Bagger

[Chuck in Indiana]

Yeah, I was looking for mixture to make sure I wasn't going to blow it up. He stuck sniffers in both exhausts and did a run. He said he'd never seen a carb bike do so well. I'd rather be lucky than good. 

[pete roper]

Imagine the V9 motive package in something like that with a perimeter type frame a-la Griso, a reactive, rising rate rear suspension system and real 21'st century forks?

Now imagine it with a Hi-Cam, 8V top end, sensible wheels and tyres.

Gimme 75-80 HP, a torque curve like a VW beetle bonnet and a reasonable weight and I couldn't shit enough coin to get one in the garage!

Pete

[Chuck in Indiana]

Imagine the V9 motive package in something like that with a perimeter type frame a-la Griso, a reactive, rising rate rear suspension system and real 21'st century forks?

Now imagine it with a Hi-Cam, 8V top end, sensible wheels and tyres.

Gimme 75-80 HP, a torque curve like a VW beetle bonnet and a reasonable weight and I couldn't shit enough coin to get one in the garage!

Pete

Yeah, my Skorpion is pretty much that, minus the Guzzi drivetrain. It's a remarkably good handling bike, but the powerplant is boring.
After all, the Ippogriffo prototype of the mid to late 90s was world class at the time, and they didn't build it. Who knows what goes on in the mind of Guzzi? 

[pete roper]

Thing is the CARC, while heavy, is considerably lighter than the V11 final drive package which is what the Ippo was going to use.

Look at the Ippo and you can see it's essentially the four shaft V11 box and final drive mated to a Hemi-head smallblock. While that ticked all the right boxes WRT parts communality it made bugger all sense in terms of manufacturing economy or performance.

Put simply, everything behind the motor was far too f***ing big!

I'm not suggesting that a CARC rear end on a smallblock, (At least the current one!) would be any different. It would be gross over-engineering! But a variant scaled down and used with a modern frame and suspension would, at least with me, make a bit of wee escape!

Pete

[LaMojo]

Yep... You did an excellent job on her.

[Chuck in Indiana]

Yep... You did an excellent job on her.

Thanks, but as Pete says.. it is an antique motorcycle. It's a *lot* of fun, though, and does well for what it is. I haven't gotten around to putting a "real" fork brace on it, but I will.  Pete's (and my) problem with the new Roamer and Bobber is that they really aren't any more "modern" than the 80s Lario. I was hoping for a V9 LeMans, not just a rehash of what they've been doing since the early 80s. <shrug>

[pete roper]

Thanks, but as Pete says.. it is an antique motorcycle. It's a *lot* of fun, though, and does well for what it is. I haven't gotten around to putting a "real" fork brace on it, but I will.  Pete's (and my) problem with the new Roamer and Bobber is that they really aren't any more "modern" than the 80s Lario. I was hoping for a V9 LeMans, not just a rehash of what they've been doing since the early 80s. <shrug>

Exactly. But it doesn't matter how often you say it the response is always a huge pyroclastic flow of dim-witted, trolling absurdity! Be it from those who think the world stopped before the first 747 flew commercially or those who want Guzzi to simply be a refference point to that non existant epoch!

GAKK!

Pete

[Chuck in Indiana]

"pyroclastic"  :) As usual, your command of the Queen's English overpowers mine.. :thumbs:

Emoticons just quit working on chrome again..

[Xlratr]

Exactly. But it doesn't matter how often you say it the response is always a huge pyroclastic flow of dim-witted, trolling absurdity! Be it from those who think the world stopped before the first 747 flew commercially or those who want Guzzi to simply be a refference point to that non existant epoch!

GAKK!

