Are young people interested in motorcyles?

[HardAspie]

You are an Ambassador, proper for being a Guzzi rider.

[oldbike54]

You are an Ambassador, proper for being a Guzzi rider.

 Try to be , ain't pretty , ain't smart , gotta be good at something 

  Dusty

[fotoguzzi]

  1) were any of you guys/gals similarly influenced by popular culture and 2) is there a current 

When I was 15 I already had a good 6 years of mini bike experience, and the hopped up former riding lawn mower (Stanley) but I was really into speedboats (living on a lake in MN, duh).. then 2 things happened, Then Came Bronson and Easy Rider.. been a motorcycle junkie since..

my 2 adult boys show off/on interest but are never ready to actually buy something that i find for them..daughter, no interest..

[HardAspie]

My primary reason for motorcycling was that I had already 2 horrid used up cars. A friend of mine, older and a very level headed engineer kept going on about Honda bikes. He said they were more reliable than cars - and he did not mean wrecks like mine, but new! He had a brown CB 450 that was about the most wonderful thing I had ever seen in my life. he took me for several rides. Then I bought my CB 100 and fell in love with motorcycling. I found it cheaper than cars, and so much more rewarding.

[thepittsburghguzzi]

Yes :)
My two cousins and I (all mid-twenties) with some of my uncle's treasures.
I have my V7 Classic and KZ750, Danny has a Thruxton, and Lisa is learning on her TU250X. 

[jacksonracingcomau]

del

[cookiemech]

Yes :)
My two cousins and I (all mid-twenties) with some of my uncle's treasures.
I have my V7 Classic and KZ750, Danny has a Thruxton, and Lisa is learning on her TU250X. 

Nice photo and NICE bikes! Is your KZ750 a twin (fairly rare) or a four? (Can't go too far wrong either way.)

[not-fishing]

Motorcycle are no longer the cheap transportation they once were. Reliable small cars, with heat, a/c radio can be had for $3000. A set of tires will last 50k on a car and cost $400 or less. One set of 12k tires on a motorcycle will cost $300 now.

Disagree,

I bought the youngest a Aprilia Scarabeo 150 for $1000 last year.  We put $200 in parts (new battery, added key and fuel pump) then he rode it for a year to school.  Insurance was $500 in his name ($300,000 in uninsured motorest was $275 of that - this is California don't-cha-know).  Gas was $3.00 per week or so a full tank and school parking $60 per year.

Just to insure him in a $3000 beater car would be $1400 per year.  Then you have double for gas, double+ for parts and double parking fees.

Also he saves 10 minutes every trip to school by splitting lanes and loves riding his little Scarab. 

This year we did the valves, brakes, tires, oil, tranny oil (belt was good) and spent about $250 for parts.  The tires are good for 10,000 miles.

I figure the car would cost double to triple what that little scooter costs.

Still there is a hidden cost in bikes ........I have a road trip to make this weekend and if all goes well ............

[Perazzimx14]

Either one of you guys want to adopt a 61 year old kid ?

 Dusty

Are you house broke?

[thepittsburghguzzi]

Nice photo and NICE bikes! Is your KZ750 a twin (fairly rare) or a four? (Can't go too far wrong either way.)

Thank you kindly!! My KZ is the twin - quite the vibration at speed, but sure does have a ton of usable torque in the low/mid range! My riding buddy has a 550LTD and my boss has a 440LTD, both of which are 4 pots. I've never seen another KZ Twin in my area, I'm proud of what I've got :)

[jas67]

Was a time when a "decent" bike could be picked up on the cheap and kept running by wit, spit and a bit o' wire.

Not so much anymore.

Those "decent" bikes of the past are generally completely used up or have become collectible in their own right and so, somewhat overpriced for the entry level hobbyist.

At least in my area, there are plenty of Ninja 250 with reasonable miles, and in overall good condition for $1,000-$1,500.   That's pretty darned cheap transportation.

