V7 vs V7II ?

[ohiorider]

I'm aware there are a few differences between the V7 and V7II.  Here's what I think I know:
- V7 has 5 speed tranny, V7II has 6 speed.
- V7II tranny is reputedly smoother shifting than the 5 speed (?)
- V7II engine has been repositioned to better align it with the frame and drive line (?)
- Later models of V7 and all V7II use single throttle body.

Where I'm headed with this is ..... I have $$ from the sale of the lovely Griso 8vSE.  It isn't burning a hole in my pocket.  But I may, for various reasons, want a lighter bike to ride this summer, other than the 1200 Sport, and one easier to mount than the tall R100GS.  I've told myself 'no more new Guzzis,' be happy with the one you currently own.  But, you know how that goes.

So, the question is ..... not how much you love your small block.  Question is .... is the V7II worth the extra bucks?  Seems like all V7II Stones on Cycle Trader are listed at $8999.00.  I'm not quite up to shelling out that much for a small block without some justification, real or perceived.

One more question ...... just how stiff is the stock suspension on the small blocks?  I recall R59 mentioning his new bike was a rather harsh ride.  I went thru that with the Griso, and if that's the case with all the new small blocks, it will rule them out.  I don't want to buy a new bike only to have to spend another thou just to make the suspension compliant.

Thanks in advance for your input.

Bob

[guzzisteve]

Wait for the V9, you'll be glad you did!! Larger clutch and drivetrain.

Myself, I would rather have a small bigblock than a big smallblock

[Kev m]

Bob, the suspension is stiff, but it wasn't as bad as a stock Sportster to me. I'm not sure it was worse than a stock neo-Bonnie or a W650 either.

But if you thought it was I'd suspect (judging from your Airhead experience) that you'd be happy with a couple hundred dollar set of shocks.

Other than that V7 or V7 II Stone or Special, you'd probably be happy with any of them.

My V7 is not as powerful as my old Breva 1100, but it's smaller, lighter, and I generally like it much better.

[MGPilot]

I could have saved money on a V7. Both were available in the shop. I had read a magazine review of the V7 that muttered that there was a pretty big gap between 3rd and 4th...that a 6 speed would be better. It's my belief that the smaller the engine, the more it benefits from attention to managing RPM's. Based primarily on that, I chose the V7II as I'd have to live with the choice a long time.

That said, it's the smallest motorcycle I've owned....and my favorite. As I ride solo, I loosened the preload on the shocks. Many of the roads in western Washington are rough and worn. The ride quality is simply not a problem. Does it ride like a 700lb cruiser? No. And that's perfect....and what makes it fun.

[rocker59]

Bob, you should budget for some suspension mods.

The 5 speed shifts smooth, it just has more lever travel and no stops like the 6 speed has.

If you don't want / need ABS-TC, then get a 14 or 15.

I chose the 14 because of the dry alternator and aggressive duscounts.

[jas67]

Bob,

    If you enjoy airheads (which, I know you do), you'll enjoy the V7.   It is basically the same as twin-shock airhead, but, with fuel injection, a 90 degree V-twin (and that wonderful V-twin sound), and more modern brakes.   It is a little smaller and lighter than airheads.    +1 to Kevin's comments on the suspension.    I rode Cam's that has the $340 Ikons back to back with mine with stock ones on, and was very happy with the improvements.     I will be buying a set for my Special as soon as the budget allows.

[kingoffleece]

I have a 15 MY V7.  5000 miles on that bike last riding season (there are others in the shed) and I never felt like a 6th gear was necessary.

I'm also in the "stock rear shocks are rubbish" camp.  300-400 bucks for a better pair is doable and I'd have it done before I picked up the bike.  In fact, that's what I did!  Yes, I had ridden the stock set up.  Very similar to the 865 Bonnies-which is to say built to a price.

[John Ulrich]

I've never purchased a new or used bike that I did not replace the front and rear suspension and seat......includes snowmobiles also.

[ohiorider]

Very useful observations.  Thanks to all who responded. 

[kingoffleece]

I agree on suspension.  No need to be a racer but when you've experienced a bike set up for you it's a revelation.  Simply wonderful experience.

