Author Topic: would you trust these welds.... (Read 17315 times)

jabberwocky · « **Reply #30 on:** February 09, 2016, 08:40:30 PM »

Those are some very ugly welds to be sure. There is a lot of weld area on that big gusset, and I can't imagine it actually breaking. But damn, if I had made those welds, I would paint it up, put the tank on, and never let anyone see them, much less put them up on a forum and look for praise.

cleatusj · « **Reply #31 on:** February 09, 2016, 10:31:32 PM »

Was not looking for praise, as I know how much abuse the vehicles and bikes that I've welded on have taken and have yet to have a structural weld failure. Pretty does not mean the weld is strong.

Had I forgot how negative this forum can be at times, this thread would of damn sure reminded me.

Kentktk · « **Reply #32 on:** February 09, 2016, 10:58:23 PM »

Quote from: mtiberio on February 09, 2016, 09:07:44 AM

I have heard it said, that if you have to grind your welds after welding to make them look pretty, you are a grinder, not a welder...

I have heard same thing....lol

tazio · « **Reply #33 on:** February 10, 2016, 12:47:42 AM »

Points have been expressed regarding welds, repeatedly.

How about extra points for laying his work/passion out there for all to judge..

~cleatusj, have missed your stories around the campfire.
Fearless, dude. Keep rockin' those creative juices!

p.s. "dirt floor build" ~loved it.

Doppelgaenger · « **Reply #34 on:** February 10, 2016, 01:00:47 AM »

Here's another welding concept someone came up with. Belonged to a guy that was known to burn out the rear tire till it exploded, then get off the bike and kick it over on it's side. I've also never heard a filthier mouth in my life. It's made of chopped up pieces of frame with rebar to hold it all together... it still ran like a champ

Perazzimx14 · « **Reply #35 on:** February 10, 2016, 04:49:23 AM »

Quote from: thebaileylee on February 09, 2016, 08:26:23 PM

uh huh. you ran a sidecar rig on a singletrack. sounds about right.

Must have been a narrow hack

Chuck in Indiana · « **Reply #36 on:** February 10, 2016, 07:19:00 AM »

Quote from: Perazzimx14 on February 10, 2016, 04:49:23 AM

Must have been a narrow hack

No, he said:
Last spring it ran all but the extreme expert single track

265coupe · « **Reply #37 on:** February 11, 2016, 04:14:21 AM »

Geez

Have you blokes forgotten about the spirit of adventure. Maybe you never knew it to forget it.

In Australia the name Cleatus is a synonym for hillbilly and I for one applaud the spirit of hillbilly. No rule books, no blueprints, just a genuine attitude of assess, adapt and overcome.

Seems that too many people are concerned that a loose sidecover screw or a failed dash bulb will create an 'unsafe situation' and likely result in the cataclysmic death of the user.

How about you give Cleatus a fair suck of the sav, leave him alone and go back to checking for dangerous electrolyte discharge in your Prius'.

cleatusj · « **Reply #38 on:** February 11, 2016, 06:04:48 AM »

Quote from: 265coupe on February 11, 2016, 04:14:21 AM

Geez

Have you blokes forgotten about the spirit of adventure. Maybe you never knew it to forget it.

In Australia the name Cleatus is a synonym for hillbilly and I for one applaud the spirit of hillbilly. No rule books, no blueprints, just a genuine attitude of assess, adapt and overcome.

Seems that too many people are concerned that a loose sidecover screw or a failed dash bulb will create an 'unsafe situation' and likely result in the cataclysmic death of the user.

How about you give Cleatus a fair suck of the sav, leave him alone and go back to checking for dangerous electrolyte discharge in your Prius'.

That is understanding. Thanks.

If it was not for Auzzi build threads I mite have never built a rig.

GearheadGrrrl · « **Reply #39 on:** February 11, 2016, 06:51:41 AM »

Why?

If the forks were inches out of line, the whole frame is likely tweaked and maybe cracked too. Cali frames are plentiful and cheap, instead of playing with the welder and your life, fix it right with a known good frame and forks!

Dean Rose · « **Reply #40 on:** February 11, 2016, 07:03:32 AM »

No!

He asked.