Other models I see in this price range that also make great starter bikes:
Suzuki GS500
Ninja 500(usually more like $2k though for these).
Nighthawk 250
Rebel 250 (if you don't mind cruiserish styling, but, great for those with short legs)
Suzuki GZ250 (see comment on the Rebel 250)

[Triple Jim]

At least in my area, there are plenty of Ninja 250 with reasonable miles, and in overall good condition for $1,000-$1,500.   That's pretty darned cheap transportation.

Those can be amazing deals.   Mine was $1,100 last year, and runs very well as purchased.  I was surprised at what a great general purpose motorcycle it is.  Insurance and parts are cheap, and it gets 65 mpg.

[guzzinka]

These are really interesting responses.  I'm 46 now and when I started riding, cbs and kzs were treated as "junk", I got many riders for free or close to it.  Now its all collectible, and the cheap niche (at least here in urban Chicago) is filled by all manner of mopeds and scooters driven by kids in their 20s.  The game has definitely changed, but the kids are still on two wheels.  My 16 yr old daughter has 0 interest in my bikes, I have hope for my older son, though he's only 4!

[Huzo]

Here in Australia in the rarly seventies we had a show from the US called "Then Came Bronson", the opening credits showed him pulling up next to some jaded office worker in a traffic jam, I think our man was on a Harley Sportster or similar,here's the hook though I can still remember it. the guy in the car looks wistfully over at our hero and says, "where ya headin'", "wherever I end up I guess" is the casual reply, "man, I wish I was you" says the car guy, "Yeah well, hang in there" says our man. he then dlips the Harley into gear and blasts out over a masive bridge and is gone.... check out Bob Seger's studio version of "Roll Me Away" and/or "Against The Wind"...... Magic

[Huzo]

Sorry, that'd be "clicks" the Harley into gear

[cruzziguzzi]

Excluding "adjusted for inflation" which I see as usually being a non-starter in contemporary comparables, I don't see a $1,100 - $2,000 dollar outlay these days as being relative to the near free bikes of the 70's and even early 80's.

What got us going was being able to buy motive transport - regardless of state/condition - from the returns of; paper routes, shoveling snow or mowing lawns.

I don't expect a kid to be able to buy something for the old numbers of $35.00 - $50.00 bucks but I'm not buying that today's $2,000 was my $50.00 either. Then there's the relative complexities of modern vehicles to contend with.

While I acknowledge that folks can poke holes in the general concept, the sea of inexpensive and user friendly options simply no longer exists to whet the appetite of so vast a swath of youth as it once did. I figure that the odd, hunted for and overly compensated options simply prove the rule.

Then, on top of it all is a fairly modern attitude shared by too many youth that they simply should not have to "pay dues" in any form, least of which, transportation or fun in the form of a clap-trap bike. immediate gratification and all that.

How many of us bought whatever we could afford when they were on-the-cheap leading into winter knowing full well, labor and finances would use up all of the cold months getting it rideable for the spring?

The bikes simply aren't out there leaning against sheds, garages and boats, waiting for the next enthusiastic youngster like they once were.



Todd.

[Triple Jim]

Excluding "adjusted for inflation" which I see as usually being a non-starter in contemporary comparables, I don't see a $1,100 - $2,000 dollar outlay these days as being relative to the near free bikes of the 70's and even early 80's.

It's hard for me to relate to the value of the dollar today.  My brain is pretty well stuck around 1980 or so, but a dollar today is worth about 1/3 of a dollar in 1980.  When I hear a price, I usually have to divide by three before I can decide if it's a good value. 

A kid getting out of engineering college can start at $50,000/year now, which is about 3 times what I started at.  So it's really true that an $1,100 motorcycle today is like a $370 motorcycle in 1980.  If you check out Craigslist, you can find running motorcycles even cheaper.  I don't think things have changed much at all, really.

