V7 Stone Suspension

[JProdun]

I know this has been discussed at length in multiple threads and all, but I'm just trying to see what are my options (if any) locally or within a shortish couple hour ride.

So I'm looking to upgrade my suspension before I break my back on the NYC roads and with this suspension/seat combo...

I am not exactly the most spirited/sporty/fast rider as I only have a couple thousand miles of riding under my belt (probably equals to a few thousand if you take riding during NYC rush hours almost every day, but still) and I'm only looking for a normal and comfortable (kinda tired of jumping a foot in the air going over an average bump or diving in going over a pothole), not overly fancy, upgrade. Meaning that probably won't feel a difference between a $400 and $1000 shocks... Looking to have a normal and comfortable ride without paying half of what I paid for the bike. That's it.

I would also want to upgrade the forks as these guys dive like crazy under average/hard braking (pretty common occurrence due to local driving habits) or an average lean.

Now, I am mechanically inclined, but have never done a suspension before and would want it properly dialed in once and for all, so would also like to know what's involved in upgrading both front and rear or if there's a place in or around NYC where I could take my bike.

As always, appreciate your input!

I'm 5'10" weighing around 185/190lbs all geared up and have a 31"/32" inseam if that makes a difference.

Thank a lot!

[swordds]

Just a question - have you reduced the pre-load adjustment on the rear shocks, and still find the ride to harsh?  I weigh only 140 lbs and have reduced the pre-load on the rear Springs as much as possible and I find the ride to be much better and almost acceptable, though at some point I will probably opt for softer and even possibly progressive springs (what exactly any advantage those might be I am not sure).

[Vagrant]

what year is it? the 13 has different rears than the 15. 15 has a very big gap in the coils and only one  adj. nut. mine came 2/3 wound tight. I have backed it off 5 full turns and it's almost ok for my 230#.that said it still sucks.

[drawnverybadly]

Hey JP, fellow NYC (Brooklyn and Queens) rider here, you're not gonna find anything for the V7 locally outside of someone doing something totally custom (and expensive), cheap generic shocks are also not easy to find because our shock lengths are longer than most generic stuff. If you ask the 2 local dealers we have for suspension upgrades they'll happily order you something for an enormous upcharge and install it at a rate of $100 an hour.

What I went with was the Matris fork kit up front and Ikon shocks at the rear, the shocks were only a little bit better than stock but the Matris fork kit made the biggest difference for me. Going over expansion joints on the BQE is still unpleasant but the handling feels sooooo much better.

The Ikons were $343 from mgcycle.com
Matris fork kit $360 from guzzitech.com or af1.com
10w fork oil $17 from revzilla.com
If anyone has cheaper prices please chime in

The rear shocks can easily be changed out on the curb with a few tools from a prepackaged mechanics toolbox setup. The front forks took a bit more time, if you have a garage or place you can dedicate for repairs, it's definitely do-able before lunch. I took me pretty much all day to install my fork kit as I followed youtube videos and made a few trips to Pepboys.

I'm 6' 220lbs with a 34 inch inseam, if you want to take a ride on my setup or need help installing stuff just give me a shout.


 

[Kev m]

Hey JP, fellow NYC (Brooklyn and Queens) rider here, you're not gonna find anything for the V7 locally outside of someone doing something totally custom (and expensive), cheap generic shocks are also not easy to find because our shock lengths are longer than most generic stuff. If you ask the 2 local dealers we have for suspension upgrades they'll happily order you something for an enormous upcharge and install it at a rate of $100 an hour.

How about:

http://www.motoborgotaro.com/

[drawnverybadly]

How about:

http://www.motoborgotaro.com/

I've heard lots of good stuff about them but I never been there myself. 
My buddy tried getting his BMW F800GS serviced there and they flat out told him they don't touch modern bikes, but another buddy of mine got all his Ducati Hypermotard farkles installed there no problem. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Devildog]

The BQE is by far the roughest road surface I have ever experienced, towing a heavy boat trailer.....never again.