[Vagrant]

my 2015 V7 showed up a week ago it now has 800 miles on it. suspension was like a jack hammer in the front and a pile driver in the rear. I have taken 4 turns out of the rear preload it was cranked way up when delivered. I weigh 230. now it is tolerable on these horrible Az. roads and it smoothed out the front a lot. on good roads it would be as OK as any other built to price bike. but, I have $3000. to buy shocks if I want compared to a 2016. 6 speed would be nice for all mountain driving but no more needed than the Gold Wing or FJR really needing one.
most importantly I love this bike. it is better in all departments than I expected.

[ohiorider]

Question - have any of you V7 owners experimented with fork oil weight and/or fork oil level?  My 2003 Bonnie T100 OEM cheapie Kayaba forks (with no adjustments) were actually too mushy.  Progressive springs and lots of experimenting with fork oil level made the front end ok, and a set of Progressive 440s really improved the rear suspension.  I did have to send the 440s back to Progressive for the correct springs ..... those that came from the mail order house were for a much heavier bike.  But once I had the lighter springs installed, bike was a really nice ride. 

From all the comments, I think I'd be fine with a V7 5 speed with some suspension work.

Bob

[kingoffleece]

I may get grief for saying this but every suspension expert I know, and that's two (both with winning race bike experience including the Daytona 200 for one of them) won't use a progressive spring.

They believe that it's impossible to get the correct result when the spring rate is variable.  The reason is, as I understand it, that the tuner does not know which rate to tune to.  Also, as I've been told, there is coil bind in the progressive spring.  It's way deeper than that but that's the short version.

What they have done for me is to build to my weight and general style of riding.

As for fork oil, if you're going to take it apart why not complete the job the first time.  There are a few good kits for the V7 front end that have some adjustment and the reports are that they work well from the guys I know who have them.

However, as we know, everybody has their own expectation and I also know a rider who is very pleased with the improvement the progressive spring made on his V7.

I'll bet none of this helps!  Bottom line, as stated above, the shocks and springs are built to a price. A low one.  Several ways to skin this cat and all of them, I imagine, are better than as delivered.

[neverquit]

I have a small block, a Nevada which is basically a V7 dressed to look like a cruiser.  I tossed the cruiser trim and made it look more like a V7 Classic.  Anyway I am planning to buy a new bike soon.  After a couple incidents last summer I've decided I want ABS braking.  So the only small block I would ever consider is the V7II.  I have modified every bike in my small fleet with better rear shocks and seats.  I also relocated the pegs one bike to get the seating position I like.  After looking at the V7II I have already decided it will need shocks, seat and peg work to make me happy.  But I am old to be riding a motorcycle and I suspect it would be fine for a young guy.  To answer your question, I won't buy a V7 or any other new non-ABS bike no matter how cheap they get.

[rocker59]

I may get grief for saying this but every suspension expert I know, and that's two (both with winning race bike experience including the Daytona 200 for one of them) won't use a progressive spring.

They believe that it's impossible to get the correct result when the spring rate is variable.  The reason is, as I understand it, that the tuner does not know which rate to tune to.  Also, as I've been told, there is coil bind in the progressive spring.  It's way deeper than that but that's the short version.

What they have done for me is to build to my weight and general style of riding.

As for fork oil, if you're going to take it apart why not complete the job the first time.  There are a few good kits for the V7 front end that have some adjustment and the reports are that they work well from the guys I know who have them.

However, as we know, everybody has their own expectation and I also know a rider who is very pleased with the improvement the progressive spring made on his V7.

I'll bet none of this helps!  Bottom line, as stated above, the shocks and springs are built to a price. A low one.  Several ways to skin this cat and all of them, I imagine, are better than as delivered.

Generally, I agree with this.

However, if soaking up small bumps is the priority, the progressively wound springs may work for the individual.

For a bike ridden hard, single-rate springs are the ticket.  Re-springing my Sport 1100 was the best thing, ever!

[Kev m]

I have no reason to doubt King and his experts.

But considering the popularity of progressive rate springs in street use, I can't help but wonder if the difference is expectations for track vs street.

I would guess they are likely fine for most/average rider's expectations, but as needs get greater so do the downsides of the compromise.

[kingoffleece]

Kev,
You are right on.  Plenty of street riders are very happy with progressive springs.

I always enjoy your insights-and I learn a thing or two to boot!

Good bunch of folks here.

[sib]

...Question is .... is the V7II worth the extra bucks?