Pete

There's no right or wrong when it comes to motorcycle design and specification. It's just a question of preference and personal taste. Some people like cruisers, others like sport bikes. Some like hi tech, others like classic. And why not?
I think that a V9 Le Mans would probably be a very nice motorcycle but it doesn't mean it would be "better" than a V9 Roamer.
The V9 is "for me" a well designed motorcycle at an attractive price point. It appeals "to me" and I like to think that doesn't necessarily make me dimwitted or a luddite ;-).
People waiting for a sportier Guzzi may of course be disappointed, and I hope for them that one will come. Then we can all be happy! :-)

[Chuck in Indiana]

There's no right or wrong when it comes to motorcycle design and specification. It's just a question of preference and personal taste. Some people like cruisers, others like sport bikes. Some like hi tech, others like classic. And why not?
I think that a V9 Le Mans would probably be a very nice motorcycle but it doesn't mean it would be "better" than a V9 Roamer.
The V9 is "for me" a well designed motorcycle at an attractive price point. It appeals "to me" and I like to think that doesn't necessarily make me dimwitted or a luddite ;-).
People waiting for a sportier Guzzi may of course be disappointed, and I hope for them that one will come. Then we can all be happy! :-)

Well, maybe Pete *did* go a little overboard with his vent, but how else are you going to work pyroclastic flow into a sentence?  <shrug>

[Xlratr]

...but how else are you going to work pyroclastic flow into a sentence?  <shrug>

Good point!  :-)
And maybe Pete just needs to ride one and then tell us what he REALLY thinks about it! ;-)

[pete roper]

I have ridden one. My first Guzzi was one, it was called a V50-II! This is the thing, in chassis terms so little has changed between then and now I know that the *New* models will behave very similarly to the *Old* models apart from the fact they now have stupid wheel and tyre sizes that are there for stylistic purposes and will make them handle worse!

Pete

[Chuck in Indiana]

I have ridden one. My first Guzzi was one, it was called a V50-II! This is the thing, in chassis terms so little has changed between then and now I know that the *New* models will behave very similarly to the *Old* models apart from the fact they now have stupid wheel and tyre sizes that are there for stylistic purposes and will make them handle worse!

Pete

Yeah, honestly, I think the 500 cc Monza would be the equal of one. I guess the people that buy the new V7 really don't care, though, and that's fine with me as long as it keeps Guzzi afloat. Speaking of floating.. how about that bat sickle barge? 

[Xlratr]

I have ridden one. My first Guzzi was one, it was called a V50-II! This is the thing, in chassis terms so little has changed between then and now I know that the *New* models will behave very similarly to the *Old* models apart from the fact they now have stupid wheel and tyre sizes that are there for stylistic purposes and will make them handle worse!

Pete

That's like saying a modern car won't handle any better than an 80s model because they all have 4 wheels and 4 shock absorbers. I didn't read any comments about vintage style handling in the V9 reviews so far. But I'll wait and see before coming to my own conclusions.

But that's not the point I was making. The V9 may not be "your" motorbike Pete, but it may well be exactly what "somebody else" has been waiting for. The visual properties of a motorcycle are very important to a lot of people, and if somebody likes fat tyres, well that's fine too...! . There is no right or wrong, but the commercial success or otherwise will indicate to what extent the tastes of the target customer have been met. I like the V9, it appeals to me, and I think maybe to a lot of other people too. I hope so anyway.
"I" think it's a cool motorbike.

Sorry Chuck, this is your Bagger thread! Didn't want to turn it into another V9 love/hate thing!

[Chuck in Indiana]

Sorry Chuck, this is your Bagger thread! Didn't want to turn it into another V9 love/hate thing!

No problem, John. 

[pete roper]

That's like saying a modern car won't handle any better than an 80s model because they all have 4 wheels and 4 shock absorbers. I didn't read any comments about vintage style handling in the V9 reviews so far. But I'll wait and see before coming to my own conclusions.

But that's not the point I was making. The V9 may not be "your" motorbike Pete, but it may well be exactly what "somebody else" has been waiting for. The visual properties of a motorcycle are very important to a lot of people, and if somebody likes fat tyres, well that's fine too...! . There is no right or wrong, but the commercial success or otherwise will indicate to what extent the tastes of the target customer have been met. I like the V9, it appeals to me, and I think maybe to a lot of other people too. I hope so anyway.
"I" think it's a cool motorbike.

If you've ridden a modern smallblock John you'll know how mediocre the stock suspension is. In a lot of ways the suspension on a V50 was better! Really though if they sell by the boatload that's fine, I have zero problem with that. I just resent that Guzzi is seemingly being relegated to being the manufacturer of only cruisers and stylised accessories.