[kingoffleece]

There's a good dealer in Danbury, CT if you want to ride a bit.

[drlapo]

Call Dave Quinn for a pair of hagon shocks
Light years better than stock

[fossil]

The German brand Wilbers sells worldwide. They have fork springs, fork oil and several good shocks for the V7 series. http://www.wilbers.de/index.php
 And so does Race Tech. http://racetech.com/ProductSearch/2/Moto%20Guzzi/V7/2009-15

[JProdun]

I'm 6' 220lbs with a 34 inch inseam, if you want to take a ride on my setup or need help installing stuff just give me a shout.

Thanks a lot! I'll take on that offer! AF1 is running a sale o the matris kit. Will try ordering. Hopefully it helps!

[sib]

what year is it? the 13 has different rears than the 15. 15 has a very big gap in the coils and only one  adj. nut. mine came 2/3 wound tight. I have backed it off 5 full turns and it's almost ok for my 230#.that said it still sucks.

The '13 Stone's could come with either Sachs or Olle rear shocks and either Marzocchi of Kaifa forks.  My '13 came with Olle and Kaifa, and the ride was somewhat harsh (5'10", 190 lbs).  My '16 Stone also came with Olle and Kaifa (those were the only types installed on the '16).  Somehow, the ride is much smoother than the '13's ride.  Go figure.

[pyoungbl]

Take a look at the Race Tech springs and emulators.  To make adjustments to the emulators you have to take the springs out, not a big deal when you use a magnet on a stick.  I got the .80 springs (lightest ones they offer), 195 lbs without gear.  I'm still not getting the full travel on the forks but darn close.

[JProdun]

Take a look at the Race Tech springs and emulators.  To make adjustments to the emulators you have to take the springs out, not a big deal when you use a magnet on a stick.  I got the .80 springs (lightest ones they offer), 195 lbs without gear.  I'm still not getting the full travel on the forks but darn close.

I've never upgraded front suspension before and therefore looking for something that would drop in without much of anything else. From what i understand Race Tech's kit requires to drill extra holes in the rod on top of your standard upgrade process. I wouldn't be comfortable doing that, plus that would require buying a drill with bits, which I currently don't own...

From what I've researched, people who installed the Matris kit a pretty happy with it. And it's more of a simple install. Haven't bought them yet. Thinking of maybe just buying the springs and adjuster (straight, as suppose to progressive, would do a better job from what i understand) and playing with fork oil weight and spacer. The price would be the same as the sale price they have on af1 right now. So don't see the point really.

I'm 175lbs and roughly $185 all geared up.

[pyoungbl]

The V7 suspension if pretty basic.  It's known as metering rod because the oil has to flow through holes in a hollow tube in order to move as the suspension compresses.  The holes in that hollow tube are a very crude way of dealing with fluid flow.  Better systems use a series of discs that react differently for sudden violent impact (pot hole) as opposed to less violent impact (a dip in the road).  In order to install the RT emulators you need to remove that metering rod and drill out the metering holes.  From what I read you will have to do much the same to install any other system.  Drilling the holes is no big deal, it's getting the darn metering rod out that causes most headaches.  If you have access to an impact wrench that will help lots.  The RaceTech Suspension Bible is a wealth of information.
http://www.amazon.com/Techs-Motorcycle-Suspension-Motorbooks-Workshop/dp/0760331405

You can do all of this with the bike on the center stand...I did use a front stand because I already had one.

This is not a huge project, just time consuming.  The end result is well worth it.  Changing the suspension on my '13 V7 made a world of difference...to the point that I did not sell the bike.

[rss29]

I installed one of those Racetech emulator kits in my V7 forks. I can't say I noticed much improvement. If I were doing it again I would simply go with one of the drop-in kits or maybe just progressive springs, especially considering what a pain it is to remove the damper rods.

[Flea]

Hey guys,

Came across this thread after finally taking enough abuse from the BQE and Belt Parkway expansion joints 

How did everyone make out? I'm running a 13 V7 stone with stock suspension and have considered adjusting the pre-load in hopes that the joints will be much more forgiving, but from what I've read so far, it seems that it won't be much use.