The first time the ABS saves your skin, you will have your answer.

[Kev m]

The first time the ABS saves your skin, you will have your answer.

I believe you mean - "IF the ABS EVER..."

[pikipiki]

I thought about this although I couldn't justify the cost of an abs bike for me it was a 2TB or a 1TB. If it will bug you you haven't got the latest and greatest then a V7ii it must be but.....
Hang on, Guzzi is not the most up to date bike and every addition gets replaced by something else, something else you must have.
 There's also case with older bike you got the last of the 2Tb 750s which hasn't changed a lot since the V35 and by 2008 everything is pretty much sorted. The bike is reliable and half the price or less than the latest and greatest.
 My 08 V7 classic has absolutely nothing wrong with it. It will hold any speed up to as fast as any ones going till the gas runs out. fuel economy is good. if I want to take it apart (or if i ever needed to) its all there on the net.
I might upgrade some time but then again I might not. I could trade a good bike for something with a problem.
If your not money rich and time poor and a good older bike comes available you don't need to blow another $3000 on a newer one.

[Kev m]

I thought about this although I couldn't justify the cost of an abs bike for me it was a 2TB or a 1TB. If it will bug you you haven't got the latest and greatest then a V7ii it must be but.....
Hang on, Guzzi is not the most up to date bike and every addition gets replaced by something else, something else you must have.
 There's also case with older bike you got the last of the 2Tb 750s which hasn't changed a lot since the V35 and by 2008 everything is pretty much sorted. The bike is reliable and half the price or less than the latest and greatest.
 My 08 V7 classic has absolutely nothing wrong with it. It will hold any speed up to as fast as any ones going till the gas runs out. fuel economy is good. if I want to take it apart (or if i ever needed to) its all there on the net.
I might upgrade some time but then again I might not. I could trade a good bike for something with a problem.
If your not money rich and time poor and a good older bike comes available you don't need to blow another $3000 on a newer one.

In the US the 1TB prices are so good you don't necessarily gain much by going with the 2TB.

And, unless you got a 2012 2TB model you'd get the smaller plastic tank.

For ME there was no doubt I wanted (and waited for) the 2013 1TB to get the different tuning (I really preferred the feel of the 1TB motor) and the larger, metal fuel tank, as well as the new cast aluminum wheels.

[pyoungbl]

Here's another take on the V7 suspension...Stock I thought it extremely harsh, both front and rear.  I tried messing with the preload front and rear but that did not help much.  In the end I replaced the shocks and suddenly was not being launched off the seat.  Then I realized how bad the forks were.  New springs, emulator, and oil changed that.  I had to experiment with air gap and preload in the front.  Doing so was easy and cheap (Guzzi content!).

As for progressive springs: the forks, when extended, have an air gap.  This air is compressed as the forks are compressed.  The resistance created by the compression is not linear, it is progressive.  If you have progressive springs you are doubling down on the progressive feature and doing so (IMHO) making it really hard to get a suspension that will be supple for small bumps yet not bottom out on hard ones.  In fact, you might not get anywhere close to the wheel travel quoted by the factory.  As an experiment, put a zip tie on the male part of the fork and see how much travel you really have.  If it's the full length you might need less air gap because you are bottoming out.  If there is an inch or two being unused you have too little gap or your progressive springs are limiting the travel...or both.

If you are determined to buy a bike that you don't have to mess with the suspension I'd recommend something like the Multistrada with Skyhook suspension. Of course you are now talking about $21K before all the dealer add-on.  That makes a Guzzi suspension upgrade look pretty nice in my mind.

Peter Y.

[kingoffleece]

Ha ha.  Skyhook-nice, until it fails.  I can't imagine how expensive that would be.
359 or so gets you a Matris kit for the front that's adjustable.  Of course, it's easy enough to play around with the front end, too.
I get the appeal of that.  Quality shop time with the bike (and a cigar and beer!).

[sign216]

The first time the ABS saves your skin, you will have your answer.

I dumped my older V7 on a gravel turn.  Broke two bones.  I kept riding (550 miles over two days to home), but suddenly ABS seems like a worthy choice.

[Kev m]

I dumped my older V7 on a gravel turn.  Broke two bones.  I kept riding (550 miles over two days to home), but suddenly ABS seems like a worthy choice.

No saying that ABS would have saved that...