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Author Topic: It's a frame up  (Read 8653 times)

Online Huzo

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It's a frame up
« on: April 15, 2016, 03:59:15 AM »
As I've mentioned before I've learned a fair bit about some aspects of my Norge but when it comes to other Guzzis I'm pretty clueless. Can some one tell me what's the difference between a Tonti frame, Spine frame, Loop frame or any other variants of relatively modern Guzzis?
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Online tazio

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Re: It's a frame up
« Reply #1 on: April 15, 2016, 04:22:21 AM »
No.
But let me tell you all about the center of gravity  :cool:
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Online tazio

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Re: It's a frame up
« Reply #2 on: April 15, 2016, 04:25:18 AM »
 :laugh:
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Online Huzo

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Re: It's a frame up
« Reply #3 on: April 15, 2016, 04:37:46 AM »
Quote from: tazio on April 15, 2016, 04:22:21 AM
No.
But let me tell you all about the center of gravity  :cool:
Ok Taz, always eager to learn
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Offline Muzz

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Re: It's a frame up
« Reply #4 on: April 15, 2016, 05:43:46 AM »
 :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:

I think I know roughly but then, I am not a big block man so I will wait for the experts.

I THINK the smallblock frame is a modified Tonti. Correct me if I am wrong.
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Offline Waltr

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Re: It's a frame up
« Reply #5 on: April 15, 2016, 05:55:54 AM »
There is a book for such things: Guzziology
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Online fotoguzzi

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Re: It's a frame up
« Reply #6 on: April 15, 2016, 06:51:08 AM »
Loop frame= V700, Ambo, Eldo..
Tonti (design by Lino Tonti) =V7 sport, Convert, 850t & T3, 1000SP, cal2... Gen2 Tonti= Cal 3, Cal1100, EV etc..
Spine frame = V11 Sport & Lemans.. also 1100 Sport, Centauro, Daytona.
don't know what the frame is called on the new Cal 1400's.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2016, 07:25:27 AM by fotoguzzi »
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Offline Chuck in Indiana

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Re: It's a frame up
« Reply #7 on: April 15, 2016, 07:11:45 AM »
Quote from: Muzz on April 15, 2016, 05:43:46 AM
:popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:

I think I know roughly but then, I am not a big block man so I will wait for the experts.

I THINK the smallblock frame is a modified Tonti. Correct me if I am wrong.

Tonti designed the smallblock frame, too.. so it's a Tonti as well as the big block frame.  :smiley:
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Offline John A

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Re: It's a frame up
« Reply #8 on: April 15, 2016, 07:37:29 AM »
Didn't  The Lone Ranger ride with Tonti?  :grin: :evil:
Fixed it!
« Last Edit: April 17, 2016, 06:35:49 PM by John A »
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Re: It's a frame up
« Reply #9 on: April 15, 2016, 07:39:50 AM »
Quote from: John A on April 15, 2016, 07:37:29 AM
Didn't  Tonti ride with the Lone Ranger? :grin: :grin: 🏍

 You have that backwards  :laugh:

 Dusty
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Online Huzo

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Re: It's a frame up
« Reply #10 on: April 15, 2016, 04:21:05 PM »
Quote from: John A on April 15, 2016, 07:37:29 AM
Didn't  Tonti ride with the Lone Ranger? :grin: :grin: 🏍
Oh Signor, do we have to leave all of our good friends so soon ? Only 'till next week, HI HO SIVER ! AWAY............!!!!!
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Offline Testarossa

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Re: It's a frame up
« Reply #11 on: April 15, 2016, 04:26:04 PM »
Loop frame was the original V-twin frame -- its major elements were curving tubes that cradled the engine.

Tonti designed a lighter, stiffer frame using straight tubes with shorter runs.

Spine frame is shorter and lighter still and makes the engine a stressed member with no frame tubes underneath. It's literally a spine above the engine from the steering head to the swingarm pivots.
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Online Huzo

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Re: It's a frame up
« Reply #12 on: April 15, 2016, 04:44:06 PM »
Thanks Testarossa and others, that's been a help.
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Online pehayes

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Re: It's a frame up
« Reply #13 on: April 15, 2016, 09:11:14 PM »
The 'loopframe' is named for the continuous, horizontal 'loop' which forms the back end of the frame for supporting the rear of the seat and fender. Apart from the swingarm, the loopframe is all one welded-up unit with numerous curved portions.



