NGC - Subaru CVT Transmissions

[guzzi4me]

In 1969 Consumer Reports did a review of the Subaru 360 that is the mother of all negative reviews.  It's worth reading at http://www.mysubaru360.com/manuals_and_documents/Subaru_360_Consumer_Reports_April_69.pdf

I especially like the summary sentence:  "It was a pleasure to squirm out of the Subaru, slam the door and walk away."

That was 47 years ago! Now Subaru is one of the highest rated for safety and customer satisfaction.

Subaru owners expect to get 150k miles without problems, and many do. A co-worker has a 2007 Subaru that just passed 300k. No issues and has just performed normal maintenance.

The reliability and safety reports is what steered me to consider the Outback.

Are they the perfect vehicle? Of course not. But this has been the best car that we have bought. A lot better than our last 2 Chrysler Sebrings which always had one thing or another going wrong.

How well will the CVT hold up? who knows. Haven't heard of any problems yet. Subaru has a history of standing beside their product so I am not going to worry about it.

Do like having the 3.6 engine though! Nice to have plenty of power.

Jeff

[oldbike54]

 Yeah , I owned several 1950' s and '60's Triumph motorbikes . Oil leaking , vibratory , Lucas electrics, yep , that keeps me from buying a modern Triumph . Oh , a service buddy owned a Honda 600 car , what a POC , that alone keeps me from owning a modern Honda anything 

 Dusty

[Cool Runnings]

And it's about as applicable to the models of the last few decades as BMW Isetta is to any 3-series.

Subaru owners are a sensitive bunch, they tend to be very loyal to the brand and generally speaking think they are getting something special at a good price (maybe they are)? Now if I was living in a mountainous area with lot's of snow, it would be a good choice for me (AWD is a must). The Subaru with the CVT is not only slow, they sound just awful to-boot, otherwise a nice capable car that comes standard with AWD at a price under 30k. The six cylinder model is low on horsepower and is somewhat a drinker (to-boot). 

[oldbike54]

That was 47 years ago! Now Subaru is one of the highest rated for safety and customer satisfaction.

Subaru owners expect to get 150k miles without problems, and many do. A co-worker has a 2007 Subaru that just passed 300k. No issues and has just performed normal maintenance.

The reliability and safety reports is what steered me to consider the Outback.

Are they the perfect vehicle? Of course not. But this has been the best car that we have bought. A lot better than our last 2 Chrysler Sebrings which always had one thing or another going wrong.

How well will the CVT hold up? who knows. Haven't heard of any problems yet. Subaru has a history of standing beside their product so I am not going to worry about it.

Do like having the 3.6 engine though! Nice to have plenty of power.

Jeff

 So Jeff , are ya tired of that under powered gas hog yet ?   Sorry for advising to buy a Subaru 

 Dusty

[Cool Runnings]

So Jeff , are ya tired of that under powered gas hog yet ?   Sorry for advising to buy a Subaru 

 Dusty

3.6

Horsepower (Net @ RPM): 256 @ 6000
Torque (Net @ RPM): 247 @ 4400

 

[oldbike54]

3.6

Horsepower (Net @ RPM): 256 @ 6000
Torque (Net @ RPM): 247 @ 4400

 

 Yes ... and ? Dude , this is a Guzzi board , we are more into usable power than peak figures at crazy RPM's .

 Dusty

[Kev m]

Meh, I've driven my Subarus through some hellacious conditions (blizzards, snow, ice, heavy rains) and they have been rock solid in the worst.

That alone makes them worth it.

[Cool Runnings]

Meh, I've driven my Subarus through some hellacious conditions (blizzards, snow, ice, heavy rains) and they have been rock solid in the worst.

That alone makes them worth it.

U R loyal to the brand.

[oldbike54]

Meh, I've driven my Subarus through some hellacious conditions (blizzards, snow, ice, heavy rains) and they have been rock solid in the worst.

That alone makes them worth it.

 Yep . Funny thing about these under powered 3.6 Subarus , the perform about like a 383 Road Runner 

 Dusty

[Cool Runnings]

Yep . Funny thing about these under powered 3.6 Subarus , the perform about like a 383 Road Runner 

 Dusty

Over 7 seconds 0-60 ain't no 383 pops! 

[calfruit]

Kev---yes you are correct about the reverse/drive thing. However at this age-- the hand can be quicker then the brain. The result can be  quite loud, much different then a not CVT trans.

[Arizona Wayne]

I don't like the looks of Subarus and hearing when a head  gasket blows you have to pull the whole motor to fix it isn't neat either. 

