Loop frame vs. modern

[Caesars_ghost]

Hey guys, first post and a complete newb question, here. Try not to laugh too hard, ok?

I have an older, non-EFI Royal Enfield, along with bigger, more modern bikes (which are fun, but lack soul.) The Enfield is a nice enough bike in itself, but I want something different -like a Guzzi, for instance. They've been calling my name for a few years now. Here's the rub: I'd like something that I can ride daily, that's manageable in stop-and-go traffic, and still makes for a fun ride on the weekends. The two bikes that keep coming up for me are the original loop frame Ambassadors and Eldorados, and a modern V7 special or stone. (Also I like the 850T's but haven't seen as much information about these.) Assuming all things are equal, that the 1970s bikes have been well maintained and gone through, chrome cylinder issues addressed, etc., how do these bikes compare as daily rides? I haven't been able to find much comparing the clutch feel and weight, acceleration and road manners, seating position, etc.

I know the easy answer is "the 2013-16 bike will be better in almost every way, this is like comparing apples to oranges." I'd almost convinced myself to just stick to the new bike, but ...the loop frame bikes are so good looking. Can anyone who has ridden or owned both give me their thoughts on these machines?

Eric

[fotoguzzi]

for a daily driver I'd want the best brakes you can get.. drum brakes are the negative on loop frames unless you can score a 74 Eldo with disc brakes up front.

but I prefer the big block and the 850 Eldo can run with the modern stuff pretty well.
I never had a SB and don't have any desire for one..

[Rich A]

+1 on the brakes. You need to plan ahead when stopping on a loop. Also the suspension is quite primitive (as are the electrics).

Best get one (or more) of each.

Rich A

[HDGoose]

I just don't now how motorcycle riders 5-10 years older than I managed to survive riding those 70's bikes.

Buy what you like and ride it as you wish.

[not-fishing]

I was lucky enough to talk with Miguel Galluzzi last year and the comment I came away with is

It's all about the ride

.  So it's "rider know thyself" when it comes to your choice.

I also ride bicycles with my son and I find it interesting how he'll never go over 40 mph on a street bike while I'm not really uncomfortable over 60 mph.  Of course his comment is the brakes don't work on street bicycles and I tell him their a heck of a lot better than they were in the '70's (Weinmann, Campy or Gipiemme brakes).

Also I remind him that older brakes are not Stoppers they're Slowers just like the old drums in 60's and earlier cars.

[twhitaker]

I just don't now how motorcycle riders 5-10 years older than I managed to survive riding those 70's bikes.

I just added friction material to the bottom of my shoes.  Bi-annual replacement of the front brake cable helped.

[Red Dog]

In the 70's I rode a 750 Ambassador every day to work, about a 50 mile ride one way.  On the weekends I rode an 850 Police model.

In the 80's I bought an 850T and it became my daily rider.  In the 90's bought a T3.

Now I have an '89 Mille GT & a '01 Jackal that I switch back & forth on.

Only test rode a new V7 but would have no issue riding it everyday.

Buy any Guzzi & just ride it but if you buy one you will buy 2 or 3 because these bikes are addictive.

I have a 2013 Griso on the way.........

I also have a Victory Tour but it only goes out on Sundays with my wife on the back or if I have to make a long distant run.

[Testarossa]

Depends on what kind of riding you want to do. A loop with disc front brake is a relaxed touring/cruising ride. For more sporting handling go with a Tonti frame -- T, T3, T5, SP, Mille, California series, etc. This thread explains the three classes of frames:

http://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=82891.0

The chrome cylinder issue was addressed here:

http://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=48617.0

Bottom line on chrome: if a chrome-cylinder bike sat unused in a humid environment for any length of time, there's a good chance the chrome will flake and tear up the bearings. Good reason to avoid a chrome bike unless it's been converted to iron lining or nikasil, or unless it can be proven that the bike spent its entire life in dry conditions. Especially chrome bikes without oil filters (before 1975ish).

My T spent its first 10 years alongside the Hudson River, and has no oil filter, so at the first rebuild I installed nikasil for about $750 in parts.

