2014 Norge Final Drive Noise

[oldbike54]

Either of you guys are always welcome to the 36-18 B&B, and I'll fix you a special breakfast.
Oh, wait.. Rocker has already been here..

 Careful about making those kind of offers , we might all three show up , and maybe bring Chet Rugg along also . Not sure anyone wants that 

 Dusty

[Delta425]

OK, FINALLY got a ride in yesterday, and all is fine.  Damn work and travel got in the way of things.  Anyways, thanks to everyone for your replies.

[Huzo]

So what do you think it was ?

[Doppelgaenger]

Two things you learn never to do after the first time you do them:

• running the bike on the center stand
• locking up the rear wheel

[Huzo]

Ok fair enough, I can understand it's politically correct to join the chorus and howl down anyone who runs their bike in gear on the centre stand, at least you know you won't be disagreed with and Pete made a very good point on that topic. Can someone please tell me though about the second of the two things you learn never to do again once you've done it once, that being locking the rear wheel, where is the lesson to be learned there ?

[pete roper]

It's not 'Politically Correct' anything. It's an easily recognisable result of doing something fundamentally pretty dim that the machine was never designed to do. Loud knocking and rattling noises are usually a pretty damn good indicator that you're doing something wrong. Once it is explained why in a situation like this the horrible noise occurs it should be blindingly obvious that it's not a good idea.

To many people, myself included, it is virtually incomprehensible that one would run a large capacity twin cylinder engine with a lightish flywheel, considerable backlash in the driveline and very uneven firing intervals and then be astonished that the driveline protests by making a noise like a cement mixer full of bricks! This isn't because I'm particularly smart. Neither is it because I have some sort of 'Secret Knowledge' handed down to me through the aerial on my tinfoil hat! It's just simple common sense. It's not something I had to *Learn*. To me it was bleeding obvious the moment I saw that the Guzzi engine had a shared crankpin when I bought my first one in 1978 that the firing intervals would be uneven and therefore running the driveline unloaded would be a bad idea.

I know that some people don't have this sort of 'Mechanical train of thought' which is why when explaining the issue I was very polite and used expressions like 'Please don't do that'. I didn't notice anybody 'Howling anyone down', only people trying, with a degree of urgency, trying to dissuade someone else from damaging their motorcycle's driveline.

YOMV.

Pete

[Chuck in Indiana]

that being locking the rear wheel, where is the lesson to be learned there ?

You'll learn the term, "I had to lay her down?" 

[Wayne Orwig]

Can someone please tell me though about the second of the two things you learn never to do again once you've done it once, that being locking the rear wheel, where is the lesson to be learned there ?

As Chuck mentioned, you'll learn the phrase 'I had to lay it down to "avoid" and accident'. The problem is, laying it down IS and accident.

 

[canuguzzi]

Two of the best teachers are called "experience" and "consequences" for first usually leading to the second.

So long as personal injury isn't involved, its just something material which can usually be replaced or otherwise fixed.

Each of us probably has a gift that others do not and could easily tell others things they do not know. It doesn't make anyone better than another, just different and if we can somehow help someone else, the gift was worthwhile, otherwise, it was a waste.

The thing is, very often the results of helping someone isn't realized until long afterwards. In the meantime, judgement comes along.

The person who is told something but doesn't get it right away but does later still learned, just not as fast as others demand. If in the meantime, some material thing got turned into scrap, so what? None of us are made by Intel.

[PJPR01]

Good judgment comes from Experience

Experience can sometimes (not always) come from Bad Judgment.

    Just have to enjoy the circle!

[oldbike54]

Good judgment comes from Experience

Experience can sometimes (not always) come from Bad Judgment.

    Just have to enjoy the circle!

 Value your mistakes , for they are the only thing truly yours .
 
  Dusty

[Delta425]

But, to be clear, I first heard the noise while RIDING the bike around the house. It actually seemed louder while riding than on the center stand. And, on the center stand, while applying the rear brake lightly, the noise was the same as no brake pressure.

[Delta425]

Two of the best teachers are called "experience" and "consequences" for first usually leading to the second.

So long as personal injury isn't involved, its just something material which can usually be replaced or otherwise fixed.

Each of us probably has a gift that others do not and could easily tell others things they do not know. It doesn't make anyone better than another, just different and if we can somehow help someone else, the gift was worthwhile, otherwise, it was a waste.

The thing is, very often the results of helping someone isn't realized until long afterwards. In the meantime, judgement comes along.

The person who is told something but doesn't get it right away but does later still learned, just not as fast as others demand. If in the meantime, some material thing got turned into scrap, so what? None of us are made by Intel.

Damn good post. I, too, get very sick of the KIA club.

[PJPR01]

But, to be clear, I first heard the noise while RIDING the bike around the house. It actually seemed louder while riding than on the center stand. And, on the center stand, while applying the rear brake lightly, the noise was the same as no brake pressure.

Is it possible that you were riding w/o a helmet at the time and the noise "seemed" louder, and now when riding again with a helmet, it's no longer there?

[canuguzzi]

My side stand was recently replaced. Afterwards I noticed a slight tick tick on startup coming from the right side. It went away immediately. Prior that that, I rarely used the side stand because it leaned over so far. Checking, the few ticks aren't heard when using the center stand.

