Cali 1400 steering opinions

[bsanut]

Hi..

Those of you who have 1400s, does anybody have any issues with how it steers?  To me, the front end feels 'kicked out', a bit chopper-ish, lending the feeling of the front wheel sort of 'falling' into turns.  At low speeds anyway.  At cruising velocity I have no issue.

It's livable, but still sort of ponderous in tight turns in the lower gears.  I've dropped the front forks 10mm and that seemed to help a bit.  But I'm a little afraid to go further as I don't know how much clearance the front fender has at full compression.  Next step is to add more preload to the rear.  And I've heard a narrower rear tire does things.

Anybody?

Joe

[pete roper]

What tyr pressures are you running?

[mtiberio]

touring or cruiser? the cruiser has longer shocks than the touring. maybe you should look into a set of the triple clamps from an Eldorado 1400, they pull the front wheel in.

[bsanut]

What tyr pressures are you running?

Mfg spec.  Tried a little higher in front, made no difference.

[bsanut]

touring or cruiser? the cruiser has longer shocks than the touring. maybe you should look into a set of the triple clamps from an Eldorado 1400, they pull the front wheel in.

Cruiser/Custom.  Not really into getting that carried away changing parts.  It's fine enough to adjust to.  But my Victory Cross Country steered far better/easier in low speed situations and weighed 150 pounds more.  The new Indian I'm buying steers about the same as the CC, weighs more AGAIN.

Joe

[Lcarlson]

I have a Cali 14 and have not noticed any issue with the steering. It is a cruiser, of course, so it's not going to steer like a smaller, shorter motorcycle. My benchmarks for comparison are a Kawasaki Vulcan 1500 Nomad that I had for about a decade, and a Road King I rented in Utah for a week last June. The Cali out handles both easily, including low-speed maneuvers. I haven't ridden the Victory or Indian, so can't compare them.

[Groover]

I think that's the nature of having a fat tire in the rear. I "think" you may be able to offset that a little by increasing the rake a little if you can (making it more chopper-ish technically) - the more you lower the forks, I believe the more you will feel the front end fall in.

[bsanut]

I think that's the nature of having a fat tire in the rear. I "think" you may be able to offset that a little by increasing the rake a little if you can (making it more chopper-ish technically) - the more you lower the forks, I believe the more you will feel the front end fall in.

I am sure it's the opposite.  I had a chopper or two in the old days, front ends had the feeling I'm describing, though FAR more prounounced.

I test rode a Custom when they first came out, long before I bought this used one.  They feel the same.  So it's not just my bike...

Joe

[rocker59]

I am sure it's the opposite.   

agreed.  a raked out motorcycle falls into turns.

I just Googled it up and I find that the Cal 14 Custom is set up with Rake 32° / Trail 6.1 in.

Googling also found Indian Chief Classic with 29-degrees rake and Chieftan with 25-degrees rake.

I've ridden the Chief and a Cal 14, but not back to back.  I didn't notice the Cal 14 wanting to "fall into turns".

I can say that tire model can make a difference.  I've seen changes to the feeling on other bikes when changing to different tires, with different curvature profiles.

[jbhotchkiss]

The Cali 14 Custom looks like it would fall into slow-speed turns, but indeed does not, in my opinion.  The more I ride my Custom, the more I am amazed at its handling prowess.  And the new Avons made it even better, it seems.

[mjptexas]

  And the new Avons made it even better, it seems.

 :1:

The Avons work very nicely on the Custom.

[LowRyter]

I've test ridden the Custom and Touring models and didn't note an appreciable difference.  I liked everything about both bikes.  The only think I would change would be the foot controls that are smidge too forward. 

[Bud]

I've got a Touring and think it steers well. Test rode a Harley Road King last summer and the steering felt heavy to me in comparison. I also have a 96 Honda Shadow Ace and the steering is much more stable on the Touring. I also had a 750 Gixxer and of course that's apples and banana trees !

[bsanut]

So it seems nobody notices a heavy feeling to the inside bar when making tight turns?  None of my many other motorcycles even come close to the effort.

There's a tire thread on Guzzitech inferring a miracle by installing a 180 rear tire to replace the 200.  Apparently took some coaxing to get it to seat to the likely-too-wide rear rim.  Doesn't sound right to me.

When I have time, I'll drop the forks a tiny bit more, bump up the rear preload, report back.

Joe

[stephenm]

The first few times I rode my 1400T, I did notice a tendency to flop into low speed turns, such as turning slowly into my driveway. I adapted and have never noticed it since. As for steering generally, I find the bike neutral and sweet steering. I fitted a 180 rear after wearing out two 200s and I haven't noticed a difference. The bike steers as sweetly as ever.

Stephen

[bsanut]

Stephen...

You were able to mount the 180 with no issues?  Rim not too wide?

And yeah, once it's moving, it handles very well.

Joe

[stephenm]

You were able to mount the 180 with no issues?  Rim not too wide?

It's a 180/65, and it sits well on the rim.