[arveno]

If you want a guzzi , not modern, as a daily driver.
the answer is : any tonti framed bike from 1975 until 80's/90's models they all have disc brakes and carbs , some have points some have electronic ignition .
pick the one you like.
round head or square head.
plenty of bike to chose from , all virtually very similar. 

If you really want a loop, just live with drum brakes or modify them and put disc brakes, no big deal.
I take a classic guzzi to any of those plastic fantastic new models any day.

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

 :Beating_A_Dead_Hors e_by_liviu

The front drum brake can be made to work more than adequately for commuting duties without a lot of $$. In fact, they'll work better than a stock Eldo disc. The keys are:
- brakes shoes with modern friction material, arced to match the drum.
- a good quality cable (one with a tightly wound, high strand count, inner wire and outer housing wound of square section wire) with enough free length that you can position the brake arms properly.
- brake arms positioned at the correct angle, linkage adjusted correctly.

Or just buy a V1000 I-Convert and have the ultimate stop-and-go traffic commuter machine. Linked, triple discs and no shifting. 

[Aaron D.]

It is my firm belief that loop frame Guzzis are among the finest and most practical vintage rides available.

The new V7 may be very much like a smooth Enfield. Nice bike too but the loop will stay with you.

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

It is my firm belief that loop frame Guzzis are among the finest and most practical vintage rides available.

   :1:

[Cam3512]

Had fun riding my Ambo down to the MD Campout last weekend.  About 600 miles total for the trip.  I chose it over my V7 Special...

[Cool Runnings]

I just don't now how motorcycle riders 5-10 years older than I managed to survive riding those 70's bikes.

Buy what you like and ride it as you wish.

Ride a Bonneville from the 60's. 

[Testarossa]

Fix Ride a Bonneville from the 60's.

[Perazzimx14]

If you're interested I have f/s

1972 Eldorado
1975 850T
1976 T3
1977 Convert sporterized bastard project
2012 V7 Racer

and also a 2012 Royal Enfield C5

All save for the Convert are tagged and on road.

P-14

[rocker59]

Having started on "modern" bikes in the 1980s, and having ridden Loops from the '60s and '70s (and Triumphs and Nortons), I would choose a late model bike as a daily rider.

The vintage/antique bikes are cool, but motorcycling has come a long way in the past 50-years.  The old bikes don't accelerate, handle, or brake anywhere near to what a modern bike can/will do.

An example is comparing the then "top of the line" Eldorado to a now "entry level" V7 Special.  The newer entry level bike is better in just about every objective and subjective way, save for the very real vintage cred that the Eldo has and the V7 can never have.

I love antique and vintage motorcycles, but I wouldn't choose one for my daily commute...

Anyway, I have owned two late model V7s.  A 2010 V7 Classic, and a 2014 V7 Special as my "everyday / around town" bike.  It's an enjoyable retro standard that can do it all.  They're nice, affordable machines with a growing aftermarket to make your bike fit your needs.

[lazlokovacs]

I carved my way through rainy inner London traffic for 2 hours today, 2-up on my 1971 loop frame. (google royaljordanian's youtube channel for an idea of what riding in london town is like)

Plan your stops.

I think the drum brakes actually help you ride better, anticipation is all...

an old eldo/ambo is SO much better than any Enfield!

yes, you can ride one every day, they'll do anything except win races or cruise at 90mph on the superslab.

BUT, it depends on what you're prepared to put up with.

(And given the choice I'd vote for a nice 70s/80s/90s tonti for daily use.)

just my tuppence worth.

ps they are classier than any other guzzi made. AND they were designed by engineers, not bean counters and pencil pushers.

[Perazzimx14]

I carved my way through rainy inner London traffic for 2 hours today, 2-up on my 1971 loop frame. (google royaljordanian's youtube channel for an idea of what riding in london town is like)

Plan your stops.

I think the drum brakes actually help you ride better, anticipation is all...

an old eldo/ambo is SO much better than any Enfield!

yes, you can ride one every day, they'll do anything except win races or cruise at 90mph on the superslab.

BUT, it depends on what you're prepared to put up with.

