi. Just as the Alfa Romeo stand at the auto show has fewer cars than Chevrolet.

But I completely understand your point. Moto Guzzi doesn't seem to even want to succeed sometimes.

[PJPR01]

The K1600GT is not a sport touring bike. Comparing it to the Norge is apples and oranges.

Suspension? What Moto Guzzi has world class suspension out if the box? Not the Norge. Its okay but hardly something to crow about. What is a common thread on this forum? Changing suspension. Loading different maps. Threads about how abs saved some hide. It's 2016.

Both the Norge and the K1600 are Sport Grand Touring bikes, whether you want to label it as a Sport Tourer ST or Grand Tourer GT is a matter of semantics.  The Norge is the top of the line Tourer for Guzzi, and for me, it competes just fine against the specific ST of BMW or the GT of BMW.   They are both setup for Touring..so they are equivalent compares...I didn't say identical, did I?  And the GT has an electronic function for SPORT Touring! 

As far as suspension goes - who used the words world class?  The Norge suspension has worked well for 6 years, it's time to upgrade given more 2 up riding and ease of adjustment, otherwise I'd be happy to replace it with a stock OEM again.  Other models such as the V7 might require some tweaking...

ABS...any decent rider can ride just fine with or without ABS...it's not a deal killer.

You really need to quit taking people's comments and exaggerating them to the extreme, try to have a more balanced approach with a little room for ambiguity and flex, not everything has to be finely chopped into its littlest bits to pick out some piece that isn't quite precise and then jump on that like a hobo on a muffin and proclaim victory. 

[rocker59]

Isn't that interesting...so it would suggest Guzzi is perhaps on the right track then with the V9 launch...

and has been since the V7 Classics debuted seven years ago.

[rocker59]

If the Norge can't sell in more numbers or advance in those things that attract more buyers it won't be around.
 

I've got news for you:  It won't be around.

Say "buh, bye" to the Norge when the current inventories are sold...

[JeffOlson]

^ Probably the same with ALL the CARC bikes...

[Cool Runnings]

The K1600GT is not a sport touring bike. Comparing it to the Norge is apples and oranges.

Suspension? What Moto Guzzi has world class suspension out if the box? Not the Norge. Its okay but hardly something to crow about. What is a common thread on this forum? Changing suspension. Loading different maps. Threads about how abs saved some hide. It's 2016.

Numbers talk. More people want those goodies than those who do not. All ten if us here can say we don't want this or that, it doesn't matter, many more do want them and pay for them.

If the Norge can't sell in more numbers or advance in those things that attract more buyers it won't be around.

We showed the world huh? What good is something if you can't get it anymore? Then what, we end up chasing old Norges around for the next generation of crusty critters holding onto yesteryear?

I only have 100 miles on the Norge, but think it has a wonderful suspension. 

[Cool Runnings]

I've got news for you:  It won't be around.

Say "buh, bye" to the Norge when the current inventories are sold...

Still listed for 2016, I thought they were the Police Harley's in Euro land?

[JeffOlson]

The Norge DOES have good suspension, and it still appears on MG's and MG USA's websites, but it and all of the CARC bikes are likely to be EOL'ed soon. The Italian and German police will no doubt have some MG replacement (perhaps the Cal 1400 Touring?).

[Cool Runnings]

What I really like is it ain't got no anti-wheelie software. 

[canuguzzi]

The Norge suspension is OK as in adequate but certainly not up to current standards for ST bikes.

The lack of electronics or things like active suspension, traction control etc hasn't seemed to reduce the electrical gremlins so I  don't see where the issues with those features comes from.

There is already ABS, a digital display, fuel injection controlled by an ECU, the addition of better or more advanced features are really going to matter when it comes to reliability or is it that we don't think Moto Guzzi can make those features reliable?

[Cool Runnings]

The Norge suspension is OK as in adequate but certainly not up to current standards for ST bikes.

The lack of electronics or things like active suspension, traction control etc hasn't seemed to reduce the electrical gremlins so I  don't see where the issues with those features comes from.

There is already ABS, a digital display, fuel injection controlled by an ECU, the addition of better or more advanced features are really going to matter when it comes to reliability or is it that we don't think Moto Guzzi can make those features reliable?

Lack of electronics is a good thing.

[kingoffleece]

Stock set up is OK.  Wait until you ride a Norge that has RaceTech up front and Ohlins in back.

[canuguzzi]

Lack of electronics is a good thing.

Then you might want something other than a Norge, it already has them.

Wouldn't you make a distinction between electronics done right and those put on in a half-assed effort? Sure, if the approach is like the windscreen controls, the ECU maps and control layout, yeah, more of that would be adding problems.

Note that there is an ABS button to turn it off? Do that often for a majority of riding conditions?

[kingoffleece]

I think he means riding modes, electric ride height and those type of things.

The question is where does one draw the line on that stuff.  What about FI?  It's electric.

[canuguzzi]

I get it and even agree somewhat. The buying public though doesn't agree and if the rider doesn't want to use active suspension, don't use it. Same for GPS or anything else.

If the idea is to sell fewer bike than everyone else, OK, not offering current feature sets is one way to do it. But the Norge is already electronic although much of it isn't done as more than an afterthought it seems and that might be the real concern.

Like cars, some makers get it and integrate electronics to be unobtrusive and yet highly beneficial while other tack stuff on that makes driving the car a PITA.

If added features are added on ala the windscreen controls, the small blinker button which is wedged under the huge mode button, ecu maps with people run to change, yes, 100% we're better off without them. However; if done right how does traction control, the ability to adjust the suspension without unloading passenger and yourself to fanigle with adjustments make the riding experience anything but better?