[oldbike54]

Over 7 seconds 0-60 ain't no 383 pops! 

 Au contraire Mon frere , an automatic equipped 383 RR was capable of 0 to 60 in about 7 seconds , with 1/4 mile times in the mid 15's . Just about where a 3.6 Subaru slots in .

 Dusty

[POP0404]

I have a 2015, 3.6 litre Subaru Outback with the CVT. I am very happy with the car and CVT transmission. after 15,000 km's it is smooth and easy to drive.

The 3.6l does not have the same grunt as my old WRX but has plenty of horses for highway driving and towing. Surprisingly I get better fuel economy with the Outback than my old WRX.

The only fault with the car is my wife seems to have claimed it as hers...... So I have to ride the Norge...

 

[guzzi4me]

So Jeff , are ya tired of that under powered gas hog yet ?   Sorry for advising to buy a Subaru 

 Dusty

Good input from you Dusty! Happy we bought it. Plenty of power for us and the way it handles the snow and slippery conditions is amazing.
And it's blue....Laurie's favorite color. Everyone knows the blue ones are the fastest!

Jeff

[blackcat]

We just took a 2,300 mile trip in our 3.6 and we averaged 25mpg which I think is pretty good for that size engine with AWD.

[Arizona Wayne]

We just took a 2,300 mile trip in our 3.6 and we averaged 25mpg which I think is pretty good for that size engine with AWD.

That's what I get w/my `01 Toyota Rav4 2L 4 spd. auto.  @ 70 mph.  Get 65 mpg on my 400 MP3 loaded(900#) @ 65 mpg. 

[blackcat]

That's what I get w/my `01 Toyota Rav4 2L 4 spd. auto.  @ 70 mph.  Get 65 mpg on my 400 MP3 loaded(900#) @ 65 mpg. 

Yeah well, we get 48mpg in our 05 Prius with 120,000 miles on the clock. More, if I slow down on the freeway but why bother?

[GuzziChris]

At 127k miles, my WRX drives and feels as good if not better than the day I bought it in late 2010. Only upgrade was a solid flywheel clutch at 120k. I paid 26k(n/inc taxes and what not), and I'm getting $15k on a trade, so effectively $16k if you consider the taxes I avoid on my next purchase. To me, that all speaks pretty highly of the brand, so I needed no assurance on that. It's the CVT that I question, I'm going to test drive with the wife tomorrow, so I'll chime in with my impressions. I'm going to try both a Forester and an Outback.
Oh, nasty snowstorm in northern CT today, roads were awful. My Rex never slipped or complained, not even the slightest bit...   
Yeah, I HATE to move on from the WRX, but needs change and it only makes sense for me.

[blackbuell]

I bought a '14 outback with the 4C engine and CVT tranny two years ago; it now has 35K miles on it, and some of those miles are on nasty rock/dirt roads in the mountains of NM and SW Colorado. My last vehicle for camping and biological field research was a Ford Explorer; the outback seems just as sturdy on the 4 wheel drive roads, plus it gets much better gas mileage (31 mph highway vs. 21) and it is more nimble. I no longer haul students out west with me, so the reduced carrying capacity from the Ford is no big deal. So far I'm happy with the Subaru; no problems yet and don't anticipate any based on discussions I've had with folks I know who have owned them for years.

Jon

[old as dirt 2]

Over 7 seconds 0-60 ain't no 383 pops! 

lets do this. I put our subie against your 383 any time in the snow, rain, mountain twistys dirt roads and the 1/4 mile. he who wins in the most conditions wins and the other has to sell their ride for half value.

[oldbike54]

lets do this. I put our subie against your 383 any time in the snow, rain, mountain twistys dirt roads and the 1/4 mile. he who wins in the most conditions wins and the other has to sell their ride for half value.

 Yeah , and try turning on the AC in that Road Runner 

 Dusty

[Kev m]

U R loyal to the brand.

Yes, but not so much that I'm blind to other brands.

I buy what I like, and often unique vehicles in terms of mechanics and/or styling.

I've had 4 Subarus, but also 4 Jeeps, I've had Chevy's but wouldn't turn my nose up at a Ford or Dodge. I cross-shopped the Taco and Colorado with the current Wrangler.

I've had a Mini Cooper S and a turbo Beetle and a Juke along with a Baja and a Tracker.

Of course I was also spoiled by a decade of access to vehicle press fleets too.

So I'm loyal like I am to Guzzi, but that doesn't mean I only buy a Scoobie or Guzzi.

[Arizona Wayne]

Yeah well, we get 48mpg in our 05 Prius with 120,000 miles on the clock. More, if I slow down on the freeway but why bother?