Will follow-up with more data later but at this point, every joint I go over, I get launched off of my seat.

Rider weight: 150 with gear

[malik]

You have tried renewing the fork oil first? It does make a difference - the experts say the oil starts going off after 6 months. And that's before you start playing around with the air gap & oil weights.

[pyoungbl]

If you are getting launched off the seat I suspect that's because the shocks are entirely too stiff.  The springs are stiff in order to mask the rudimentary valving in the OEM shocks.  I have already offered my thoughts in this thread concerning the V7 suspension.  Since the thread started I have taken a 4200 mile trip on my V7.  Much of that trip was in NY (finger lakes region), then across to VT and NH, into ME and north to Canada.  In short, lots of frost heaved roads where my suspension took a beating.  At times I had to slow down because the road surface was total crap.  With that said, I was happy with the V7 suspension.  Ohlins quality...nope, but far better than stock.  Near the end of the trip I finally blew out one of the shock seals so I made the last 500 miles with only one shock actually dampening.  Luckily, the Race Tech shocks can be rebuilt.

For a road bike the V7 is designed with enough suspension travel.  5.12" front, 3.93 rear...not what you would want for off road but enough for most roads.  The problem is that the bike, as it comes from the factory, most likely is not using all of that travel.  You can see for yourself by putting a zip tie on the front fork male slider.  Take a ride and then measure how much that zip tie has moved.  The rear is more of a challenge to measure travel.  About all you can do is measure the sag.  One rule of thumb is to have the bike sag 30% when you are sitting on it.  In this case 30mm or 1.18" difference between when the rear wheel is off the ground and when you are sitting on the bike (off the stand!).  If you cannot get 30mm sag your springs are too tight.  Guzzi does not offer different springs.  A rider weighing 140 is going to feel the problem much more than a rider weighing 240 but even my 195 pound butt was getting launched before I changed the shocks.

[Flea]

You have tried renewing the fork oil first? It does make a difference - the experts say the oil starts going off after 6 months. And that's before you start playing around with the air gap & oil weights.

I haven't changed the fork oil since I've gotten her. Might do it sometime in the next month or so!

If you are getting launched off the seat I suspect that's because the shocks are entirely too stiff.  The springs are stiff in order to mask the rudimentary valving in the OEM shocks.  I have already offered my thoughts in this thread concerning the V7 suspension.  Since the thread started I have taken a 4200 mile trip on my V7.  Much of that trip was in NY (finger lakes region), then across to VT and NH, into ME and north to Canada.  In short, lots of frost heaved roads where my suspension took a beating.  At times I had to slow down because the road surface was total crap.  With that said, I was happy with the V7 suspension.  Ohlins quality...nope, but far better than stock.  Near the end of the trip I finally blew out one of the shock seals so I made the last 500 miles with only one shock actually dampening.  Luckily, the Race Tech shocks can be rebuilt.

For a road bike the V7 is designed with enough suspension travel.  5.12" front, 3.93 rear...not what you would want for off road but enough for most roads.  The problem is that the bike, as it comes from the factory, most likely is not using all of that travel.  You can see for yourself by putting a zip tie on the front fork male slider.  Take a ride and then measure how much that zip tie has moved.  The rear is more of a challenge to measure travel.  About all you can do is measure the sag.  One rule of thumb is to have the bike sag 30% when you are sitting on it.  In this case 30mm or 1.18" difference between when the rear wheel is off the ground and when you are sitting on the bike (off the stand!).  If you cannot get 30mm sag your springs are too tight.  Guzzi does not offer different springs.  A rider weighing 140 is going to feel the problem much more than a rider weighing 240 but even my 195 pound butt was getting launched before I changed the shocks.

Was going to try and adjust the sag on the rear today but got back home just after sun down. Will try and get it done tomorrow and report back.

Thanks!!