(And given the choice I'd vote for a nice 70s/80s/90s tonti for daily use.)

just my tuppence worth.

ps they are classier than any other guzzi made. AND they were designed by engineers, not bean counters and pencil pushers.

I wouldn't go so far as to say the Eldo is better than a RE. They are similar in a lot of ways and different in a few. I find my RE is a slower better braked version of the Eldorado. 

[lazlokovacs]

fair enough re RE....

it was at best a wildly subjective comment!

[tpeever]

For a regular rider in modern traffic I'd go with a Tonti-framed bike with disc brakes over a loop-frame with drums. Eldo with disc up front would work too.

[charlie b]

:Beating_A_Dead_Hors e_by_liviu

The front drum brake can be made to work more than adequately for commuting duties without a lot of $$. In fact, they'll work better than a stock Eldo disc. The keys are:
- brakes shoes with modern friction material, arced to match the drum.
- a good quality cable (one with a tightly wound, high strand count, inner wire and outer housing wound of square section wire) with enough free length that you can position the brake arms properly.
- brake arms positioned at the correct angle, linkage adjusted correctly.

Or just buy a V1000 I-Convert and have the ultimate stop-and-go traffic commuter machine. Linked, triple discs and no shifting. 

Listen to Charlie.  Even better, find a loop and send it to him to fix  :)

Or, have an Uber loop made up the way Greg Field did.

[guzziownr]

I ride a "modernized" '75 Eldorado.  Disk front brake, 950cc upgraded engine.  A very pleasant commuter or vintage tourer.  I have ridden RE and applaud your bravery.

My other bike is a 2013 Griso.  On a recent ride I was following an R1 with a Tuono factory behind me so I was on the underpowered Classic bike.

[tpeever]

Forgot to add that discs from the 70's can be substantially improved by using modern pads, braided stainless lines and a smaller diameter master cylinder. I used a 13 mm Brembo master cylinder on my 850T and it made the single front disc into a pretty decent brake. Did the same to my Commando by resleeving the master cylinder from 15mm down to 13mm. Both bikes still have pretty crappy rear drums but the front disc can be made to work quite well for modern roads with some effort.

[Moto]

I also recommend a 1975-on Tonti, like a T3. If you can maintain a Royal Enfield you'll have no trouble. My own T3 has been very reliable. One thing an old bike won't do is keep you waiting for weeks while the dealer waits for warranty parts from Italy. You can get what you need quickly from domestic internet sources, or even a local Napa store in a pinch.

Moto

[Testarossa]

Forgot to add that discs from the 70's can be substantially improved by using modern pads, braided stainless lines and a smaller diameter master cylinder. I used a 13 mm Brembo master cylinder on my 850T and it made the single front disc into a pretty decent brake.

:1:

I did the same, and also upgraded to a floating rotor. Rear brake is still iffy but I can always stop with confidence.

[injundave]

I have a 1975 T3. It has nikasil cylinders and Dyna3 ignition as the only major deviations from stock. It performs well in modern conditions, has plenty of power and even more plenty of torque, corners easily and steadily and the brakes are good. They could be better but I haven't spent the money yet. I have yet to see a modern Guzzi that I like as much. The T3 is cheap to buy and easy and cheap to get bits for. They are also very simple and easy to work on.

Find the right one and you can't go wrong.

[Sasquatch Jim]

  Nearly all older bikes of most makes have frames that are more compatible with sidecar attachment.

[cwiseman]

There isnt any reason a loop can't be a great daily rider. The best brakes on a loop frame is engine breaking. The drum brakes take some getting used to but work fine for normal riding but might get you in trouble if an emergency stop is needed.
Love my old Eldo and if I could only have one bike it might just be the one that had to stay above all others.

[Chuck in Indiana]

Charlie is one of the absolute best and loves loops. I had a V700, and couldn't make that front brake work to *my* satisfaction. 
Craig said it..

The drum brakes take some getting used to but work fine for normal riding but might get you in trouble if an emergency stop is needed.

I've had a couple of times where I was on the front wheel with it howling in SoCal traffic on the Mighty Scura. No loop brakes will do that.
I'll chime in with the guys that say T3 and later. All are similar, triple discs, that great Guzzi engine, character in spades.