V7 II Stuttering, stalling

[beetle]

No payment required. I need a US tester, and that may require your patience and perseverance. Thusly I am indebted to you.

[Gunnar]

Hi,

I was wondering if you have managed to fix the mapping problems?

I have very similar problems with my European V7 II Stone. It stalls when I ride down a hill to my house in a low gear, as soon as I pull the clutch. It will Stutter at startup after I get back on it after a break like a lunch stop. Apart from this the bike always runs nice and smooth. I was hoping that an upgrade to the latest factory mapping would sort the problems that I have had since the bike was new nearly a year ago, but the re-mapping did nothing at all. I had the bike in at the dealer again this week and they confirmed that the problems I have are due to the mapping, but the factory will not support it or trouble shoot it at all because I have added after market pipes to it. I could put the original pipes back on and take it back to the dealer as the problem was exactly the same with the original pipes, but my dealer is 2 hours away and I really doubt that the factory would change the mapping for one bike only.

If there is any way of altering the mapping DIY with the use of Guzzi Diag I would be very interested in doing so. I did hook the bike up to Guzzi Diag last week to confirm that the mapping had actually been updated, but for some reason I was unable to load a copy of the mapping onto my computer with the IAWMIUG3Reader_V0.0 4. I will try this again within the next couple of days.

Any info from you experts would be highly appreciated.

Gunnar

[waxi]

Hi to everyone!

I'm long time reader, but posting first time. We've been having Guzzi's for quite some time in our garage (fathers Nevada and California). I don't know why, but I'm in love with them. Last year I've bought brand new V7 II Special (I am from Europe, Slovenia btw). This is my first EFI bike.

I am having all problems you guys described in previous posts. From the start I thought that I just need to get used to it. Then I thought that this problems will go away when engine break-in will be finished and first, 1000km service will be done. Wrong. They are glued to this bike.

From the factory it came with apparently very bad map 4533V795 (http://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=79115.0). Then after a few months I got an email from my Guzzi dealer that a map update is available. It was 4533V796. I can't tell you how happy I was at the time. Went to a 2 hour long jurney to get map updated. And what now? Nothing. Cold stalling is somehow reduced, but it's still there. You have to be very gentle with the clutch and add quite some throttle. BTW, I am always trying to warm it up, but there are situations that I just can't wait. When I am at work for example, I have to drive somehow cold bike uphill from the parking garage... what a project.

I must admit that I have already dropped it because of this (luckilly, I got only a little scratch on the exhaust). What happend? I was trying to park on a hilly road, there was sand, and I had steering all the way to the right. Then it stalled and died (still in gear of course). I just didn't have strenght to hold it. Grrrrrrrr... what an embarrassment. 

Also, like the Gunnar said. If you drive from very steep hill in first gear and you pull the clutch it dies. Apparently the ECU is to slow to realise that it should add gas.

What to do? I am still in warranty for one year, but I don't expect much from the dealer. Can you guys help me? At this point money is no problem... I just want my bike to run as it should. Can this be solved with custom map from beetle (http://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=82864.0)? I'll have OBD cables here in a day or two (already read GuzziDiag tutorial). In case of warranty return... can dealer find out that custom map was there if I write back official one? Can maps be switched as many times I like? Is there anything else that should be done after map change? When you have to do TPS reset and autolearning parameters reset?

Sorry for long post and a lot of (maybe stupid) questions.

I really, and I mean really appreciate any response from you guys,

Thank you, Matej

[pete roper]

Get Guzzidiag up and running, sort out reader and writer, put dBk killers in pipes, buy Beetlemap and load. Bye bye problem.

Pete

[rocker59]

Thought I might be out of gas, since the fuel light came on, so I stopped and got gas. Filled up
with 3.910 gallons, meaning I STILL had 1.6 gallons left. I have no idea why
the light came on so early. 

Anyone got any ideas/thoughts?
 

I think the fuel light coming on was a coincidence.  I also think that the light is coming on about the same as other Guzzis. 

What mileage did you light previously come on? 

Every Guzzi I've ridden has the light come on with about 3.8 gallons consumed...

[sign216]

Waxi,

So, is the essence of your problem poor running when cold?

I'm trying to get at the real issue, so we can think of solutions.