[kidsmoke]

These are really interesting responses.  I'm 46 now and when I started riding, cbs and kzs were treated as "junk", I got many riders for free or close to it.  Now its all collectible, and the cheap niche (at least here in urban Chicago) is filled by all manner of mopeds and scooters driven by kids in their 20s.  The game has definitely changed, but the kids are still on two wheels.  My 16 yr old daughter has 0 interest in my bikes, I have hope for my older son, though he's only 4!

this. I spent the last 26 years in Chicago. In the city the Hipsters are fixing up and hobbling together old Japanese bikes, and prize any motorized scooter at all. The cliche's about the bearded, tatted, flannel and rolled cuff clad wrench with a grinder are cliches for a reason.

In the Burbs they're all about harley's and doo rags, or on a rocket.

There is a BMW/Ducati/Triumph/Vespa dealer I frequent, and they've been cajoled into working on a Guzzi now and again, but will recommend you find your way to Rose Farm if at all possible. My Jackal was in there getting some cosmetic attention, next to a Centauro in the throes of a full cosmetic restoration and the youngest wrench in there, albeit Beemer certified, was all agog about it. He was in the midst of rebuilding a vintage Eldo and wanted to chat. On the other hand, my 28 year old son is scared to death of the idea of riding in the city. Irrational perhaps....but he was hit on his bicycle and got an ambulance trip to the ER out of it, then later was on a Greyhound bus that caught a soft shoulder and ended up rolling over in a central Illinois corn field when he was 11...so he's got this thing about transportation ingrained that logic is helpless against. My daughter is all about it but at 24, is 5'2" 110 and is a bit overwhelmed by them. Among their peers, I can't think of a one who rides. This is Chicago itself. No doubt, that has an impact.

[jas67]

Excluding "adjusted for inflation" which I see as usually being a non-starter in contemporary comparables, I don't see a $1,100 - $2,000 dollar outlay these days as being relative to the near free bikes of the 70's and even early 80's.

What got us going was being able to buy motive transport - regardless of state/condition - from the returns of; paper routes, shoveling snow or mowing lawns.

How 'bout a $400 scooter then?

I picked up a 2009 Kymco Agility 125 scooter a couple years bike to use as campground transportation.  It was titled and in good condition, both mechanical and otherwise.   I've seen similar deals since.    That is certainly mobility on a paper route budget (not that kids have paper routes anymore).

[Kev m]

Try to be , ain't pretty , ain't smart , gotta be good at something 

  Dusty

Well, you got annoying covered...

    

[Kev m]

I dunno, some of those scooter and cheap tiny bike stories are exceptions.

You can't convince me that $400 Kymco or $1k Scarabeo will long term do what a halfway decent used car will.

I mean if you live anywhere in a snow belt it's just not apples and apples.

If your commute involves 10-20 miles of highway it's just not the same.

And yeah the car costs more initially and MAYBE the insurance is more (varies by state and AGE of the driver/rider), but there's a reason for that which includes a price on safety if you're talking about a young/inexperienced operator.

And you're still going to be replacing tires on the bike 5-10x in 50k miles vs. 1x in the car.

Plus chains/sprockets, or scooter CVT drive belts, and whatever other services (brakes, valves, probably more frequent and expensive oil changes).

What about gear? I mean Arai and Stich vs. Bilt and Joe Rocket. But helmet, jacket, pants, boots, gloves... Either way it adds up.

I just don't think most people will reasonably save much money with a bike, and certainly the bigger and faster and more interesting the bike, the less likely it becomes.

[oldbike54]

Are you house broke?

 Well , at least in warm weather 

 Dusty

[not-fishing]

Excluding "adjusted for inflation" which I see as usually being a non-starter in contemporary comparables, I don't see a $1,100 - $2,000 dollar outlay these days as being relative to the near free bikes of the 70's and even early 80's.

Todd.

I-phones are over $1,000 per year and are replaced ever 2-3 years.

High speed internet is over $1,000 per year.

Mountain bikes at more than $5,000 that are common.

Ipods, clouds, new gamer desktops, games.

$1,000-$2,000 for something that can take you 10,000 miles fast seems cheap to me.

Mark

[Muzz]

HardAspie, those CB100's are great little bikes. Commuted on one for years. I already had the Honda tools for the tappets and removing the spinning oil filter so it really was cheap running. Those things are bullet proof!