Dean

Wayne Orwig · « **Reply #41 on:** February 11, 2016, 08:23:15 AM »

Quote from: 265coupe on February 11, 2016, 04:14:21 AM

Geez
Have you blokes forgotten about the spirit of adventure. Maybe you never knew it to forget it.
In Australia the name Cleatus is a synonym for hillbilly and I for one applaud the spirit of hillbilly. No rule books, no blueprints, just a genuine attitude of assess, adapt and overcome.
Seems that too many people are concerned that a loose sidecover screw or a failed dash bulb will create an 'unsafe situation' and likely result in the cataclysmic death of the user.
How about you give Cleatus a fair suck of the sav, leave him alone and go back to checking for dangerous electrolyte discharge in your Prius'.

:1:

Let him experiment. Meanwhile everyone else can go back to their oats.

Rebochi · « **Reply #42 on:** February 11, 2016, 08:51:22 AM »

Hell no, Find someone who knows how to weld and have it done right.

kidneb · « **Reply #43 on:** February 11, 2016, 10:06:42 AM »

Quote from: cleatusj on February 09, 2016, 07:09:36 PM

- if stick is so bad why is that the way bridges are welded.

Can`t find anyone here that postulates that stick welding is bad ? Only some that say they would not choose that method for this job.
As for bridge welding, apart from what Triple Jim mentions, stick welding has the useful quality of not being wind sensitive.

Triple Jim · « **Reply #44 on:** February 11, 2016, 10:12:21 AM »

Quote from: kidneb on February 11, 2016, 10:06:42 AM

...apart from what Triple Jim mentions, stick welding has the useful quality of not being wind sensitive.

Good point, and something I don't normally think about. And now that you mentioned it, stick welding can also non be water sensitive, like when it's used for underwater welding.

normzone · « **Reply #45 on:** February 11, 2016, 10:35:47 AM »

I thought I'd wait for all the furor to die down before venturing an opinion.

In a previous lifetime I inspected about a mile of welds over five years or so. It is possible to develop welds that are structurally sound but that cannot pass inspection vs a specification. These images are fuzzy enough that I would not begin to guess if they fall into that category.

As stated elsewhere in this thread, root development is key, and that can't be assessed from these images either. I think I'll vote with the grind, reset and reweld, or replace group.

My brother bought a trike once, and rode it happily around for several months. One day on the way home on the freeway the handling started feeling funny. He made it home, pulled it up onto the lawn, and the body separated from the front end, leaving him standing there holding the handlebars with the rest of the trike between his feet.

motrhead · « **Reply #46 on:** February 11, 2016, 11:27:30 AM »

I'm a journeyman welder, been at it 30 years...and I would trust them. Yeah, they aren't pretty, but it's stick, so you know there is some real penetration, and that big gusset makes up for any missed patches.
I would be just as concerned about that other pic of the TIG welded tab...concave tiny little welds like so many TIG welders are doing...would have been better off with MIG to get a proper throat to the weld. TIG is pretty and strong, but slow. There is a reason factory frames are MIG welded. A respected frame builder chastised a bunch of racers and frame builders on one group I am on about our obsession with TIG on steel frames. Every production frame he ever made was migged.
Bikers have been scabbing chopper frames and front ends together forever with stick, and the stories of bikes falling in half are few and far between. Steel is very forgiving and easy to work with. It's the factory aluminum frames you see snapping in half all the time...

Antietam Classic Cycle · « **Reply #47 on:** February 11, 2016, 03:04:19 PM »

Quote from: motrhead on February 11, 2016, 11:27:30 AM

I would be just as concerned about that other pic of the TIG welded tab...concave tiny little welds like so many TIG welders are doing...would have been better off with MIG to get a proper throat to the weld.

I can assure you there is absolutely no reason to be concerned about that "TIG welded tab". Curtis is well known in the dirt-track racing community, having built frames, gas tanks and other components for some of the top teams.

Perazzimx14 · « **Reply #48 on:** February 11, 2016, 03:30:34 PM »

Quote from: motrhead on February 11, 2016, 11:27:30 AM

I'm a journeyman welder, been at it 30 years...and I would trust them. Yeah, they aren't pretty, but it's stick, so you know there is some real penetration, and that big gusset makes up for any missed patches.
I would be just as concerned about that other pic of the TIG welded tab...concave tiny little welds like so many TIG welders are doing...would have been better off with MIG to get a proper throat to the weld. TIG is pretty and strong, but slow. There is a reason factory frames are MIG welded. A respected frame builder chastised a bunch of racers and frame builders on one group I am on about our obsession with TIG on steel frames. Every production frame he ever made was migged.
Bikers have been scabbing chopper frames and front ends together forever with stick, and the stories of bikes falling in half are few and far between. Steel is very forgiving and easy to work with. It's the factory aluminum frames you see snapping in half all the time...