Joe

[pete roper]

The issue is that the cold start and air temp correction tables are up the sh*t.

[waxi]

Get Guzzidiag up and running, sort out reader and writer, put dBk killers in pipes, buy Beetlemap and load. Bye bye problem.

Pete

Pete, what do you mean with dBk killers? Exhaust is completely stock Lafranconi... Also, is with map from Beetle Lambda sensor automatically disabled? If I upload official one is Lambda re-activated?

Waxi,

So, is the essence of your problem poor running when cold?

I'm trying to get at the real issue, so we can think of solutions.

Joe

Yes Joe, when engine is at operating temperature everything is as it should be. But this excludes steep hill-clutch-dead engine problem. This one remains.

I'm very sorry to be pain in the ass, but can someone explain to me the following questions? -> Can dealer find out that custom map was there if I write back official one (in case of warranty claim)? Can maps be switched as many times I like or something can get broken? Is there anything else that should be done after map change? When you have to do TPS reset and autolearning parameters reset?

I buy a beer to all of you guys 

Thank you, Matej

[beetle]

Also, is with map from Beetle Lambda sensor automatically disabled?

Yes.

If I upload official one is Lambda re-activated?

Yes.

Can dealer find out that custom map was there if I write back official one (in case of warranty claim)?

No.

Can maps be switched as many times I like or something can get broken?

You can swap,out maps as often as you like. You will not break anything.

Is there anything else that should be done after map change? When you have to do TPS reset and autolearning parameters reset?

We don't reset the TPS on a V7-II. We reset the autolearning parameters, and if necessary, relearn the throttle position.

[pete roper]

As Mark says, the system is slightly different on the MUIG3 to the W5AM controller bikes and its this that leads me to describe them as 'Semi' RBW. While the cables still go to the TB I remain unconvinced that the opening of the butterfly is directly cable controlled.

Why? Firstly because, even though there is a stepper motor, the idle seems to 'flutter' far more than any AOI system I've ever dealt with. Secondly there is this 'Throttle Self Learning' feature which is common to all the WM RBW systems and it MAKES THE SAME NOISE as all the other RBW systems when they do the Self Learning. OK, I know that isn't terrifically scientific but all we can do is go on what we learn because, lets face it, we get sweet FA from the factory or WM because we are treated as drongos!

My Feeling is that the Stepper is there only to try and stabilise idle when cold. It does that but all of the 'Oh I have to let it warm up while I put my helmet and gloves on' bollocks is down to the crappy warm up and temp correction tables! Note that people, once they get their bikes started, say it'll idle but its when they try and load it up it all falls in a screaming heap!

Once you reach a certain point of either time or temperature you can see by using PADS, probably GD too, the lambda correction kick in and start the usual stupidness of trimming out the fuel until the motor will barely run, (This really, really, isn't helping the planet I don't believe and I'm 'Greener' than a very green thing!). Once that happens the stepper becomes irrelevant and I think, at least at idle and low RPM, the throttle plate will be controlled by some sort of servo.

Look, I may be quite wrong. But those factors really make me think that it isn't a purely mechanical system but one that, pretty crudely, operates to meet flawed emissions guidelines and does so fairly well if you overlook the crappy warm up and temp correction tables.

At the end of the day there is no reason why any MUIG3 equipped bike need run like a sack of sh*t.

Pete

[waxi]

Beetle (I think that is Mark) and Pete for the president 

As far as I understand I have nothing to lose. I don't know why I have waited that long anyway.

Mark, this is the one, right? http://griso.fetchapp.com/sell/e28ca3f3. Can I expect any refinements or this is it (according to http://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=82864.0)?

Will order it when I come home from work...

[beetle]

That's the one for stock exhaust. Same map.

It'll run just like Craig says it will.

[waxi]

If I understand correctly, the modified map is from Australian bike? Can we expect any differences in running because of (probably) different petrol octane rating? We have 95 and 100 available. Using 95 though...

[beetle]

Can we expect any differences in running because of (probably) different petrol octane rating?

No.

[pete roper]

You may find Mark's and my replies blunt. Sometimes they need to be. 

Pete

[waxi]

You may find Mark's and my replies blunt. Sometimes they need to be. 

Pete

Right. I just want to be sure that I won't damage anything. I'm not shi*ting money...