[Socalrob]

I just went all in and ordered the fully adjustable Matris Piggybacks.  Not cheap.  I will do the matris forks next.  My wife had a giant shopping spree at Nordstroms (something about triple points and golds shopper status, I really don't want to know too much), so I struck while the iron was hot.

After nearly thirty years of marriage I have learned it pays to listen to the wife.

[spowell]

These guys on Long Island are a authorized K-Tech dealer.

https://www.machmodified.com/

They had a V7 on display at the K-Tech booth at last years mc show at Javits:

http://www.thepicta.com/media/1401811676311000796_13217665

Not an endorsement, never used them for anything, but just an FYI. I have K-Tech shocks on my V7R and I'll probably take them there when they need service.

[kingoffleece]

Hamlin put a set of K-Tec shocks on a V7.  Said the owner was pleased.

[alanp]

I have K-tech shocks on the rear of my Stone and am very pleased.  Huge improvement. So much so that I put the fork upgrade on hold.   

[kingoffleece]

Just a bit more information for you.  It can get a bit involved.
When I first installed custom Ohlins (considered by many to be the top of the line) I found myself getting thrown out of the seat.
I spent hours adjusting, trial runs, measurements, all to a level of satisfaction I was not pleased with.
After getting with suspension expert Hamlin for the day it was determined that the spring rate was too soft for me.  I had made the assumption that the springs were too hard and that was incorrect.

Removed shocks, installed new springs, measured and set sag and then test ride.  Set tension and compression and it's a new bike.
A bit of work?  You bet.  Worth it.  Yep.  That said, it may be too involved for some-I get that 100%.

When I was at a Triumph dealership I had Dave Quinn make some Hagon shocks for customers.  He did a really great job.

[jpv7]

Call Dave Quinn for a pair of hagon shocks
Light years better than stock

+1 they are on my bike now and work well...

[jpv7]

Take a look at the Race Tech springs and emulators.  To make adjustments to the emulators you have to take the springs out, not a big deal when you use a magnet on a stick.  I got the .80 springs (lightest ones they offer), 195 lbs without gear.  I'm still not getting the full travel on the forks but darn close.

the Race Tech solution (springs + emulator) is the cheapest way to get a properly working fork.  Go to their website.  If not updated, the solution for the 40mm Marzocchi is the same.  Order the springs, emulator and oil.  Then email Matt Wiley for settings info.  Then take the forks off and do the mod, or have someone do it for you.  For ME, the difference was amazing.   

[kingoffleece]

Agreed.  Hamlin did a RaceTech front end for my V7.
Works a treat.

[gerryp]

Agreed.  Hamlin did a RaceTech front end for my V7.
Works a treat.

Jim did the same for me on the front and  for me the biturbo's work great on the rear.

[BoatDoc]

It didn't take long on my first ride on my V7II Stornello to realize that the OEM suspension was not going to hack it for me as it was too harsh. The sags were reasonable so it had to be the damping. I'm about 200 lb and do a mixture of something like 10% off pavement, so my fantasy is trying to get the suspension to work on rough surfaces. Having said that, our roads are certainly worse than they used to be so having a dual-sport setup works in the city, too! For me, comfort on rough surfaces is more important than control when dragging the pegs so I like less damping than many.

My first attempt was the custom spec'd dual sport Progressive Shocks from MotoInternational. A noticeable improvement over the OEM, but not enough for me. I contacted Todd at Guzzi Tech and ordered the RaceTech IFP shocks with 20mm more travel and his hybrid (non-air) fork kit. Both were easy to install with the fork emulators dropping in easily. I set the preload for the front and rear sag and away I went. Much improved over the OEM with the harshness almost gone. Both front and back were overdamped for me as set. I ended up dialling all the damping off the shocks and reduced the fluid in the forks by about 5 mm to get a more comfortable ride but not enough to get wallowing. When I change the fork fluid this winter I will drop it a viscosity grade to reduce some of the damping there as well.

The bottom line is that they are enough of an improvement that I really like the bike now on almost all road surfaces. The setup is not equivalent to the full Ohlins treatment I had on my previous bike, but it was half the cost!