Globbing on weld with a MIG gun or stick doesn't make things stronger. Lots of chance of trapped flux/slag and porosity especially when you downhill. Most novice welders downhill because gravity pulls the puddleover the electrode and doesn't blow through the base metal. There are downhill welders and it is a speciality practice typically used in the pipeline industry. TIG is clean and there is little to no change of trapping flux/slag or having voids. Basically because there is no flux/slag created in the process and you can see if there are voids.

cleatusj · « **Reply #49 on:** February 11, 2016, 07:07:12 PM »

Uphill with 7018 on 11 gauge with ac can easily lead to a reason to grind high spots and most likely blow through. I did have a couple. I do know that there was great penetration in the neck as it could easily be seen.

cleatusj · « **Reply #50 on:** February 11, 2016, 10:51:27 PM »

Other than the factory using mig, their welds were butts also.

Mike Tashjian · « **Reply #51 on:** February 12, 2016, 07:17:44 AM »

Stick welding is one of the most versatile for your initial investment and is a great way to go on a budget. With all that surface area, I just don't see a problem there. Looks like a fun project. Very interesting, keep riding and give us a progress report later in the season. My money is on you won't have any problem. Mike

pyoungbl · « **Reply #52 on:** February 12, 2016, 08:41:09 AM »

"A grinder and paint makes up for the welder I ain't"
Old proverb

Peter Y.

Antietam Classic Cycle · « **Reply #53 on:** February 12, 2016, 11:18:39 AM »

Quote from: Antietam Classic Cycle on February 11, 2016, 03:04:19 PM

I can assure you there is absolutely no reason to be concerned about that "TIG welded tab". Curtis is well known in the dirt-track racing community, having built frames, gas tanks and other components for some of the top teams.

Plug for my friend Curtis:

An industry first for the Sportster aftermarket. This is a Flat Track race designed and inspired "Single Shock, Weld-On back half" section to allow the enthusiast to build the closest possible bike to a real XR750. Turns your Sporty into a serious street or track weapon. The kit is made using American (Plymouth) 4130 cro-moly tubing, TIG welded and comes with all hardware and instructions to complete installation and setup. Oil tanks and battery boxes are sold separately that are specifically designed for this kit. This kit raises the seat rail height for better rider position, shortens the Sportster's wheelbase by 2" and de-rakes the neck angle by 2 degrees. Base kit starts at $1999.99. Call the shop today 240-347-4663 M-F 10-6 EST

Triple Jim · « **Reply #54 on:** February 12, 2016, 12:21:34 PM »

Now there's a Harley that would be fun to have!

LaMojo · « **Reply #55 on:** February 12, 2016, 07:11:51 PM »

I'm surprised that no one has brought up the fact that the Guzzi frame is made of chrome molly steel. To avoid cracking near the new welds, a certain amount of preheat is involved and slow cool down after the weld is complected.

oldbike54 · « **Reply #56 on:** February 12, 2016, 07:35:29 PM »

Quote from: LaMojo on February 12, 2016, 07:11:51 PM

I'm surprised that no one has brought up the fact that the Guzzi frame is made of chrome molly steel. To avoid cracking near the new welds, a certain amount of preheat is involved and slow cool down after the weld is complected.

Hmm , I thought only some of the early Tonti special frames were CM , pretty sure the rest are just steel .

Dusty

Turin · « **Reply #57 on:** February 12, 2016, 08:29:05 PM »

What Dusty just said. the hand built V7sport Telio Rossos were chrome moly tubing. Everything else steel.

LaMojo · « **Reply #58 on:** February 12, 2016, 09:13:39 PM »

Chrome molly steel has been used in building MG frames for years and I think that includes the current models. I know that the spine frame and California series were included as my 98 EV has a CM frame also.

Chuck in Indiana · « **Reply #59 on:** February 13, 2016, 07:05:30 AM »

Quote from: LaMojo on February 12, 2016, 09:13:39 PM

Chrome molly steel has been used in building MG frames for years and I think that includes the current models. I know that the spine frame and California series were included as my 98 EV has a CM frame also.

That surprises me. Do you have a source for that info? *Not* trying to be contentious..

News:

Author Topic: would you trust these welds.... (Read 17315 times)

Kentktk

Doppelgaenger

kidneb

LaMojo

oldbike54

LaMojo