[beetle]

You may find Mark's and my replies blunt. Sometimes they need to be.

I'd prefer the term 'succinct'.



Waxi, you won't hurt anything. If you have any concerns, Gunnar is running a custom version of the aftermarket exhaust map in his bike. Please touch base with him to allay any concerns.

[pete roper]

None of us my friend, if we were we'd be carried everywhere by well oiled Nubian slaves in guilded litters!

There are a lot of benefits to being dull and ordinary....

Pete

[waxi]

There are a lot of benefits to being dull and ordinary....

Well, apparently I am weird since I don't know how this works. Thanks.

Mark, thank you for the map. Will try and give feedback. If I may...

[oldbike54]

I'd prefer the term 'succinct'.



Waxi, you won't hurt anything. If you have any concerns, Gunnar is running a custom version of the aftermarket exhaust map in his bike. Please touch base with him to allay any concerns.

 Mark , I notice a new sig line . Are you officially in the business of custom maps now ? If so , well ,

                                                     It's about time mate 

 Dusty

[beetle]

Mark, thank you for the map. Will try and give feedback. If I may...

Please do. I welcome all feedback, good and bad. I've nothing to hide. BTW, I am working with Gunnar to fix the downhill stalling issue.

[beetle]

Are you officially in the business of custom maps now ?

I've been building custom maps for quite a while. I've only just recently 'advertised' the fact. If adding a link in my sig counts.

[waxi]

I'm back 

Cable from Lonelec arrived and everything went as it should uploading Mark's map on my V7 II. Instructions in his mail were nice and simple ("Throttle" reading was 0.8 so I had to reset autolearning parameters and trigger throttle self-learning).

My findings are similar to Clancy's. Bike runs a lot smoother. Also, as he said, the point of most enjoyable RPM's is a little higher. I have tested starting up to a hill and bike feels quite more "powerful"... no problems here anymore. On the other side (of a hill) it still died when clutch was pulled from first gear, but ok, we are familiar with that. When riding at steady speed of 50km/h engine was very calm. No problems here either. Biggest difference in smoothness I noticed at the point when engine is not pulling but also not breaking. It runs much better and without "jumping". So, nothing but praise.

I was looking at the GuzziDiag parameters quite a while (btw, is there any "manual" that explains them all?) with engine running. It seems that idle is much richer, because it smelled like frying potatoes 

Anyway... Mark, could you explain why left Lambda is still reading voltage since it's disabled?





Also, there is this fault constantly present: P0611: invalid signal. Anyone familiar with it?

Mark, thank you. If there is anything than I can contribute to new maps just let me know.

[waxi]

Forgot to tell that I did relatively short ride. Will write back if anything new comes up...

[oldbike54]

 Mark's maps always work 

 Dusty

[Jim C]

Well, this just sucks!! Found the connector behind the air box, but also realized that the cable I received from Loneloc is too narrow to go over the MG connector, so no new MAP for me.

Sent an email to Loneloc as well, so here's hoping that there's some kind of solution to this.

Jim

[pete roper]

Mark was over in Canberra yesterday fighting with some obtuse and recalcitrant bit of medical equipment and dropped over to Bunged End to pick up The World's Heaviest Rack for the back of his Griso! We discussed this 'Downhill Idle Stall' issue and I have a few ideas but we'll need to confirm and clarify them, hopefully 'Clancy' will be able to assist with that. The MUIG3 is an interesting device........

Pete

[beetle]

Waxi, the lambda signal is still there. The hardware still functions, but the ECU ignores it. If you were to disconnect the sensor, you would get a P0135 heater error, but not a P0130, sensor malfunction.

The P0611 is odd. That's an error code usually reserved for Diesel engines.



I furrowed my brow last night for several hours in regard to the downhill stalling. I will find a solution, but it might take some time.

[beetle]

Jim, are you sure you've found the correct connector? Can you post a pic of the end of the cable you got from Lonelec?

[Jim C]

Beetle,

Here is a pic of the connector from the bike that I found, and the following couple of pics are from
the end of the Lonelec cable, and no, I'm NOT sure I have the correct connector, but it's the only
one I found. Hope these pics help...






Obviously the middle pic is the bike connector, while the top and bottom are the inside of the Lonelec connector.

Jim