The Tonti frame uses only straight pieces in its welded up section.  The engine and transmission are further supported by lower frame rails not evident in this picture.

http://knifemaker.smugmug.com/Motorcycles/Moto-Guzzi-V7-Sport/i-r8tdzs2/0/S/V7-Sprot-021sts-S.jpg

Patrick Hayes
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Online Huzo

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Re: It's a frame up
« Reply #14 on: April 16, 2016, 02:49:05 AM »
Quote from: pehayes on April 15, 2016, 09:11:14 PM
The 'loopframe' is named for the continuous, horizontal 'loop' which forms the back end of the frame for supporting the rear of the seat and fender. Apart from the swingarm, the loopframe is all one welded-up unit with numerous curved portions.



The Tonti frame uses only straight pieces in its welded up section.  The engine and transmission are further supported by lower frame rails not evident in this picture.

http://knifemaker.smugmug.com/Motorcycles/Moto-Guzzi-V7-Sport/i-r8tdzs2/0/S/V7-Sprot-021sts-S.jpg

Patrick Hayes
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Will my Mk 2 Le Mans have the same frame as the red one in your kink ?
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Offline Testarossa

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Re: It's a frame up
« Reply #15 on: April 16, 2016, 11:42:10 AM »
Quote
Will my Mk 2 Le Mans have the same frame as the red one in your kink ?

Essentially, yes. Main differences may be in the bolt-on lower rails (under the sides of the engine), because the sidestands may differ.
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Offline redrider90

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Re: It's a frame up
« Reply #16 on: April 16, 2016, 04:32:34 PM »
Quote from: oldbike54 on April 15, 2016, 07:39:50 AM
You have that backwards  :laugh:


 Dusty

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Online Huzo

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Re: It's a frame up
« Reply #17 on: April 16, 2016, 11:03:07 PM »
Ok thanks again guys, at least I'm gaining some traction here.
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Offline Chuck in Indiana

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Re: It's a frame up
« Reply #18 on: April 17, 2016, 11:29:22 AM »
Ok, the spine frame. In the 80s to be very brief, a dentist (Dr. John) was quite successful campaigning a Guzzi, basically a Lemans 1000 (Tonti frame) A collaborative effort with Guzzi ended up being the Daytona winning spine frame. From that, Guzzi built the 1100 Sport, Daytona, Centauro, and V11 sport, the last *real* Guzzi.  :evil: :smiley:
Here's the frame of a very early 1100 Sport.. Dr. John's race bike much in evidence. You can see how the engine/transmission is a stressed member.
Belle, the Guzzi Dawg looks on.. :smiley:
2016-04-17_12-14-31 by Charles Stottlemyer, on Flickr
Edit: My steam powered ISP has been driving me craz(ier)
« Last Edit: April 17, 2016, 11:32:21 AM by Chuck in Indiana »
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Chuck in (Elwood) Indiana/sometimes SoCal
 
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Offline Testarossa

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Re: It's a frame up
« Reply #19 on: April 17, 2016, 12:25:04 PM »
There's a story that Dr John borrowed his spine frame design from an English custom builder named Tony Foale.
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Gone: 59 Piper Comanche 250, 69 Harley/Aermacchi 350SS, 71 Honda CB500/4, 74 Laverda 750 SF2, 91 Suzuki VX800, 50cc two-stroke scoot, 83 XR350R

Offline cruzziguzzi

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Re: It's a frame up
« Reply #20 on: April 19, 2016, 10:36:18 AM »
OK - A loop is for people who distrust a motorcycle who's engine is not "wrapped" by a frame.

A Tonti is for people who believe that curves in a frame lead to diminished handling and straight frame member are simply more trustworthy.

A "Spine" is for people who believe that frames in general are over rated (where's our monocoque Goose!), love to say "stressed member" - which we'll leave to the Freudians to fight over - and have always believed that the Guzzi engine should shine over and above all other componentry.  We'll ignore the "pork chop" for now, though I do think it is exquisite, if, it is properly HOLLOW!

Now then. What the hell's goin' on with that Griso!?! :evil:


Todd.
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