If the electronic or electrics fail then it is a bad day but again, it happens anyway and from the threads they are buggers to fix or people wouldn't run here to ask how.

In the end, the Norge gets discounted not because they made too many but because MG didn't do much of anything to attract more buyers.

Can't blame low sales on people not wanting to buy Norges and thus keep the prices higher. Blame the lack of customers on a lack of marketing and the failure to stay current with what more riders want in a ST.

Ask any dealer why their Norges  sit on the showroom for two years, they'll tell you. Unless you just have to have a Guzzi you buy something else and then here are lots of choices. All of those choices have more features.

If you are going to be down power wise then you have to offer at least current feature sets to sell. The Norge isn't a naked bike where you expect ABS at most, its a ST and if every other ST has traction control, active suspension and so on and the Norge does not, people just buy something else.

No problem though, we might like the Norge as is but almost no one else does. That is why they don't sell well and why they get sold for $9999.

[JeffOlson]

^ At $9,990 and change for S&H, the Norge is an astounding deal! You could spend that much on a new 2015 Triumph Thruxton without ABS, without locking panniers, without a fairing and windscreen and heated grips and the ability to travel any distance.

In fact, I traded in my heavily modified and much loved Triumph Thruxton AND an equally loved Ducati ST2 on my first Norge.

[twowings]

There's no accounting for taste...anyone that manufactures a product for consumption knows that...you either get lucky or you get to pay rent on a warehouse full of unsold widgets...

Most who have ridden the Norge and commented publicly about it (that can be Googled) have stated what a pleasant and comfortable touring companion it is...if I can get that without all the extra complexity that bells and whistles involve, I will choose that...every time...but that's just me and a few other old buzzards who appreciate simple elegance...the world moves on!

[rocker59]

There's no accounting for taste...anyone that manufactures a product for consumption knows that...you either get lucky or you get to pay rent on a warehouse full of unsold widgets...

Most who have ridden the Norge and commented publicly about it (that can be Googled) have stated what a pleasant and comfortable touring companion it is...if I can get that without all the extra complexity that bells and whistles involve, I will choose that...every time...but that's just me and a few other old buzzards who appreciate simple elegance...the world moves on!

 :1:

[PJPR01]

but that's just me and a few other old buzzards who appreciate simple elegance...the world moves on!

  And a few not so old buzzards as well!   :1: :1:

[canuguzzi]

^ At $9,990 and change for S&H, the Norge is an astounding deal! You could spend that much on a new 2015 Triumph Thruxton without ABS, without locking panniers, without a fairing and windscreen and heated grips and the ability to travel any distance.

In fact, I traded in my heavily modified and much loved Triumph Thruxton AND an equally loved Ducati ST2 on my first Norge.

Absolutely.

The OP though, questioned the heavy discounts. Some of that comes from maybe having paid more than current prices given prior comments. It sucks when the bike you paid maybe 11 or 12k for just a price cut to under 10k but that doesn't detract from what you got unless there is buyers remorse.

Just look at what Guzzi owners other models think of the Norge. Overly complex, too much plastic, too much electronics.

The Norge wasn't pulled out of thin air, MG knew what it was making and why. There is also no doubt that in its current state, the Norge isn't a product for the future, other pressures outside of MG are seeing to that and that is the Euro regulations.

The Norge can't sustain itself in sales as a US only bike and it would be foolish for MG to do it. The whole air cooled engine issue has already been put to rest, there is no future in them other than perhaps another year or so. There is no magic bullet for the 1200.

We can like it all we want, doesn't change that they will continue to be discounted and the entire 1200 engine put out to pasture.

[PJPR01]

Since the Euro / USD rate was at 1.40 just 2 years ago, and now is around 1.10 give or take a pfennig, it makes sense that currently imported Italian bikes are cheaper now than before, that's assuming that the FX "gain" has not been pocketed by the intermediaries, or that the factory has not raised the Euro value it sold to the dealers.

If that were the case, all the newer bikes have dropped in USD price, which by default means older bikes have to be discounted by a similar percentage to stay on a par with the newer ones.

Discuss...   

[canuguzzi]

These are 2014 and 2013 bikes, imported before the currency balances had effect(?).

[PJPR01]

Then I would suspect that the MSRP may not have been updated, and it's less of a legitimate real reference price.  Many companies keep their price lists static and just offer discounts (contra revenue) as the market may dictate to generate demand, and or promo them out if they are truly not selling.  It would be interesting to see a trend of MSRP for the Norge from 2008 year over year to current and see if that changed or stayed static.

[canuguzzi]

2008: $14990
2015: $16250(?)

[PJPR01]

2008: $14990
2015: $16250(?)

Table may not come out exactly as it should, and granted my assumptions here may be full of holes as I have no idea if dealers were able to pay fewer Euros to Guzzi to import the Norge, but if this were the case, it would appear to me that MSRP in USD for the most current year is overstated and should have been decreasing over time instead of increasing given the significant drop in Euro / USD FX rate.  Of course, there is the issue of improved features, engine etc...but leaving that aside for the moment for a hypothetical exercise.  If the gap between actual sale prices vs. MSRP is widening and as a consequence discounting is perceived to be increasing vs. that artificially inflated MSRP, then a portion of it can be explained by the currency movement.    Perhaps the rest can be deduced from whether or not the Market is in a similar state now vs. 2008...I don't know for sure.
 
                                                           2008               2015   Nominal Delta
MSRP USD (10% Increase in 7 years)        15,000          16,500    10%
USD / Euro FX Rate                                     1.40             1.10   
Assumed Euro Cost also increased 10%      10,714          11,786    10%
True USD needed to cover Euro Cost         15,000          12,964     (2,036)
         
Avg. Actual Sale                                         11,250          11,000    
% of Same year MSRP                                75%              67%