Stephen

[pete roper]

Mine handled like a heavily laden 'Cruiser' which is exactly what it was. It steered like a D9 dozier and was about as easy to control on anything other than perfect bitumen as bin-bag full of meerkats! It's a Cruiser though and that's what cruisers are and do so no surprises there!

Within its design brief it works as well, if not better, than other offerings in the class but the main thing I learnt from my ownership is I'm not a 'Cruiser' sort of rider. Jude and I both found ourselves wishing we were on the Mana! Despite its smaller size and much more meagre performance.

Pete

[LowRyter]

Pete, you should ride thayyyt biggg new Indian.   My arms aren't long enough to pull the steering lock to lock.

I think the Cali handles better than any V Twin tourer that I've ridden.  The Harley Road Glide was a distant 2nd (then... Victorys, Indians, Harleys, Kaws) .  The Cali wan't meant to compete with the Beemer RT for better or worse.

[bsanut]

That WAY BIG Indian is what I'm buying, a Roadmaster.  Not to replace the Guzzi, but in addition to...

The Indian frame is fundamentally the same as that of the Victory I sold, and at low speeds they both handle better/easier than the Guzzi, imo, despite both being far heavier.  Those handlebars CAN require a reach, however.

At speed, the California is otherwise excellent.

Joe

[father guzzi obrian]

When I had Ropers 1400, I rode it in the canyons, handled fine. I suppose you could easily quicken it up with a look at tire profiles next time change tires. For what it is, it handles fantastic....  I assure you, you will never be passed in the twisty bits by another bike in the class

[George_S]

Joe, I feel exactly as you do. I have the Touring. I expected the issues at parking lot speeds, I used to own a BMW R1200CLC, THAT was a beast, a real dog. But the heaviness feel of the 1400's front end in turns, like on an exit ramp, is unusual to me.

[bsanut]

Joe, I feel exactly as you do. I have the Touring. I expected the issues at parking lot speeds, I used to own a BMW R1200CLC, THAT was a beast, a real dog. But the heaviness feel of the 1400's front end in turns, like on an exit ramp, is unusual to me.

Exactly.  If I figure out how to lighten it up, will post it here.  Surely they changed the geometry of the Eldos for a reason...

Joe

[Zoom Zoom]

Supposedly, the Eldo was changed to compensate for the 16" front wheel. I will refrain from comment on your specific question though as I have the Eldo, and have not ridden either a Touring or Custom to compare differences.

As mentioned, lowering the front by sliding the fork tubes up a bit will lessen the rake. I have been told by those in the know that the Eldo turns in easier than the other two, but I am only repeating what I have been told. It also comes standard with a narrower rear tire/rim.

John Henry

[Groover]

Is the steering falling in as in it wants to turn more than you want it to at low speeds, or is it hard to turn at low speeds meaning you have to put more effort than normal to turn?

Is this an issue with all the 1400 models (Audace, California(s))?

[LowRyter]

I didn't feel any problems at low speed on the bikes. And I was two up with my wife riding through Denver on the Touring bike. 

The only thing I recommend, don't keep it in Fast mode if you don't want your passenger to get shaken like a rag doll, just put it Touring or Rain mode.

[desmo33]

I find that my Touring handles great once it's in motion at anything above a walking pace.  Even at very slow speeds, as long as the engine is pulling, I'm surprisingly comfortable on it given that it is a very different sort of bike than any I have ever owned (almost all sport bikes with clip ons).  I find that lightly dragging the rear brake and slipping the clutch as needed helps a lot with low speed maneuvers by keeping the engine loaded. 

I have enjoyed riding something different because it illuminates elements of the riding experience that I tend to miss while riding more familiar types.

The one aspect of the bike's handling that I'm not totally comfortable with is the transition to/from a stop.  Sometimes it feels perfectly normal to me, other times the bike seems to wander unpredictably just as I come to a stop or just as I pull away.  I'm certain it has something to do with my technique, but that is the one thing I haven't managed to get consistently comfortable with in the 2500 miles or so that I've ridden the bike.  Some days are better than others, and I notice it seems to be worse when I am tired, so I imagine it's related to tensing up and maintaining too tight of a grip.  When I'm mostly relaxed, it seems to handle normally.

I'm running the stock tires with 36 PSI front, 39 rear.

[bsanut]

Is the steering falling in as in it wants to turn more than you want it to at low speeds, or is it hard to turn at low speeds meaning you have to put more effort than normal to turn?

Is this an issue with all the 1400 models (Audace, California(s))?

Steering falls in more than I want.  Not the other.  I feel I have to push on the inside bar in turns, at say, less than 10 mph.

Joe

[George_S]

Steering falls in more than I want.  Not the other.  I feel I have to push on the inside bar in turns, at say, less than 10 mph.

Joe

Groover, that's what I'm feeling too, but I'd say it's also at higher speed than 10. In a tight turn it wants to keep going tighter.

[Groover]

Sounds like maybe the back needs to come down? I'm still unsure that lowering the front is the right direction to compensate for this. Have you had a chance to try with two-up riding? If so, did it help or emphasize the issue?

Sorry, I'm just trying to help and also understand. I know you are trying a bunch of stuff, and some aren't easy to try.