Point: sometimes we change things or after some spell of not riding we might hear noises that were always there but we got used to them

Once, I heard a ticking type of noise from the rear end, nothing more than a small rock stuck in the tread of the rear tire. I must have looked numerous time but the stuck rock must have been where I couldn't see it. Finally, I spun the wheel and there was the little bugger.

You never know. It could be a nail too, worn down and barely visable. That would do it. Not deep enough to cause a flat. Worth a check.

[Delta425]

Is it possible that you were riding w/o a helmet at the time and the noise "seemed" louder, and now when riding again with a helmet, it's no longer there?

Good thought, but, no the original noise was very noticeable.  Also, when I rode on Sunday, the first 200 yards I rode without a helmet for that very reason.  Is as quiet now as it was last fall before I put her up.  No idea what it was really, but am glad it's gone.

[canuguzzi]

Good for you. 

[Huzo]

So not wanting to ruffle any feathers but, all I said was... Apply the rear brake LIGHTLY, my query is, how the hell does the engine know if the resistance is coming from the brake application or like it would if it was pulling you along the road for instance ? Now please don't take offence that  I asked . THIS time there's none intended.

[Chuck in Indiana]

So not wanting to ruffle any feathers but, all I said was... Apply the rear brake LIGHTLY, my query is, how the hell does the engine know if the resistance is coming from the brake application or like it would if it was pulling you along the road for instance ? Now please don't take offence that  I asked . THIS time there's none intended.

If I understand what you are saying, the engine wouldn't know the difference. If you are talking about running it on the centerstand, and applying brake to load the engine, that is a completely different scenario.

[Huzo]

Chuck, would you ,or someone else please tell me why it's a different scenario ? I'm not disputing anyone here at all, if I asked the question in person it would sound different than in text but a LIGHT application of the rear brake would I thought, (and still do), take up the driveline lash and allow you to get near the rear drive while in operation, after all, when your bike is on a dyno, your are being provided with a resistance and my contention was that you are simulating this to a lesser extent. That's all I was suggesting, honestly...

[pete roper]

It's a question of mass.

[Doppelgaenger]

Ok fair enough, I can understand it's politically correct to join the chorus and howl down anyone who runs their bike in gear on the centre stand, at least you know you won't be disagreed with and Pete made a very good point on that topic. Can someone please tell me though about the second of the two things you learn never to do again once you've done it once, that being locking the rear wheel, where is the lesson to be learned there ?

The noise the bike makes when you lock up the rear is about the same sound it makes running on the center stand, only worse. Fortunately the B11 has the best rear brake I've ever encountered on the bike so it's hard to do

[tris]

The noise the bike makes when you lock up the rear is about the same sound it makes running on the center stand, only worse. Fortunately the B11 has the best rear brake I've ever encountered on the bike so it's hard to do

OFF TOPIC

That's interesting since I think mine is pants - I think a coat of looking at is called for !!

ON TOPIC

[Chuck in Indiana]

Chuck, would you ,or someone else please tell me why it's a different scenario ? I'm not disputing anyone here at all, if I asked the question in person it would sound different than in text but a LIGHT application of the rear brake would I thought, (and still do), take up the driveline lash and allow you to get near the rear drive while in operation, after all, when your bike is on a dyno, your are being provided with a resistance and my contention was that you are simulating this to a lesser extent. That's all I was suggesting, honestly...

When you run the bike on a dyno, the rear suspension is loaded, and the u joint is in a normal alignment. On the centerstand, not so much.

[Huzo]

Ok then that'll do me, I'm bound to admit that the Uni is transferring drive through a greater angle , if that means you're mistreating the bike then fair enough, it's a point that obviously carries some merit so I'll think about that before doing anything similar to mine.

[canuguzzi]

Bad news to all Stelvio owners who ride off road and get air. Their U Joints are unloaded as are their suspensions, or are they all closing the throttles to avoid damage?

Same for any other bike that goes off road. Someone needs to tell all the GS owners too along with anyone riding a shaftie off road for any reason.

[JeffOlson]

^ I agree, and it sounds like bad news for all of us who get a little air or unload our suspensions over bumps. We had all better slow down and avoid doing that! 

For some reason, I am not satisfied with the explanations given so far. I do not doubt the advice given ("Don't do that!"), but that advice does not explain mechanically what is going on. Perhaps I am just a bit slow on the uptake...

[canuguzzi]

^ I agree, and it sounds like bad news for all of us who get a little air or unload our suspensions over bumps. We had all better slow down and avoid doing that! 

For some reason, I am not satisfied with the explanations given so far. I do not doubt the advice given ("Don't do that!"), but that advice does not explain mechanically what is going on. Perhaps I am just a bit slow on the uptake...

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=um7T3pGP0fA

[oldbike54]

 If you will notice , the rear tire on the Stelvio really never leaves the ground , trolling the posts suggesting running the bike in gear with the rear wheel suspended is a bad idea is just that , a bad idea. You may think you know more than Pete , or Chuck , but you don't .

 Dusty

[normzone]

Wait a minute - I think I see what the problem may be here:

" Well, the noise was there when I rode the bike around the house, but it was a bit muddy and was doing the flat track routine."

There's a couple of things going on. One is all the mud inside your house. The other is that you have a big enough place that you can flat track in it.