Vikings in Canada (Newfoundland) First- No April Fools

[oldbike54]

 I said this before , let's keep this about history and leave politics out of it . Interesting thread , really don't want to nuke it . Thanks .

 Dusty

[Cool Runnings]

Many Native American tribes from the Northeast and Southwest still relate the legends of the red-haired giants and how their ancestors fought terrible, protracted wars against the giants when they first encountered them in North America almost 15,000 years ago.

Others, like the Aztecs and Mayans recorded their encounters with a race of giants to the north when they ventured out on exploratory expeditions.

Who were these red-haired giants that history books have ignored? Their burial sites and remains have been discovered on nearly every continent.

In the United States they have been unearthed in Virginia and New York state, Michigan, Illinois and Tennessee, Arizona and Nevada.



Skull of one of the red haired giants from Lovelock Cave in Nevada. Note the protruding brow ridge and developed occipital. These two skull traits are diagnostic of early Indo European skulls.

Nevada’s Mysterious Cave of The Red-Haired Giants

[oldbike54]

 Sorry , that is nothing more than a legend .

 Dusty

[Cool Runnings]

Sorry , that is nothing more than a legend .

 Dusty

 

The Catastrophe Of 12,000 Years Ago That Erased History

[oldbike54]

The Catastrophe Of 12,000 Years Ago That Erased History

 One more myth .

 Dusty

[boatdetective]

The Mystery of Chaco Canyon   

I was there last October- great experience. The stonework is phenomenal!

[LowRyter]

I don't know about a comet but there was a huge flood from the great lake in the American midwest that flooded much much of the North America and Europe after the ice dam burst. 

It flooded the English Channel and the Black Sea.

[oldbike54]

I don't know about a comet but there was a huge flood from the great lake in the American midwest that flooded much much of the North America and Europe after the ice dam burst. 

It flooded the English Channel and the Black Sea.

 No doubt Mother Nature is capable of some incredible things , but she isn't trying to sell books that tell stories not based in reality .

 Dusty

[Jim Rich]

Have been to Mesa Verde and Canyon de Chay, Chaco is on my bucket list.  Fascinating places. 

[steelby]

I believe Leif Erikson, the son of Erik the Red stumbled upon Newfoundland around 1000 AD.  He left Greenland, got lost, and ended up there, though he didn't really know where "there" was.  They've found evidence of the Viking boats "there", dating to that time, as well as a few markings in stone...

-Cliffy the mailman...

[blackbuell]

When the internet first became a big deal, many educators (like me) were hopeful that it might be a great tool to help bring different peoples of the world together by making fundamental information about history and other areas of knowledge available to a very wide audience, and that this common knowledge might provide a means of improving understanding among us. However, on the contrary, it has enabled people with crazy ideas and conspiracy theories to contact other sympathetic nut-cases to verify that their outlandish notions do have merit.

Jon

[nick949]

the facts ma'am just the facts......

[oldbike54]

the facts ma'am just the facts......

 Or at least a theory based on some rational thought  I once told a guy that had been badgering me for months about area 51 that the USAF did in fact have several UFOs and had been running an alien captive breeding program for years . Fact is , I never got near area 51 , so like everyone else , dunno  Some of the lunacy is my fault 

 PS , Luap had a higher clearance than me , but he ain't talking 

  Dusty

[leafman60]

Okay, we may as well keep kicking this ball on down the road.

Look up Prince Madoc and read about him-


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madoc

[oldbike54]

 Another unsupported piece of mythology . First off , how would Madoc have known where he was , and second , this is based on the idea that the natives of what is now Central and North America were incapable of forming advanced societies .

 Dusty

[boatdetective]

It seems that a lot of wilder theories are strung together by a series of odd bits of coincidental factoids.

In this particular case, I'd start off by trying to establish whether the Welsh had the boat building and navigational tradition to pull this off. The Vikings certainly had this down in spades.  From all I know, the Britons/Celts/etc of the time only had coastal craft.

[boatdetective]

Another unsupported piece of mythology . First off , how would Madoc have known where he was , and second , this is based on the idea that the natives of what is now Central and North America were incapable of forming advanced societies .

 Dusty

Dusty, you close minded heathen. It's in Wikipedia- it must be true.

[oldbike54]

Dusty, you close minded heathen. It's in Wikipedia- it must be true.

 Madoc probably existed , and maybe he found the Isle of Man  But , like Babe Ruth never pointed out the exact trajectory of a homerun , Madoc didn't find Mexico and establish the Aztec cullture 

 Dusty

[donn]

Many Native American tribes from the Northeast and Southwest still relate the legends of the red-haired giants and how their ancestors fought terrible, protracted wars against the giants when they first encountered them in North America almost 15,000 years ago.
...
Note the protruding brow ridge and developed occipital. These two skull traits are diagnostic of early Indo European skulls.