Yeah well, I get 65 mpg w/my `00 MuZ 660 single @ 65 mpg @ 70 mph, and 70 mpg w/my 250 MP3 @ 65 mpg, 50 mpg w/my `04 750 Breva 2up & loaded @ 65 mph, etc.   But you do get to go further between fillups, I think.   For mpg I have MCs/scooters.  For other things, I have cars/trucks. 

[rboe]

Wouldn't hurt to check out the Subaru forums to see what sort of CVT complaints are out there.

truedelta.com will also reflect real owner feed back on repairs.

[Zoom Zoom]

<snip>
Oh, nasty snowstorm in northern CT today, roads were awful. My Rex never slipped or complained, not even the slightest bit...   
Yeah, I HATE to move on from the WRX, but needs change and it only makes sense for me.

As you may have already found out, the 12+ Impreza also gained 5 inches of front door making entry and exit a bit easier. The stick models use a 50/50 split for front to rear bias with a viscous coupling. The CVT models use an electronic coupling of some sort. Unless needed for traction, it is mostly front wheel drive. In the three and one half years I have never noticed the torque redistributing from front to back. The power distribution is seamless and works very well. Driving on slippery surfaces is possibly better than it was with my '03 REX. Eventually, I scored a set of wheels and have added winter tires to the mix. The car goes from great in the snow to freekin' awsome! I have followed many vehicles equipped with some form or another of 4 or all wheel drive over the last three years. Just watching the vehicle as I follow, it is obvious they are struggling. Not me. Subaru really does have one of the best AWD systems on the market.

As mentioned in another recent thread, the Subi CVT uses a metal belt in the transmission. I am not aware of any issues that would indicate a fundamental flaw in the design. I have heard of one or two failing, but there are many of these on the road in various Subaru models so I don't think there is a problem with them. 

As for power, it is not a muscle car. It does ok though. I have no trouble getting up to speed for merging. Passing is no trouble either. Power is adequate for a DD. City traffic is also a non issue. Mashing the pedal does not seem to do as well as the proper application of power. It is almost as if the traction control is intervening. It is hard to describe, but driving one would make it clear.

Handling: It wasn't bad, but cheaply and easily made better. I added an STI rear sway bar, (3mm bigger than the stock bar), and a strut tower brace. It handles well. RSB took maybe 1/2 hour to install. STB about the same.

As much as I loved the REX, I don't miss it as much as I thought I might. As I said earlier, I was in exactly the same boat as you. Trade it, in very good condition, or drive it into the ground.

Although I have an excellent driving record, insurance went down on the car by nearly 50% compared to the 10 year old REX. Fuel economy is markedly better and I can feed it regular instead of premium.

That folks, leaves me with more money to spend on the Guzzi's. (Guzzi content)

John Henry     

[Zoom Zoom]

A couple other items: The new (12+) 2L now uses a chain rather than a timing belt. No longer does it require service. Early on, there were lots or reports of oil consumption, but that has died down it seems. I have not experienced any oil consumption issues on either the '13 I had or the '14 I have.

As for the head gasket issue mentioned in another reply, that has mostly been attributed to poor cooling system maint. causing excessive corrosion in the system. But, I never had any trouble with any of the ones I have owned.

John Henry

[GuzziChris]

Thanks John, I very much appreciate your perspective.

[steven c]

 I really like my 12 Forester 5 speed except for paint that chips when you look at it and using 2 quarts of oil every 5k oil change. Its handy ,I can load it up for camping and it will hustle down a back road better then a small SUV should.

[pehayes]

As for the head gasket issue mentioned in another reply, that has mostly been attributed to poor cooling system maint. causing excessive corrosion in the system.

Not so.  It was definitely poor design of the gasket or head or both.  I've owned two outbacks.  '98 was passed down to a teenage son and rapidly destroyed.  '02 is still in my driveway at 160K.  Check on the Internet.  Flooded with reports of head gasket coolant leaks from about 2000 to 2004 or thereabouts.  I had head gasket failures at 60K and again at 110K.  First time was covered under warranty while the second was on my dime.  Ouch!  You do have to remove motor mounts and tilt the engine sideways by 45 degrees to take off one head.  Tilt the other way to do the second head. 

Otherwise it has been a wonderful car.  Like a train on rails in wet weather.

BTW, easiest car I've ever owned for routine lube maintenance.  Oil plug and filter are accessible directly below by removing a small, plastic panel.  No need for ramps, jacks, etc.  Two hand tools and a couple of rags and we're back on the road.

Patrick Hayes
Fremont CA