Pete

[bad Chad]

Pushed out the Aero Lario and was getting suited up to go use up the last of the rear tire. That's two for the Aero engine.
It just struck me. Dang! That's a good looking Sport touring bike. 
2016-05-13_04-15-39 by Charles Stottlemyer, on Flickr

"It just struck me..."   Yea sure Chuck!  Like you haven't been lusting after its well defined, athletic, yet clearly sensuous lines for weeks!   You are a gratuitous pig, and you flaunt your sexy steed at us as if we were  mere teenagers, stuck in old lady Sherman's English class for the afternoon!

Enjoy you Dick bastard!!

[cruzziguzzi]

Too bad Guzzi doesn't take note.

What an offering that would make.


Todd.

[pete roper]

Too bad Guzzi doesn't take note.

What an offering that would make.


Todd.

It's a bit hard to make out from the spare parts pages but it looks to me like it would be possible to take a 'Bobber' or 'Roamer' and put 'Baby Breva' wheels on it without too many problems. The wheel mounting and drive system looks very similar. If you could do that you'd get the benefit of modern tyre profiles without the 'Fairground Attraction' look of the factory offerings. Then as long as you can live with a compratively small tank and the rather rudimentary suspension you'd be very close to what Chuck has but with the wonderfully simple MUIG-3 control system.

Pete

[Muzz]

but it looks to me like it would be possible to take a 'Bobber' or 'Roamer' and put 'Baby Breva' wheels on it without too many problems. The wheel mounting and drive system looks very similar. If you could do that you'd get the benefit of modern tyre profiles without the 'Fairground Attraction' look of the factory offerings.
Pete

No, ya can't have it to experiment with Pete! 

Chuck, that is one stunningly gorgeous bike. An absolute credit to your vision and ingenuity. 

[pete roper]

Well, as it happens I'm looking at buying a Baby Breva so that Michael doesn't have to keep riding the 'Gayest Bike in the Vilage', (An aquamarine KLR 250!) as the B750 is 'Learner Approved'.

If that happens the real temptation is to buy a V9, throw the crap bits I hate away and build what the factory won't! Real front forks, a cantilever rear end, (Not going to force the issue and go rising rate.) and real wheels. When Michael can ride his Griso I can canibalise the Breva for *Almost Modern* parts!

Trevor's CV joint conversion idea made a bit of wee come out!

Should be ready just about the time the Griso gets too heavy for me! 

Pete

[Muzz]

 

I await with interest. 

[Chuck in Indiana]

Well..uh...Chad.. Thanks, I think.  Todd, Muzz, Thanks! 
Pete..

Trevor's CV joint conversion idea made a bit of wee come out!

Me, too. Cool idea. It *appears* that we will have to build our own sporty Guzzis. I hope not.

[kidsmoke]

allow me to pile on a bit.





man, did this bike sound good on that dyno video...

[Chuck in Indiana]

Thanks, Kip! When I took it out for the first ride, I pulled out on the highway, gave it a lot of throttle to get the ring's attention,  and backed off to oil the cylinder walls. The sound right then.. as Pete says, made a little wee come out.  It *is* a bitchin engine, and gives me a grin every time I light it off.

[kidsmoke]

Thanks, Kip! When I took it out for the first ride, I pulled out on the highway, gave it a lot of throttle to get the ring's attention,  and backed off to oil the cylinder walls. The sound right then.. as Pete says, made a little wee come out.  It *is* a bitchin engine, and gives me a grin every time I light it off.

sure that wasn't just the wound weeping?

[Chuck in Indiana]

sure that wasn't just the wound weeping?

Naw, that was before all the spots of bother. 

[Idontwantapickle]

I gotta wonder......wouldn't a V9 with the Lario bodywork be a goal to work toward? As Pete says it's just a rehash. But when life give you lemons, make a Lemans! 

Hunter

[Chuck in Indiana]

make a Lemans! 

I TOLE them to do that, but did they listen? Noooo..

[Xlratr]

..... the real temptation is to buy a V9, throw the crap bits I hate away and build what the factory won't! ..

That actually sounds like a great project Pete.