Guido Valvole is waiting for a Neanderthal sighting, so ... for you!  The Neanderthal was all about protruding brow ridge and big occipital region, they were fairly big and they were apex predators in at least parts of their range, so I reckon they would have been real tough customers.  And yes - they had red hair!  or at least, some of them apparently did.

[tpeever]

I was there last October- great experience. The stonework is phenomenal!

That is one of the coolest places I have ever visited anywhere on this earth. Phenomenal.

[Penderic]

Modern day Newfies are very colourful people!!  Great storytellers too!


St. John
 

[rob-mg]

Modern day Newfies are very colourful people!!  Great storytellers too!

St. John
 

Not sure what this has to do with Vikings, but...

What you're saying is precisely the image sold to tourists and ignores the facts that young people continue to leave Newfoundland in droves, that the general level of education is abysmal, and that xenophobia, outside St. John's and arguably Corner Brook, is rampant.

[Penderic]

Nope.

[Orange Guzzi]

Okay, we may as well keep kicking this ball on down the road.

Look up Prince Madoc and read about him-


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madoc

I mentioned this earlier.  There would be a good reason for the travelers to stay in this location.  The Falls of the Ohio was a natural land bridge for the buffalo.  The buffalo traveled thru this area by the millions.  Plenty of fish, oysters, buffalo, hugh hardwood trees, limestone out cropping, caves and water.    There are various artifacts on display in the local library and the Falls of the Ohio State Park museum.  Along with the large rocks used for building construction. 

[leafman60]

Modern day Newfies are very colourful people!!  Great storytellers too!


St. John
 

That picture brings back memories.  That's The Battery area on the harbor entrance, called The Narrows, just below Signal Hill at St. John's NL, the capital.

The view from this area is breath-taking. One way, you see St. Johns and the port, the other way, you see the Atlantic ocean.

When the Titanic sunk, many of the survivors came into this harbor.

On The Narrows, just above the houses at The Battery. In the background is St. John's and the docks.


This is the view out to the Atlantic.  The houses are to the right and below. You can see one in the frame.


This is a view from the atop The Battery, near Signal Hill, looking south across The Narrows at Fort Amherst.

[Chuck in Indiana]

Beautiful, David.. thanks!

[JoeB]

Very interesting. On the lighter side history never really mentions the drinking problem Columbus had.
When he left he didn't know where he was going.
When he got there he didn't know where he was.
When he got back he didn't know where he'd been,
and a woman paid for the whole thing.

[pikipiki]

To include some Guzzi content and as the Americas have already been discovered (by Eric the Red ofcourse), I wondered if we have any Erics on here discovered a Red Guzzi?

[lucydad]

Hmm, love archeology of North America.

Vikings with their superb ships definitely got around, and lots of capability to penetrate inland on rivers. 

Someone mentioned Chaco?  This is home turf for me.  A few years ago I camped a couple nights there (drove in rental mustang).  Chaco, to me, is the holy grail of Anasazi culture, the epicenter.  Go check out Chimney Rock, in Colorado for another superb experience, views and ruins.  It is a Chaco outlier.

When growing up in Durango, CO I found arrowheads, and some Anasazi pottery in our backyard, and down the hill in an old glacial outflow lake remainder.  There are ruins and pictographs all over the place, if you know where to look.  My elementary school in Durango, when built in the 1950s tripped on multiple Anasazi and later Ute burial grounds:  caused quite an issue.  Remains were moved after blessings of Southern and Mountain Ute tribes.  The playground was built right on top of the site, and yes we found pottery here and there.

To me, the really exciting archeology is shallow marine areas where now submerged civilizations have remains.  Sea level has risen steadily the past 30,000 years with glacial cycles.  Sooner or later there will be an astounding discovery.  When we lived in Tunis, Tunisia, the old Roman naval port remains could be viewed, and the docks are now all submerged about eight feet under.  They were occupied from the original Carthaginian naval base built BC 300 or so.  There are punic and Phoenician bases all throughout the Mediterranean at good anchorage points, each about a two day sail spaced, with fresh water (at the time).  Climate change in North Africa has silted up, and dried out most original sources of fresh water.  Lots of change in 2000 years....

I could go on and on....

[Guido Valvole]

Low Ryter and Cool Runnings -- when the glacial ice melted in a big way around 10-12,000 years ago it produced massive floods very quickly, at least in North America. Maybe filled in the Mediterranean also? Thereby giving birth to lots of legends around the world. Lots of evidence in the Scablands of Eastern Washington and Oregon.

I'm not familiar with Lovelock Cave, but the skull's brow ridges look within normal for current humans. Shapes vary plenty. Neanderthals were, if I'm remembering correctly, rather short and wide, 3/4-scale football linemen. And not a "different species" since they and "modern" H. Sap interbred successfully, just a different body type.

Given damage done by glaciation we'll probably never know what was happening in the Western Hemisphere during previous interglacial periods. Or the rest of the world for that matter, outside of the tropics and Australia. So it's open season for conjecture and fantasy  .
cr