[not-fishing]

I dunno, some of those scooter and cheap tiny bike stories are exceptions.

And yeah the car costs more initially and MAYBE the insurance is more (varies by state and AGE of the driver/rider), but there's a reason for that which includes a price on safety if you're talking about a young/inexperienced operator.

And you're still going to be replacing tires on the bike 5-10x in 50k miles vs. 1x in the car.

The key is the insurance at $1500 per year vs $500. 

As to gear the boy bought all of it on sale so he's got about $400 in two jackets (warm & cold) gloves, helmet and ear plugs.

I ran the numbers of my $4,500 used Griso vs my 05 Cadillac CTS-V.  The V actually gets good mileage at 20 mpg but the savings in maintenance and gas have made it a "no-comparison" situation.  The Griso runs about half the cost without depreciation.  Sure I take the Caddie when it rains, in the snow or I have to drive deep into the SF Bay area but now I'm putting less than 4,000 miles a year on the car which is a good thing.

Mark
,

[oldbike54]

 Mr Fishing , did you factor in tire costs ?

 Dusty

[Kev m]

I think my point is you can cherry pick examples and situations all you want (cheap used bike vs. expensive car, something too small to get on the highway vs. used had guzzler, etc.), but generally speaking you won't make up in efficiency what you lose in maintenance and other costs if you're comparing more apples-to-apples.

I keep coming back to the cheapest new cars available on the market. Something like a Nissan Versa, $12k 27/36 mpg vs at least a 600cc or so from JAPanInc.

The Versa is going to be dry comfortable, allow you to carry 4 people, and is likely going to last 100k miles without significant repairs.

Now if insurance isn't a major influence, then I suspect gear and maintenance will be a huge hit on a motorcycle.

You'll likely be spending a couple hundred dollars in tires alone every 5-10k on a bike, if only every 10k and only $100/tire you're at $2k in 100k vs a Versa can probably get away with one $400 set around 50k miles.

How about chain and sprockets? A couple hundred dollars at least 2-3 times in 100k.

How about valve adjustments?

And here's the final word on it. If you have to move more than 2 people at the same time, then double all the bike costs, cause you'll need two of em.

We love our bikes, but when Jenn and I tour together on the Guzzi and Duc, the combined fuel mileage isn't much better than if we took the Grand Cherokee, and in 50k miles like that we're going to be lucky if we ONLY buy 10 tires between the two bikes.

[HardAspie]

I loved my CB 100. Only reason for trading to my equally loved CB 350G was to be able to run freeways. Both bikes were as reliable as anvils and about as cheap to run.

The bike that I am planning to buy, after pondering bikes and numbers including my dismal income, is a direct lineal descendant of that beloved 100. Honda bumped it to 125 and added some goodies. San Yang started to build under license CB 125s in 1971  and took it over completely when Honda ceased making them on 2002.

Take my CB 100 and: Bump it to 150cc and probably double the HP, ceramic coat the cylinder, add electric start, more powerful electrical, halogen headlamp (good old H4), tachometer, trip odometer, a nice twin piston front disc brake, and there is the Wolf Classic 150. I think I can afford to own one and still have money left to operate it. Yay! And it will do freeways and I states...not real fast...but at my age 55 - 60 is probably enough. Hey: it still comes with a tool kit!

I like so much the numbers, but that I kinda know what it is and like the ancestor I owned so much, well even though it is tiny I am feeling kinda tickled.

[Arizona Wayne]

Erik Estrada!

I shot a (very strange) round of skeet with him and a few others out to Prado Tiro about 1990. Nice guy! Great shot too! And know how his teeth were as shiny as the grill of a fifties Buick? They were in real life too. he kissed my hand!

I met his CHiP riding partner as a SF Bay area Int'l Bike Show years ago.   Seemed like a nice guy.

[HardAspie]

I would think he was. You know, that was a corny old show but there was nothing in it that would erode a person's good attitude or pollute their soul.